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IV DMT? Options
 
ranvier
#1 Posted : 12/20/2008 8:05:21 PM
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From a hypothetical standpoint, at least to my thinking, the benefits of using DMT intravenously are numerous. The trip is said to be about twice the duration of smoked DMT. For those who have experienced the smoking method, it's obviously quite damaging to the lungs. In addition, intravenous use would allow the administration of accurately measured doses, which could hopefully be much larger than the 3 or 4 lungfuls smoking permits. I'm curious to realize a state of "too much" DMT, similar to the experiences described in Rick Strassman's book The Spirit Molecule. Perhaps some of the chemists on this forum could describe the best way of preparing an injectable solution (ideally written out for someone totally ignorant of needle use), probably using DMT fumarate obtained through the FASA method?
 

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Jorkest
#2 Posted : 12/20/2008 8:23:57 PM

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SWIY would want to make sure that it was extremely pure...and possibly use a filter of some kind
it's a sound
 
69ron
#3 Posted : 12/20/2008 11:08:34 PM

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You'd want 98%+ purity, and it must be USP grade DMT. And you need to adjust the pH to that of your blood. You'd also want to use a filter that can filter out all bacteria and similar contaminants, and use a sterile needle of course.

I wouldn't mess around with it. It's too risky for the non professional.
PLEASE DO NOT PM ME.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
Nanaki
#4 Posted : 12/21/2008 3:18:06 AM

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It might hit as quick as smoking it, but smoking is so much less prep work, and doesn't hurt as much. SWIM doesn't like needles a whole lot. Plus, he's exploring more the oral method because he wants much longer lasting experiences.
Nanaki, of course is a fictional video game character. He never does drugs that would alter consciousness. He only thinks he does.
 
bufoman
#5 Posted : 12/21/2008 4:13:09 AM

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Check out Strassman's studies with IV DMT injection. It is reported that the effects get pretty intense rather fast (depending on dose of course). The high dose in his study was .4mg/kg. Thus for a 160 pound man a dose of about 29 mg was used. This created almost overwhelming effects with complete disconnection with the ongoing reality with the entrance into the "alien" landscapes of the mind (or whatever one believes). Half this amount .2mg/kg would still produce very intense significant effects.
Again one would not want to inject oneself as the rapid effects may imped the ability to withdraw the needle causing damage. Thus have a friend who knows what they are doing such as a doctor or vet. One who knows what they are doing could "Probably" handle IVing the lower doses themselves. The purity is also a serious issue, several recrystallizations with hexane should be preformed until the product appears virtual free of any impurities (check by melting point and TLC if possible or burn a small amount and look for a clean burn with no residues). The salt would then have to be made from the freebase, I'm not sure which salt would be best. The HCL is difficult to crystallize but as a solution wouldn't be hard to make. Do some research. Sterile saline solution should be used for the injection and the solution should be filtered as 69ron said. Use ethyl alcohol to sterilize all equipment and injection site. This would be an incredible experience if one has not check out the reports in Strassman's patients.
 
Spacehippie
#6 Posted : 12/21/2008 5:18:54 AM

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You should check out this link.
DMT HCl I.V.Experiments
Once in a while you get shone the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
 
ranvier
#7 Posted : 12/22/2008 9:56:32 PM
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Thanks for the extremely interesting link, spacehippie. Though, I'm quite hesitant at the thought of HCl in my, er, FOAF's arm... having watched the corrosive power of muriatic acid on the surface of concrete.

I'm not so sure purity is as anally important as most here indicate. If they would read the above link in full, they'll notice beardedlady mentions using somewhat yellow DMT, recrystallized only once. Several recrystallizations would be done for my near dear FOAF, of course.

I was thinking, there must be a simple way to make (extracted) DMT fumarate, had through the FASA method, into a saline solution... though FOAF has no knowledge of needles, he'd much rather start with the Spirit Molecule than with heroin, for example. But perhaps the uses parallel each other?

A pity 69ron doesn't want to spill the spicy beans, since he's about the only one who indicated he knows how in some of his other posts... infundibulum maybe? If not, guess I'll ask on mycotopia, thanks again.
 
bufoman
#8 Posted : 12/22/2008 10:09:51 PM

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Purity being an issue depends. You can shoot anything you want, must likely a small amount of impurity in the spice shouldn't be to bad but you never know, treat your body like the temple it is.
If you want to know how to specifically shoot up here you go:
Use size 27 1/2 gauge needle (insulin needle). Do not use any larger than this as smaller gauge as this will seriuosly damage your veins (I have seen people do it not pretty). Use a tornicate to cut off circulation above the site for injection. This will block blood flow and cause the veins to be more visible. Take the needle slowly but steadily insert it into the vein at a slight angle this will help it go in smoothly. (Make sure no air bubbles are present in the solution although this is disputed as not to be a big a deal as some assume just to be safe avoid them) Pull up on the plunger, blood should be drawn into the chamber if a vein is properly hit, if no blood you missed the vein pull it out and try again. If the vein has been hit slowly push down on the plunger, once finished take off the tornicate then slowly remove the needle taking care not to damage the vein. Use alcohol to sterilize everything including the injection site. Again it would prob be best to have someone do it for you especially with DMT but to each his own.
 
SyZyGyPSy
#9 Posted : 12/24/2008 3:55:34 PM
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Yeah purity's really not that big a deal, at least not in terms of posing a serious threat (though it may "color" the experience... Swim notices a huge difference btwn limonene and petroleum-extracted spice when smoking it, he's convinced the molecule responds to how it's handled, affecting the quality of the experience).
Swim hates to admit it, but he shot plenty of meth back in his dumber daze. Some of it was really nasty-ass bathtub crank that certainly was not purified to any kind of standards at all. He never used alcohol to clean the injection site, never checked the pH of anything. And he's still alive. Not saying try this at home - DON'T!- but it is an example of the resiliancy of the human body.
Realistic-ally, if he were to attempt a spice injection today (which he has toyed with the idea of, but has so far avoided if for no other reason than he hates the thought of all the old junkie associations being the last thing on his mind as he rockets into hyperspace, much like how he hates smoking spice out of a crackpipe for the same reasons), in light of his previous experience from the junky daze, here's how he would go about it:
Assuming you have fb spice:
first, acidify it into salt form. How you do this is not that big a deal. Plenty of cokeheads everywhere use vinegar or lemon juice to break down crack, which is fb coke, into cocaine acetate or cocaine citrate salts and shoot 'em like that. Which is nasty as fuck, don't get me wrong... lemon juice is really harsh when tasted from within (oh yeah by the way you taste whatever you shoot as the blood containing it reaches your tongue, it's weird). But the point is they do it all the time. If Swim were to do it, with fb spice, he would probly put 23mg in a spoon, add a few drops of vine gar, stir it around with the plunger until it dissolved, then let the gar evaporate to reveal a goo. He would then dissolve this goo in say 23 units of hot distilled water, again stirring with the plunger of the syringe. Then he would pull off a small piece of cotton from a q-tip, roll it into a ball, toss the ball into the spoon so that it sux up the water, press the tip of his insulin syringe into the cotton, and draw up the solution through the cotton ball, being careful not to get any cotton fibres into the needle (these suck if they go into yer arm). Then, being an experienced vein-hitter, he feels confident that he could hit himself and inject all the soln fast enough before he lost his yarbles, though he would have some plan in mind for a safe place to set the needle down without bothering to fumble with trying to get the cap on first cuz that probly wouldn't happen. If'n you're inexperienced with shooting up, maybe practice with some water first or something, or better yet find some junky off the streets and have him do it for you (he he he...).
Realistically tho, if Swim were to do this, he probly would not use fb spice. Swim makes an aqueous solution of acetic salts of deemster and jungle spice that he uses in conjunction with fb harmaloids for his oral ceremonies. He does this by pulling with limonene as the np, then salting out into vinegar which is evaporated to reveal a goo which is then redissolved into hot distilled h2o. He has often toyed with the idea of simply sucking up 23 units of this medicine into a rig and blasting it, perhaps after consuming some harmaloids.
Of course vine gar leaves behind some residue when it evaps, which would leave a nasty acetic taste from the inside of your mouth. But obviously shooting vine gar doesn't kill you cuz crackheads do it all the time. So Swim, being lazy, would probly just deal with it. But if you wanted extra purity you could of course use glacial acetic acid or something else. FASA spice would probly work... however Swim is skeptickal of ace-tone as he once did an evap test with ace hardware extra strength acetone and it left behind a bunch of nasty looking residue that he would NOT want to put in his arm! Ugh...
On the other hand, he has no problem shooting a little limonene and vinegar rezidoo, these are all natural enough for his standardz.
Hope that helps. Lemme know if someone who isn't you ever worx up the ballz to actually try this. Again there's no real risk of physical danger from this as long as you're in good health... just don't miss the vein! An abscess could form from this, plus it burns like hell, plus you're wasting spice... IM doesn't work nearly as well as IV for spice absorption.
The Ultimate Secret of the Universe is that there is no Ultimate Secret of the Universe... there's just a bunch of stuff that happens.
 
Faust
#10 Posted : 1/23/2009 11:35:46 PM

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Good info here; http://www.dmt-nexus.me/...aspx?g=posts&t=1521

acolon_5 wrote:
D_Juggz wrote:
Hello, I only just found these forums otherwise i would have been on here years ago.
SWIM is a medical student who would like to know if DMT extracted under sterile conditions using these internet methods would be pure enough if it was in crystal form to dissolve in saline or something to inject intravenously?
Has anyone had any experience with this? i've been reading "DMT: The spirit molecule" and in there it is mentioned that "o.6 mg/kg" is "too much" and "0.4 mg/kg" was used in their study as a safe level.
I know its a little risky because SWIMS DMT would not me isolated under lab conditions and probably with not with a 100% solvents.

Any comments?


Please remember that the study was using DMT fumarate. So the numbers used were not for freebase. I believe a decent IV dose is around 15-20mgs freebase.

If you or someone you know is contemplating IV'ing DMT might I suggest a few things.

1) Do an A/B extraction!!!! This keeps the oils to a minimum. STB is fine for vaporization, but I would not even consider using STB spice for IV use. You may even consider doing an A/B on your end product again to purify it even further, but this is really optional.

2) Do a DEFAT while in the acidic stage. This is really important. 2-3 pulls with naphtha, toulene, xylene, or heptane are sufficient. You really want all oils to be removed.

3) Do at least 2 recrystalizations. At least one of these should be a freeze precipitate as it results in a cleaner product and no NPS residue.

4) Make SURE that your spice is crystal clear. No yellow, orange, brown, or any other color spice should be going in a vein.

Make sure your DMT solution is a reasonable pH, you don't want to be shooting up a solution with a pH of 2!!!


About the filter:
Infundibulum wrote:
For IV injection, dmt fumarate that has been generated by the FASA method is perfectly OK to use. There is no needs for defatting, recrystallisations or use of nasty solvents or anything someone wouldn't want when injecting. The FASA will give straight pure dmt-fumarate from an A/B or STB almost ready to be used. Seriously no complications involved.

Acolon, either phosphoric acid or HCl can be dodgy to use since one does not have a method of calculating the dose accurately. Both salts are hygroscopic. Titration of freebase with phosphoric acid might work though.

SWIM's FOAF would:

1) extract dmt in fumarate form using FASA

2)wash the salt 3-4 times with acetone, then let it dry.

3)measure dose and dissolve in saline solution. 1 ml final solution is generally fine for injections

Now, a good osmolarity of the solution is critical otherwise one may cause harm to him/herself. Hence the almost mandatory presence of saline in the injection. The safest thing would be to use an osmometer and calculate osmotic pressure, otherwise go with the standard saline solutions medical students have easy access to.

Even if one misses an optimal osmolarity (remember, dissolving dmt-fumarate in saline increases the osmolarity of the saline solution), injecting 1 ml (in our 2 litres of blood) gives a good safety margin over suboptimal osmolarity checks.

EDIT: I forgot the most important - sterility:

It is close to impossible to make the whole extraction under sterile conditions. But what one may do is to run the dmt fumarate + saline solution through a 0.2micrometer pore size filter (again should be easy to get esp. if one's a medic.). It will retain almost all of the bacteria and other pathogenic organisms. It is quite a common and fairly effective method of sterilisation if one does not want to autoclave the solution amidst fears of dmt degradation in the high temperatures autoclaves work.


associativum wrote:
I would suggest everyone to use sterile membrane Filters instead of Cigarette Filters Pleased .

They shouldnt be too expensive, just a little hard to get , they are often used in Bio laboratories , for sterilizing heat sensitive antibiotics solutions for example.

They are these Round attachment with a membrane in the middle , you just put them onto the Syringe and suck the liquid through the membrane.











"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants" - Sir Isaac Newton

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.


 
SyZyGyPSy
#11 Posted : 2/3/2009 8:54:44 PM
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Synchronistically, a few daze after Swim read this post, a friend of his brought up the same thing. Swim half-jokingly said "bring me some rigs and I'll make it happen." Well sure enough the next day the friend showed up with a couple ten packs of 1/2cc insulin syringes. Swim had just finished preparing a batch... here's the tek in a nutshell: crock pot cook of powdered mhrb in 50/50 vinegar/distilled water for a few hours, basified with NaOH, pulled several times with d-limonene and salted out with vinegar. Combined vinegar pulls were defatted 2x with limo, rebasified and re-extracted into some clean limo, then salted back out into more vinegar to ensure absolute purity. Vinegar was evaporated revealing goo which was redissolved into 1 ounce of hot water and placed in an eyedropper bottle. 1ml of this solution was evaporated, scraped up on a razor blade, and smeared into a gelcap that had previously been weighed. The cap was weighed again after, and the weight had increased by roughly 23 centigrams. So Swim had roughly 230mg/ml. Doing the math on this, he determined that 10 units in the syringe should contain 23mg, which seems to be a good dose. Wanting to be safe, he drew up 9 units and handed the rig to his friend, who proceeded to inject it. It seemed to come on rather slowly, he watched his friend look fairly normal for long enough that he wondered if something had gone wrong, then his friend closed his eyes, sank back in his seat, and stayed gone for roughly a half hour. He eventually curled up in the fetal position at exactly t+23min, and after he opened his eyes and began speaking again, reported a very good experience. When asked if he went to hyperspace, he reported that "no, it was more like it came here." This is very typical of mixtures that include jungle spice. He said there were beings asking him questions, but he couldn't remember what they were asking him. He totally recommended it, saying "this is the way to do it."
So then Swim decided to try it a few daze later. Not to be outdone, he drew up 11 units. He then cleared a space (Swim does this kind of thing ritualisticly, having some understanding of just what he's getting into) and proceeded with the injection.
Now here's the deal... Swim does this kind of thing with a spiritual intent. His friend was just looking for kicks. Swim has a familiar entity that comes to him whenever he does dmt, it's kind of like a guardian or something. When Swim breaks thru, it is this entity that "rips" a hole in the fabric of reality and takes swim to wherever he's going, if that makes sense. There have been times when Swim did not break thru, but this entity came and operated on his etheric field... apparently that was what he needed those times. Well this time the entity came, but it did not operate on him... instead it seemed to be just sort of checking him out. Swim is always placed in a state of utmost awe and reverence when in the presence of this entity, it is very "humbling." Well Swim found himself asking it "Is this ok? Is what I'm doing ok?" Swim can only assume it must not have been, because after checking him out, the entity vanished, leaving Swim with absolutely nothing. That's right... one minute it felt like it was coming on strong, albiet a bit slower than when smoked... then the next minute Swim was practically back to baseline. He could still feel the presence of the molecule in him, but there wre no "psychedelic effects." Swim has experienced this before, the "breakthru denied" phenomenon. It seems to happen when something is spiritually blocking him from entering hyperspace. In this case he assumed it to be the fact that whatever spirit(s) is/are watching over him did not approve of this method of administration. As such, Swim has decided not to repeat the experiment, at least for the time being. Swim felt rather dirty during the whole thing, as it brought back old junkie associations. He thought to himself... "what are you trying to do? Get everyone shooting dmt? That's not the reputation this stuff needs to have..."
Granted, Strassman's volunteers reported amazing results. But there seems to be something about smoking it, it requires an act of willpower to break thru... with shooting it, not so much. There seems to be something dishonorable about this. It's hard to say for sure based off of one experience, but Swim did not feel good about shooting dmt, and he doesn't want to try it again for not wanting to piss off his guardian. So I won't tell you not to try it, and I can definitely tell you the method outlined above is safe (physically). But if you're coming to dmt for spiritual purposes, this may not be the way to approach it. Of course your entities may see it differently. This is not meant to discourage you from your own experimentation, only to inform you of what happened to swim when he tried it, and what his conclusions are.
Best of luck, whatever route you choose!

-Syzygy Psy

PS another possibility has occured since then... Swim put it in his right arm, having blown out the main vein in his left arm back in the junkie daze. Anyway there is some slight chance that this may account for the difference in effects, as he's pretty sure that the left arm vein gets to the brain a lot quicker. Could be that in Swim's case the dmt got a pass at the liver first, which may have metabolised it. But he doubts that is the case... he's pretty sure the issue was spiritual in nature, not physical.
The Ultimate Secret of the Universe is that there is no Ultimate Secret of the Universe... there's just a bunch of stuff that happens.
 
Faust
#12 Posted : 2/12/2009 10:38:44 PM

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SyZyGyPSy wrote:
...snip...
PS another possibility has occured since then... Swim put it in his right arm, having blown out the main vein in his left arm back in the junkie daze. Anyway there is some slight chance that this may account for the difference in effects, as he's pretty sure that the left arm vein gets to the brain a lot quicker. Could be that in Swim's case the dmt got a pass at the liver first, which may have metabolised it. But he doubts that is the case... he's pretty sure the issue was spiritual in nature, not physical.

I don't know man, but I am pretty sure left arm and right arm present a significant difference in the path of blood around the body. That may be why it was reported the trip was back to baseline quickly, as opposed to the FOAF with a 20+ minute trip.

How many units did you draw into the syringe?
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants" - Sir Isaac Newton

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.


 
SyZyGyPSy
#13 Posted : 2/18/2009 6:00:24 PM
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If you read the post closely, you'll note that Swim drew up 11 units, as opposed to 9 that his FOAF shot.
Hard to say for sure... guess the only way to tell would be to try 11 units in the left arm (there's still plenty of other veins "left" there, no pun intended) and try it again. Dunno if Swim's up for that tho, but I'll try to talk him into it some time.
Also for what it's worth Swim smoked a few hours after that and broke thru on two good long rips. So it's not like there was some strange metabolic anomaly going on with him that day or anything. It's still kinda hard to believe that left vs right coulda made THAT big a difference, but I guess it's possible. What's weird is that he felt it coming on and then it just stopped... as opposed to just not coming on.
The Ultimate Secret of the Universe is that there is no Ultimate Secret of the Universe... there's just a bunch of stuff that happens.
 
Faust
#14 Posted : 2/19/2009 4:42:19 AM

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Oh I see Shocked I suggest using paragraphs or hitting the enter key a couple of times just to break up your posts and make them less eye-bleedingly large wall of text. What it looks like is a turbocharged clusterfuck mode of letters and punctuation.

SyZyGyPSy wrote:
Synchronistically, a few daze after Swim read this post, a friend of his brought up the same thing. Swim half-jokingly said "bring me some rigs and I'll make it happen." Well sure enough the next day the friend showed up with a couple ten packs of 1/2cc insulin syringes. Swim had just finished preparing a batch... here's the tek in a nutshell: crock pot cook of powdered mhrb in 50/50 vinegar/distilled water for a few hours, basified with NaOH, pulled several times with d-limonene and salted out with vinegar.

Combined vinegar pulls were defatted 2x with limo, rebasified and re-extracted into some clean limo, then salted back out into more vinegar to ensure absolute purity. Vinegar was evaporated revealing goo which was redissolved into 1 ounce of hot water and placed in an eyedropper bottle. 1ml of this solution was evaporated, scraped up on a razor blade, and smeared into a gelcap that had previously been weighed. The cap was weighed again after, and the weight had increased by roughly 23 centigrams.

So Swim had roughly 230mg/ml. Doing the math on this, he determined that 10 units in the syringe should contain 23mg, which seems to be a good dose. Wanting to be safe, he drew up 9 units and handed the rig to his friend, who proceeded to inject it. It seemed to come on rather slowly, he watched his friend look fairly normal for long enough that he wondered if something had gone wrong, then his friend closed his eyes, sank back in his seat, and stayed gone for roughly a half hour. He eventually curled up in the fetal position at exactly t+23min, and after he opened his eyes and began speaking again, reported a very good experience. When asked if he went to hyperspace, he reported that "no, it was more like it came here." This is very typical of mixtures that include jungle spice. He said there were beings asking him questions, but he couldn't remember what they were asking him. He totally recommended it, saying "this is the way to do it."
So then Swim decided to try it a few daze later. Not to be outdone, he drew up 11 units. He then cleared a space (Swim does this kind of thing ritualisticly, having some understanding of just what he's getting into) and proceeded with the injection.

Now here's the deal... Swim does this kind of thing with a spiritual intent. His friend was just looking for kicks. Swim has a familiar entity that comes to him whenever he does dmt, it's kind of like a guardian or something. When Swim breaks thru, it is this entity that "rips" a hole in the fabric of reality and takes swim to wherever he's going, if that makes sense. There have been times when Swim did not break thru, but this entity came and operated on his etheric field... apparently that was what he needed those times.

Well this time the entity came, but it did not operate on him... instead it seemed to be just sort of checking him out. Swim is always placed in a state of utmost awe and reverence when in the presence of this entity, it is very "humbling." Well Swim found himself asking it "Is this ok? Is what I'm doing ok?" Swim can only assume it must not have been, because after checking him out, the entity vanished, leaving Swim with absolutely nothing. That's right... one minute it felt like it was coming on strong, albiet a bit slower than when smoked... then the next minute Swim was practically back to baseline. He could still feel the presence of the molecule in him, but there wre no "psychedelic effects." Swim has experienced this before, the "breakthru denied" phenomenon. It seems to happen when something is spiritually blocking him from entering hyperspace. In this case he assumed it to be the fact that whatever spirit(s) is/are watching over him did not approve of this method of administration. As such, Swim has decided not to repeat the experiment, at least for the time being. Swim felt rather dirty during the whole thing, as it brought back old junkie associations. He thought to himself... "what are you trying to do? Get everyone shooting dmt? That's not the reputation this stuff needs to have..."

Granted, Strassman's volunteers reported amazing results. But there seems to be something about smoking it, it requires an act of willpower to break thru... with shooting it, not so much. There seems to be something dishonorable about this. It's hard to say for sure based off of one experience, but Swim did not feel good about shooting dmt, and he doesn't want to try it again for not wanting to piss off his guardian. So I won't tell you not to try it, and I can definitely tell you the method outlined above is safe (physically). But if you're coming to dmt for spiritual purposes, this may not be the way to approach it. Of course your entities may see it differently. This is not meant to discourage you from your own experimentation, only to inform you of what happened to swim when he tried it, and what his conclusions are.
Best of luck, whatever route you choose!

-Syzygy Psy

PS another possibility has occured since then... Swim put it in his right arm, having blown out the main vein in his left arm back in the junkie daze. Anyway there is some slight chance that this may account for the difference in effects, as he's pretty sure that the left arm vein gets to the brain a lot quicker. Could be that in Swim's case the dmt got a pass at the liver first, which may have metabolised it. But he doubts that is the case... he's pretty sure the issue was spiritual in nature, not physical.


How does that look? Very happy
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants" - Sir Isaac Newton

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.


 
SyZyGyPSy
#15 Posted : 2/23/2009 3:54:08 PM
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Ah yes much better. Apologies for the unlcear text, I'll try to remember to do that in the future.
Thanks for the pointer!
The Ultimate Secret of the Universe is that there is no Ultimate Secret of the Universe... there's just a bunch of stuff that happens.
 
lowjackal
#16 Posted : 5/15/2009 6:39:11 AM

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I'd pass on IV use until I found a qualified Strassman-like figure to acurately purify and weigh out the dosage. I cant stick a needle into my veins for the life of me. Remember the saline after shot flush too.
"Keep your friends close and your enemies dismembered."
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SWIMfriend
#17 Posted : 5/15/2009 7:54:01 AM

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Faust wrote:
...I don't know man, but I am pretty sure left arm and right arm present a significant difference in the path of blood around the body...


No. The pathway is the same: ALL venous blood from the head, neck, and arms flows together into the superior vena cava...
 
Faust
#18 Posted : 5/19/2009 6:52:31 AM

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SWIMfriend wrote:
Faust wrote:
...I don't know man, but I am pretty sure left arm and right arm present a significant difference in the path of blood around the body...


No. The pathway is the same: ALL venous blood from the head, neck, and arms flows together into the superior vena cava...

I see, good to know, it certainly makes sense when I think about it so thanks for enlightening me Very happy
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SyZyGyPSy
#19 Posted : 5/19/2009 9:43:18 PM
Tryptophilese Metaphysticus Anomalopteris III


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Well there you have it then. No "scientific" reason why 11 units shouldn't have sent Swim to the same place that 9 did for his foaf.

Swim has noticed this phenomenon before... sometimes it seems that when a person's intentions or motives are impure, or when he's simply not "meant" to go, that nothing will happen, regardless of dosage.

He's experienced this before when smoking it... one time it "told" him something he didn't particularly want to hear, and when he went back the next day demanding an explanation, storming the gates of heaven so to speak, he got nothing. No fractals, no visuals, no colors... nothing. Just blackness. He's seen this happen with other people too, both with smoking and with oral dosage. He once dosed a friend with over 500mg orally, on top of 300mg harmaloid, and the only thing that happened was that his friend felt "at peace with everything." Which was apparently what needed to happen... his friend was very distraught at the time, having just lost custody of his kids.

Stanislav Grof reported the same thing in his LSD studies... sometimes people simply did not have an experience, even when dosed with several hundred mics.

Anyway point being that there's more at work here than just the effects of a "drug." We all know the importance of set and setting, but it's important to consider just how far that goes. Especially when considering something like injecting DMT... really, is this the image we want to have when rocketing into hyperspace? A needle in our arm? Certainly not for swim, being an ex-junkie... taking that third toke may be hard, but it's sort of like an act of will is required in order to have the proper experience. Also, is this the image we want dmt to have? You know how the public looks at needles... just wait till the first person gets busted shooting dmt, that's all we need in the headlines. "New 'psychedelic smack' hits the streets!" Ugh.

Dunno, it's something to think about...
The Ultimate Secret of the Universe is that there is no Ultimate Secret of the Universe... there's just a bunch of stuff that happens.
 
 
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