Hi, this is just a short introduction, im in my mid 20's and am in search of anything natural plants that produce mind/body altering effects, and as such have been buying up different quantities of plants for extractions to see what interesting things are growing on this beautiful little blue ball at this time. I also would like to add that i have never had OEVS beyond massive enhancement of color/light and a 3d kind of pop-up effect noticed from smoked dried changa leaves.

I currently am working with Cebil/Chaliponga/syrian rue, taking extractions using ethanol (151 proof 'everclear', but have had some nice successes with raw plant material if used properly, but only to get mild visual effects and a cannalike buzz.

----As far as what i can contribute as new member, i can say with relative certainty (from much personal experience) that if you want to use cebil, it needs dried at a low temp (i use 300-320F max, which is slow but produces great results with much patience). Each drying removes large portions of the chemicals responsible increase Body Load, feeling excessively hot no matter what temp, dizziness, and nausea.

Heres my method:
1 Dry at 300-320F for around 2 hours or until seeds pop and virtually all change color.
2 Remove shells and break apart the semi-dry seed hearts (im yet to do squat with the shell casings)
3 Dry for 2 more hours at 300-320F and break up as finely as possible for further drying (seriously).
4 Crush dried seed-hearts as finely as possible and dry yet again for another 2 hours.
5 Crush EVEN FURTHER and dry for YET ANOTHER 2 hours at 300-320F.
6 Repeat step 5 and try not to get impatient (the negative effects of not enough drying can be pretty unpleasant).

The quadruple-dried product is now ready for smoking, but before consuming cebil DEFINITELY go to your supermarket and find the extract/flavoring isle, and purchase a container of Lemon Oil Extract (Natural) and Peppermint Extraction (Natural).

Before smoking/consuming cebil it is very wise to get a few good drops of the Lemon Oil/Peppermint Oil in your mouth and wait 5 minutes, if you have any doubts, do this twice . DO NOT GET IMITATION OILS, IT MUST SAY NATURAL!!


With all of that said, this produces a giggly, relaxed, euphoric, and visually vivid experience that makes colors and textures come alive which lasts for 1.5-3 hours (from my experiences), but doesnt blast you off (ive had several people try this finished product and tell me it could be a pretty good alternative to Cannabis or drinking).

NOTE: if something goes wrong, the negative effects are Body Load, Feeling moderately overheated, minor dizziness/nausea, and constriction of the veins which is mostly noticed in the chest/shoulder areas. these effects go away after 15-20 minutes unless ingested nasally, in which case I have seen the bad effects last for 30-60 minutes max. OFTEN THIS IS FIXABLE VERY QUICKLY WITH A FEW DROPS OF LEMON OIL/PEPPERMINT OIL IN THE MOUTH.

Id also like to add that when this dried Cebil Powder is mixed with Pickling lime (Calcium Hydroxide) from your local supermarket in a ratio of 1:1 with the lime and left to react for 10-15 minutes and then inhaled nasally, produced instant colorful OEV's and "a sense of control over the trip" that lasted for 60 minutes and stopped abruptly, leaving the consumer in a guru minded state that was unheard of before hand (for this person). a mild buzz and MASSIVE PUPIL DILATION we noted for 60 minutes after the trip ended.

The person discussed also was completely against tripping, until they got drunk and decided to get creative, and has been a lot more open-minded since!!

Welcome to the Nexus, and thanks for sharing your experiments

Did you try dmt yet?

Be well!

Thank you I havent tried extracted dmt yet but ive drank a bit of aya made with Changa and blue lotus, with an awful/sacred taste (it smelled exactly like iced tea) and had me giggling/dumdfounded, and my cat has smoked Dried Changa/Yopo/Cebil/Rue, but not dmt yet.

Unfortunately my cat hasnt had a full on voyage and hasnt had visuals beyond color and minor amounts of perceiving the buzzing shining energy flow that makes up everything.

My cat did once hallucinate an entire car accident that didnt take happen at all while smoking a combination of unextracted salvia/cannabis and listening to the radio.

^how can you smoke changa but not DMT? There is DMT in changa.

How did you make ayahuasca with changa and blue lotus? There most likely will not be near enough harmalas in changa to brew it and have it active..unless you brew a whole batch and then you might be ingesting near a gram or so of DMT..

What im saying is my cat has never consumed dmt in an extracted form, and there was a LOT of blue lotus in my brew, which was later evaporated and smoked with pleasant enjoyable effects.

and i only drank half a cup of the brew, as it was one of the worst things i have ever tasted!!

so you drank bufotenine? sounds horrid...

Oh yea, i forgot about there being bufotenine in Chaliponga, i had assumed that to be incorrect for a long time, but it seems as if there is some small amount present when my cat smokes it.

At the very least, even without any form of prep my cat doesnt get the nausea/dizziness/vasconstriction/overly hot feeling that it gets from non-prepped bufo without the Lemon Oil & Peppermint oil. Smoking Cebil has been very enjoyable for my cat so far as long as the Cebil has the hell dried clear out of it and those 2 oils are taken first.

CEBIL IS LIKE THE FLU IN A SEED FOR 30MINS *IF YOU DONT CRUSH/DRY IT HEAVILY & TAKE NATURAL LEMON OIL WITH IT*, YOUVE BEEN WARNED!!

^I meant are you drinking cebil..you said you made changa with chaliponga, cebil and lotus and then drank it. There is not enough bufotenine in chaliponga to feel it at all. I drink chaliponga all the time and can ID the effects of bufotenine easily and none of them are present in chaliponga.

lemon oil and ginger both contain the same things and do not block the sicknes associated with bufotneine IME. I have taken bufotenine well over 100 times and tested this out many times and it helps a little but not much at all. Cebil can give amazing visions but mentally it is inferior. Bufotenine lacks any insight or psychological meaningfulness. Mentally you just feel sort of zapped out as if you have sleep deprivation while having insanely colorful visuals/visions. I once took it every single night for a month and after that I started to feel over it..interesting to have visions like that but other than that it doesnt inspire anything really spiritual in..nothing at all comparable to mushrooms or ayahuasca.

It is interesting though to have some cebil durring or right after an ayahuasca peak. Still..the nause is discusting. Physically, it is a discusting experience, mentally it is dull and visually it is spectacular.

That seems odd about the lemon oil, in 6 different people my cat's tried smoking Cebil with, the Lemon Oil/Peppermint oil eliminated the negative symptoms completely, but only when both were taken together (when just the lemon oil was taken it halved the negatives, but didnt eliminate them).

And the Ayahuasca was made my percolating blue lotus and chali for a week separately, then combining together with a few grams of passion flower powder and letting sit for a few more days, and then drinking them together. not worth it, yet when that mix was boiled to ROCKLIKE form (horridly hard), a little water was mixed in to make what looked like the nastiest resin and when smoked produced mild insight/mild visuals/laughing/euphoria tremendously with 1 small bowl.

i also noticed a kind of "deftness" to the thoughts about the world around me, all i wanted to do was share the plants that i had and spent the entire night doing so with many good effects.

Also, I dont believe that not prepping the cebil has ANY advantage whatsoever. This is something that I feel confident saying I have done more than most people posting on the internet about these things. I did alot of experimenting with cebil and extracted bufotenine at one point..the effects of un-based seeds are consistantly even more painful and sickening than the freebased snuffs and freebase bufotenine.

The pKa of bufotenine is such that if you dont convert it to freebase form and smoke or snuff the salts they will not pass the BBB very efficiently and get bound up in 5ht sites in the gut etc and cause alot of discomfort. There is a reason almost all tribes use the freebase form of bufotenine..it just passes the BBB much more effectivly than the salts, and even still as freebase there is alot of doscomfort..

Some of this may also be related to the presence of bufotenine oxides as Phlux has stated many times that with a zinc reduction there is no nausea at all with the freebase.

Beyond that, just refer to Ott's own work with the snuffs..not many people have actaully explored the snuffs due to the horrible reputation that bufotenine has..but the people who have also mirror what I have said and what the natives have known for a long time-that the freebase is far more effective and cuts down on the discomfort compared to the unprepared salts..

I have dried the seeds in the oven at high temps for long periods as well just below the boiling point of bufotenine salts and freebase..I have noticed consistantly that anything over say 30 minutes is pointless-there is NO difference. I dunno what you are talking about here but it does not parallel my experience with cebil seeds.

With a properly prepared snuff that has been roasted before hand, powdered and adequatly freebased without destroying it with too high of a PH..the effects will take a few minutes to really hit. It will start with instant nausea and then tingling in the face..growing into a prickly pins and needles feeling. If you get a full dose your face starts to go completely numb then the rest of the body as if you have undergone anesthetic..it is NOT giggly at all at this level..there is ALOT of nausea and constriction..you will most likely want to vomit and you might shit as well..things begin to strobe even in full daylight..but in the dark you lay down and your body tingles so much that if you dont move you cant feel it..you are numb and then patterns begin to weave themselves before you as they increase in color..they get so intricate and brightly colorful that you realize you have never ever had visual like this from anything else..mentally you feel sort of tired and fuzzy but that is all. Then the visuals turn into visions and you basically break through into a place sort of like DMt hyperspace but lacking the emotional depth and some other aspects of DMT..You might meet other beings, inca looking people, fly on space ships etc. I have sworn I was taken on space ships to other planets with alien jungles before with bufotenine, while at the same time feeling almost bored and like I could sit up and talk on the phone at any time if I needed to.

The salts are also claimed to be more euphoric when smoked than the freebase, which I can sort of agree with..though they are far far far less visionary and way more toxic feeling.

I wounld really suggest anyone reading this to NOT try the tek posted in the origional post. Follow a proper prep for cebil..the native did not start to freebase the seeds for no reason.

I speak merely for the substances that make you sick when you smoke the dried and shelled seeds, i have not done any extractions or chemical modifications whatsoever on these seeds before my cat/my friends smoked them. and i have *never* chewed or eaten any Cebil, as any random thing found laying in horse manure would most certainly taste better.

I also speak from much experience in smoking these bad boys right out of a pipe after drying/crushing and absolutely nothing else (having dripped a few drops of Lemon Oil and Peppermint oil on my cats/their tongue prior), but the wonderfully scientific data youve given me doesnt change the experiences of my cat and my friends who all have had much less negatives from smoking the dried seeds the more the material was dried out prior to smoking (it also removed a lot of the god awful stink).

Also, what temperature do you work with when you heat them? Im tremendously paranoid of destroying/evaporating the actives so i usually stay at 300F which if my oven is low could turn out to be 250-280F (whether or not this is necessary i dont know, which is why i joined up to learn from more informed people like yourself).


Edit: LOL please tell me i can prep these things in less than an hour at a much higher temperature than what i have been-without destroying any alkaloids, that would be SOOO nice to know!! Also your description of the buzz is dead on what i get as well.

Step 1: Bought the seeds on ebay, Step 2: heated them at 300F until they popped which in itself took over an hour for all to pop. Step 3 removed shells and ground up (i have no good method of doing this yet) and redried for 2 hours (did this twice). Step 4: Dripped Natural Lemon Oil/Peppermint oil on tongue Step 5: Smoked in peace pipe like Cannabis.

Effects: Colors/lights/everything comes alive, a good deal of euphoria (not tremendous, but lovely), a Cannabis like mind numbing, laughing with great ease at anything, a sport of drunk feeling as far as equilibrium goes, and a sense of relaxation that was fantastic. There was absolutely no nausea, no overly hot feeling, and very very little vasoconstriction that went away quickly and was only noticed. This method had *no sickness/unpleasant effects* the vasoconstriction was barely noticed.

I have tried and repeated this on 10 people with the same effects including myself, and only 1 person out of 10 got massive spins and stayed sick for 1.5-2 hours.

---

My friend took the above described, but mixed 50/50 with kind of old Calcium Hydroxide, and snorted a line of it with no lemon oil to prep.

The Effects: this resulted instantly in "the worst bed spins of all time", altho this was said with a grin and didnt appear to bother him. Then he said "im trippin, everything is swirling around me, i need to go outside and puke". and he did like it was casual (odd for him) and he kept describing over and over the intensity of the bed spins. At this point i gave him some lemon oil and he DUMPED it all over his hand and licked it off like a dog, instantly saying he feels a lot better and that "your yard is glowing neon green, im trippin, im gonna go lay down!!" (the visuals started around 6 mins after ingestion, i forgot this gap in time, as i was spacing bad at the time). They then laid in bed staring up at the morphing color patterns of some sort and kept exclaiming "i have so much control over my trip", and described something sound like blasting off, but that he could control the rate of descent, and kept asking for the light to be turned on, then off every few minutes.

after 60-70 mins my friend came completely to and spoke as if they had knowledge and insight (which is the opposite of this person normally), but didnt really have anything to offer. keeping in mind that this was an anti-tripper's first trip, which they only wanted because they were very drunk and decided to demand they try it lol.

**these are my experiences to the T, i dont believe that i left anything out, at no point did i base any of the Cebil or modify it in any way except when my friend snorted it mixed with Calcium Hydroxide.*** this is not hearsay, i was there for and witnessing all of it as well as the descriptions, and thoroughly asking everyone for any details they could give.

if you say this is not true then i implore you to follow my smoking tek exactly and try it (no deviations whatsoever), as for the snorting thing i wont vouch for because it had such reported nausea and vomiting. No extractions, No basing, no high heat, only Natural Lemon Oil/Peppermint oil 3 or 4 drops apiece 15 mins beforehand, and smoked out of a non water pipe. Note: for a psychonaut this will be insufficient to produce significant visual effects at 1-5 hits with a non-torch bic lighter, and has applies more as a mildly visual Cannabis alternative.