member for the trees
  
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..i wanted to begin a discussion of gnosticism, but i haven't gotten my filling ready for the pie yet..i will eventually post some links and speculations here.. so any 'gnostics' in here feel free to let loose..i will have, hopefully, some deeper reflections to add in the future.. ..the term Gnostic is usually associated with the combined branches pooled in the Nag Hammadi scolls [ http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html] ..the initial question i want to ponder is if this tradition is what we are talking about when discussing modern 'gnosticism', or whether there are broader established forms..or if we simply take 'gnostic' to be a seeker of the 'direct knowledge' through technique (the broad definition) one thing i do like about the 2000 year old Nag Hammadi collection is their 'polythesim' under a single collective belief..there are Christian, Jewish, Sethian, Manichean and Mandaen (my favourites for their drama) as well as mysterious poetic but powerful works such as "The Thunder: Perfect Mind" (below) and flows of sound-words that seem like glossolalia lyric manuals.. ..i also love how the ancient papyrus scrolls were found by a boy herding goats (who partially ate a few) and a couple were used to start fires (their value not realised) the cover note says they were to be kept hidden until the final days... ..here are the first few stanzas of The Thunder: Perfect Mind [ Selection made from James M. Robinson, ed., The Nag Hammadi Library, revised edition. HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1990. "I was sent forth from the power, and I have come to those who reflect upon me, and I have been found among those who seek after me. Look upon me, you who reflect upon me, and you hearers, hear me. You who are waiting for me, take me to yourselves. And do not banish me from your sight. And do not make your voice hate me, nor your hearing. Do not be ignorant of me anywhere or any time. Be on your guard! Do not be ignorant of me. For I am the first and the last. I am the honored one and the scorned one. I am the whore and the holy one. I am the wife and the virgin. I am the mother and the daughter. I am the members of my mother. I am the barren one and many are her sons. I am she whose wedding is great, and I have not taken a husband. I am the midwife and she who does not bear. I am the solace of my labor pains. I am the bride and the bridegroom, and it is my husband who begot me. I am the mother of my father and the sister of my husband and he is my offspring. I am the slave of him who prepared me. I am the ruler of my offspring. But he is the one who begot me before the time on a birthday. And he is my offspring in (due) time, and my power is from him. I am the staff of his power in his youth, and he is the rod of my old age. And whatever he wills happens to me. I am the silence that is incomprehensible and the idea whose remembrance is frequent. I am the voice whose sound is manifold and the word whose appearance is multiple. I am the utterance of my name..." @
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5267 Joined: 01-Jul-2010 Last visit: 13-Dec-2018
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I like how the stanzas reflect God as being non dual in nature. He is both the whore and the virgin. That excerpt really resonated with me. My guess is that the original forms of gnosticism were probably even more esoteric than it's modern incarnation as they most likely had access to texts and resources that could really help "shed some light" on their plight. On the other hand modern gnostics have contemporary lenses through which to gaze which includes things like quantum physics along with an overarching view of the past through increased accumulated written tradition over the centuries. Even in the case of quantum physics however, it seems that we are merely rediscovering the wheel. We're discovering the same concepts in different contexts. I think the idea of gnosticism at its core has remained relatively the same. That is the objective remains the same, and that is for the direct experience of the One. "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein
"The Mighty One appears, the horizon shines. Atum appears on the smell of his censing, the Sunshine- god has risen in the sky, the Mansion of the pyramidion is in joy and all its inmates are assembled, a voice calls out within the shrine, shouting reverberates around the Netherworld." - Egyptian Book of the Dead
"Man fears time, but time fears the Pyramids" - 9th century Arab proverb
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Not I
Posts: 2007 Joined: 30-Aug-2010 Last visit: 23-Sep-2019
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Great idea for a thread. I've been wanting to dive in and learn more. Will be watching the thread with eager anticipation. Peace If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..thanks joedirt..i'll look into my own personal reflections on gnosticism as time goes on, but for now i'll try to define 'classic' gnosticism.. Global wrote: Quote:I like how the stanzas reflect God as being non dual in nature. He is both the whore and the virgin. ..i'm glad you found a resonance..interestingly there is no agreed upon interpretation of The Thunder: Perfect Mind.. some think it is about Sophia (Psitis, or 'wisdom'  , others about the 'soul'..? clasical gnosticism is very unlike judeo-christian monotheism ..a breif description of ancient Gnostic cosmology is called for.. ..Gnosticism comes from a point of view of attempting to explain the troubles and divisions in the world (or the mind) rather than seeking to exclude all externality in the way some eastern paths do..it was also highly critical of traditional church power structures..spiritual truth, they said, should be directly experienced by the observant (gnosis), not dictated by a priest or dogma..hence the Nag Hammadi collection, under a single editorial group, comprises various contrasting and different forms of gnosticism - from christian to almost 'pagan'..'abracadara' was a gnostic magical key word used in ritual, one of the few things known about the Gnostics except for what their persecutors wrote prior to the discovery at Nag Hammadi in1945.. they were branded heretics by the roman church for, amongst other crimes, allowing women and men to worship in the same room, and allowing discussion of deities/entities outside of orthodox christianity.. ..the various gnostic strands are connected by a common upper level cosmology.. all things come from the Source..it is limitless and incomprehensible, but is also described in Greek as being 'alien'..the Source is alien in the absolute sense, as in 'not from here'.. for reasons mysterious to all, two 'fragments' or 'sparks' came out of the Source into the shadow (which is above the abyss) ..these were a masculine principle (Yaldaboath, or Samael) and a feminine (Sophia or Psitis), in some versions Yaldaboath is derived from or birthed by Sophia, in other versions they appear independently.. what we think of as our universe is the interaction between these two 'universes'.. they each multiply divided into billions of 'Aeons' arising in archangels down to beings like humans ..Yaldaboath, or Samael the 'blind-god' became deluded..he took the light of Sophia to be a reflection of his own, and became convinced that he alone existed in the void and created..her attempts reveal herself drove him mad.. ..but humans contain (as all things) the same spark of the Source, hence they can know the truth..this, and Sophia's attempts to 'tunnel into' his co-existing twin universe, led him to become demented and create a 'prison-world' for conscious beings, governed and manipulated by the Archons.. gnostics seek to dissolve the prison and illusions of the blind god by allowing Sophia's universe to merge with ours, and seeking direct knowledge of the Source.. the internal mental dynamic reflects the cosmic principle (there is much Hermetic philosophy scattered in the texts) Global wrote: Quote:I think the idea of gnosticism at its core has remained relatively the same. That is the objective remains the same, and that is for the direct experience of the One. ..i like that..the ancient gnostics spent a lot of time looking at what apparently prevents this...the mysterious scholar who authored The Thunder: Perfect Mind came from a mysterious more poetic, ritual and unifying school within ancient gnosticism..knowing the Source is the key.. . ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. here from the ancient Nag Hammadi scrolls is the opening of On the Origin of the World [ Translated by Hans-Gebhard Bethge and Bentley Layton] http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html there are slightly different versions of the same concept in various scrolls, this probably either Manichaen or Greek-philosophic text is from a sizeable view that the 'god' of the Hebrews/Christians is corrupt, and not the Source... Quote:"Seeing that everybody, gods of the world and mankind, says that nothing existed prior to chaos, I, in distinction to them, shall demonstrate that they are all mistaken, because they are not acquainted with the origin of chaos, nor with its root. Here is the demonstration.
How well it suits all men, on the subject of chaos, to say that it is a kind of darkness! But in fact it comes from a shadow, which has been called by the name 'darkness'. And the shadow comes from a product that has existed since the beginning. It is, moreover, clear that it existed before chaos came into being, and that the latter is posterior to the first product. Let us therefore concern ourselves with the facts of the matter; and furthermore, with the first product, from which chaos was projected. And in this way the truth will be clearly demonstrated.
After the natural structure of the immortal beings had completely developed out of the infinite, a likeness then emanated from Pistis (Faith); it is called Sophia (Wisdom). It exercised volition and became a product resembling the primeval light. And immediately her will manifested itself as a likeness of heaven, having an unimaginable magnitude; it was between the immortal beings and those things that came into being after them, like [...]: she (Sophia) functioned as a veil dividing mankind from the things above.
Now the eternal realm (aeon) of truth has no shadow outside it, for the limitless light is everywhere within it. But its exterior is shadow, which has been called by the name 'darkness'. From it, there appeared a force, presiding over the darkness. And the forces that came into being subsequent to them called the shadow 'the limitless chaos'. From it, every kind of divinity sprouted up [...] together with the entire place, so that also, shadow is posterior to the first product. It was <in> the abyss that it (shadow) appeared, deriving from the aforementioned Pistis...
...And when Pistis Sophia desired to cause the thing that had no spirit to be formed into a likeness and to rule over matter and over all her forces, there appeared for the first time a ruler, out of the waters, lion-like in appearance, androgynous, having great authority within him, and ignorant of whence he had come into being. Now when Pistis Sophia saw him moving about in the depth of the waters, she said to him, "Child, pass through to here," whose equivalent is 'yalda baoth'.
Since that day, there appeared the principle of verbal expression, which reached the gods and the angels and mankind. And what came into being as a result of verbal expression, the gods and the angels and mankind finished. Now as for the ruler Yaltabaoth, he is ignorant of the force of Pistis: he did not see her face, rather he saw in the water the likeness that spoke with him. And because of that voice, he called himself 'Yaldabaoth'. But 'Ariael' is what the perfect call him, for he was like a lion. Now when he had come to have authority over matter, Pistis Sophia withdrew up to her light.
When the ruler saw his magnitude - and it was only himself that he saw: he saw nothing else, except for water and darkness - then he supposed that it was he alone who existed. His [...] was completed by verbal expression: it appeared as a spirit moving to and fro upon the waters. And when that spirit appeared, the ruler set apart the watery substance. And what was dry was divided into another place. And from matter, he made for himself an abode, and he called it 'heaven'. And from matter, the ruler made a footstool, and he called it 'earth'..."
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..to attempt to clarify, the classical Gnostics saw consciousness as having a descending branching tree-like structure, from 'godheads' down to ordinary 'gods' (entities) and eventually human, but they are all connected..
..schisms in society and the mind can be understood by understanding the divisional hierarchy..
the Source (within it the light is limitless) is like the 'Clear Light of the Void'..everything else experienced is not the Source..
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..so, in preparation for 2012, for the hardcore 'overthrow the archons' type gnostics (there are a few in the nexus), here is a little from: The Hypostasis of the Archons (The Reality of the Rulers) from the Nag Hammadi scrolls: Quote:Their chief is blind; because of his power and his ignorance and his arrogance he said, with his power, "It is I who am God; there is none apart from me." When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And this speech got up to incorruptibility; then there was a voice that came forth from incorruptibility, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" - which is, "god of the blind." Quote:They took Adam and put him the garden, that he might cultivate it and keep watch over it. And the rulers issued a command to him, saying, "From every tree in the garden shall you eat; yet from the tree of recognizing good and evil do not eat, nor touch it; for the day you eat from it, with death you are going to die."
They [...] this. They do not understand what they have said to him; rather, by the father's will, they said this in such a way that he might (in fact) eat, and that Adam might <not> regard them as would a man of an exclusively material nature.
The rulers took counsel with one another and said, "Come, let us cause a deep sleep to fall upon Adam." And he slept. - Now the deep sleep that they "caused to fall upon him, and he slept" is Ignorance. - They opened his side like a living woman. And they built up his side with some flesh in place of her, and Adam came to be endowed only with soul.
And the spirit-endowed woman came to him and spoke with him, saying, "Arise, Adam." Quote:Then the female spiritual principle came in the snake, the instructor; and it taught them, saying, "What did he say to you? Was it, 'From every tree in the garden shall you eat; yet - from the tree of recognizing good and evil do not eat'?"
The carnal woman said, "Not only did he say 'Do not eat', but even 'Do not touch it; for the day you eat from it, with death you are going to die.'"
And the snake, the instructor, said, "With death you shall not die; for it was out of jealousy that he said this to you. Rather your eyes shall open and you shall come to be like gods, recognizing evil and good." ..Adam and his wife are of course eventually expelled from the garden by the angry Chief Archon who discovered they had gained knowledge.. it's an example of Christian Gnosticism..not quite the same as the bible.. .
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Not I
Posts: 2007 Joined: 30-Aug-2010 Last visit: 23-Sep-2019
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So gnostics believed in "them" or multiple gods? If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..it seems that gnostics (including christian) had a pantheistic view of most levels of reality, which allowed for various 'gods' and god-like beings/entities..
despite having strong influence on our perceived universe, they are still not the origin of existence/awareness..
this is the infinite 'Aeon of Truth', the Source..the limitless light of awareness which resides in all conscious beings from godhead to human/animal.
..consciousness seems multiple because it is a branching tree-heirarchy emanating from the top level self-creating viewpoint..this level is itself merely a 'spark' or fragment of the eternal realm..the construction of our reality as normally perceived comes from two or more god heads, in the gnostic view..the 'oneness' does not have agendas as can gods..
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Not I
Posts: 2007 Joined: 30-Aug-2010 Last visit: 23-Sep-2019
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nen888 wrote:..it seems that gnostics (including christian) had a pantheistic view of most levels of reality, which allowed for various 'gods' and god-like beings/entities..
despite having strong influence on our perceived universe, they are still not the origin of existence/awareness..
this is the infinite 'Aeon of Truth', the Source..the limitless light of awareness which resides in all conscious beings from godhead to human/animal.
..consciousness seems multiple because it is a branching tree-heirarchy emanating from the top level self-creating viewpoint..this level is itself merely a 'spark' or fragment of the eternal realm..the construction of our reality as normally perceived comes from two or more god heads, in the gnostic view..the 'oneness' does not have agendas as can gods..
. This is good stuff nen888. You are inspiring me to really dig more into gnosis. I didn't realize there was gnostics and then christian gnostics? Do you think these are closer to the 'real' teachings of Jesus? I know you can't answer that matter of fact, but what is your opinion after having studied this? Peace. If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
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Not I
Posts: 2007 Joined: 30-Aug-2010 Last visit: 23-Sep-2019
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Interesting web site I found to learn more. http://gnosticteachings....n/12-what-is-gnosis.htmlNen would you have any book recommendations to dive deeper into this? Peace. If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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joedirt wrote: Quote:Do you think these are closer to the 'real' teachings of Jesus?
I know you can't answer that matter of fact, but what is your
opinion after having studied this? ..actually i think yes, but i'll answer why more another day when i've pondered that again, as i'd like to be coherent.. i'm not a 'christian gnostic', but i find a lot of great spiritual insight in their texts..i personally lean towards Mandean and Manichean gnosticism, but i'm not of any singular belief system (also having many so-called 'animist' and shamanic views) .. thanks for your interest and link joedirt.. ..the best resource is the Harper and Collins complete translation of the Nag Hammadi Library (incl. fragments of the more 'pagan'/ritual texts) it has good commentary by the translators with each text, and some general historical information..but the texts still really speak strongly for themselves across the near 2000 year gap.. while the scrolls were discovered in 1945, the translations were not released outside the academic/theological community until the 1970s..the commission in charge of their translation was a Vatican organisation..they understood that many of the texts presented a window into the views of the early christians, and believed the material should be slowly released..a few of them, and other christians, in fact changed their overview of their religion after being exposed to the material.. ..a very significant text is The Gospel of Mary Magdelene"...the codex preserves the most complete surviving fragment of the Gospel of Mary (as the text is named in the manuscript, though it is clear this named Mary is the person we call Mary of Magdala). Two other small fragments of the Gospel of Mary from separate Greek editions were later unearthed in archaeological excavations at Oxyrhynchus in lower Egypt. (Fragments of the Gospel of Thomas were also found at this ancient site; see the Oxyrhynchus and Gospel of Thomas page for more information about Oxyrhynchus.) Finding three fragments of a text of this antiquity is extremely unusual, and it is thus evidenced that the Gospel of Mary was well distributed in early Christian times and existed in both an original Greek and a Coptic language translation." http://www.gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm [The Gnostic Society Library] from Chapter 5: Quote:2) Then Mary stood up, greeted them all, and said to her brethren, Do not weep and do not grieve nor be irresolute, for His grace will be entirely with you and will protect you.
3) But rather, let us praise His greatness, for He has prepared us and made us into Men.
4) When Mary said this, she turned their hearts to the Good, and they began to discuss the words of the Savior.
5) Peter said to Mary, Sister we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of woman.
6) Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember which you know, but we do not, nor have we heard them.
7) Mary answered and said, What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you. from Chapter 8 & 9: Quote:11) The soul answered and said, I saw you. You did not see me nor recognize me. I served you as a garment and you did not know me.
12) When it said this, it (the soul) went away rejoicing greatly.
13) Again it came to the third power, which is called ignorance.
14) The power questioned the soul, saying, Where are you going? In wickedness are you bound. But you are bound; do not judge!
15) And the soul said, Why do you judge me, although I have not judged?
16) I was bound, though I have not bound.
17) I was not recognized. But I have recognized that the All is being dissolved, both the earthly things and the heavenly.
18 ) When the soul had overcome the third power, it went upwards and saw the fourth power, which took seven forms.
19) The first form is darkness, the second desire, the third ignorance, the fourth is the excitement of death, the fifth is the kingdom of the flesh, the sixth is the foolish wisdom of flesh, the seventh is the wrathful wisdom. These are the seven powers of wrath.
20) They asked the soul, Whence do you come slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
21) The soul answered and said, What binds me has been slain, and what turns me about has been overcome,
22) and my desire has been ended, and ignorance has died.
23) In a aeon I was released from a world, and in a Type from a type, and from the fetter of oblivion which is transient.
24) From this time on will I attain to the rest of the time, of the season, of the aeon, in silence.
Chapter 9
1) When Mary had said this, she fell silent, since it was to this point that the Savior had spoken with her.
2) But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, Say what you wish to say about what she has said. I at least do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are strange ideas.
3) Peter answered and spoke concerning these same things.
4) He questioned them about the Savior: Did He really speak privately with a woman and not openly to us? Are we to turn about and all listen to her? Did He prefer her to us?
5) Then Mary wept and said to Peter, My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I have thought this up myself in my heart, or that I am lying about the Savior?
6) Levi answered and said to Peter, Peter you have always been hot tempered.
7) Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.
8 ) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.
9) That is why He loved her more than us. Rather let us be ashamed and put on the perfect Man, and separate as He commanded us and preach the gospel, not laying down any other rule or other law beyond what the Savior said.
10) And when they heard this they began to go forth to proclaim and to preach.
..ave maria... @ @
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..the gnostic battle with the Archons is not merely external, but also internal..as above, so below..we are interactions of all these entities.. the power to see through it all comes from the infinitesimally small but infinite 'spark' of the source within all conscious beings..and with the help of the principle of wisdom and grace, Sophia.. ..an early branch of gnosticism was the Mandeans.. from the region now known as Iraq, they pre-date Islamic and Arabic culture and influenced the later Manichaen spiritual movement, which also draws from Bhuddism..they may have influenced early Christianity in it's differentiation from Judaism.. ..they are less concerned with the pantheon of entities/archons, and are more 'dualistic', describing an inner/outer dynamic between the soul and the 'adversary', the ultimate tester and trickster..that all still comes from the Source makes mandean gnostics still 'trinary' in absolute cosmology.. an outline of Mandean (or 'Nasoraen' practices was written by E.S. Drower: (1960) [see http://egnu93.files.wordpress.c...e_secret_adam_drower.pdf for full text] Quote:I. A supreme formless Entity, the expression of which in
time and space is creation of spiritual, etheric, and material
worlds and beings. Production of these is delegated by I t to a
creator or creators who originated in It. The cosmos is created
by Archetypal Man, who produces it in similitude to his own
shape.
2. Dualism: a cosmic Father and Mother, Light and Dark-
ness, Right and Left, syzygy in cosmic and microcosmic form.
3. Asafeatureofthisdualism, counter-types, a world of ideas.
4. The soul is portrayed as an exile, a captive; her home and
origin being the supreme Entity to which she eventually returns.
5 . Planets and stars influence fate and human beings, and are
also places of detention after death.
6 . A saviour spirit or saviour spirits which assist the soul on
her journey through life and after it to ‘worlds of light’.
7. A cult-language of symbol and metaphor. Ideas and quali-
ties are personified.
8. ‘Mysteries’, i.e. sacraments to aid and purify the soul, to
ensure her rebirth into a spiritual body, and her ascent from
the world of matter. These are often adaptations of existing
seasonal and traditional rites to which an esoteric interpretation
is attached. In the case of the NaSoraeans this interpretation is
based o n the Creation story (see I and z), especially on the
Divine Man, Adam, as crowned and anointed King-priest.
9. Great secrecy is enjoined upon initiates; full explanation of
I, 2, and 8 being reserved for those considered able to understand
and preserve the gnosis.
Other features and developments occur in various syncretic
and gnostic systems, but the above are, upon the whole, the dis-
tinguishing features of Nqoraean gnosis, NaSirutha.
..some of their key spiritual male figures were the 'secret Adam', Seth, Shem and John the Baptist.. Quote: ...Adam Kasia, the Mystic or Secret Adam who preceded
the human Adam called Adam pugria (physical man) by many
myriads of years, for the macrocosm preceded the microcosm
and the Idea of the cosmos was formed in human shape, so
that through the creation of the one the creation of the other
ensued. In like manner, according to the secret doctrine...
it is through and because of Adam Kasia that a disembodied soul
obtains its spiritual body. ..the small community of Mandeans survive in relative secrecy to this day, but have been persecuted and driven out of their native Iraq, and are scattered in places like Canada and Australia.. .
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..also some Mandeans in Liverpool, UK i believe..
there were also Coptic gnostics, something i'll look into more later..the Coptics in Ethiopia claim to have the Ark of the Covenant..
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..i wanted to present a few more kinds of Gnosticism..firstly some very modern 'gnostic' musing, in the form of a blog called: The Cosmic Plenum: Bohm's Gnosis: The Implicate Order..before any physicists wince and frown, it's not a bad read actually..  from the article: Quote:Bohm's basic assumption is that "elementary particles are actually systems of extremely complicated internal structure, acting essentially as amplifiers of *information* contained in a quantum wave." As a conseqence, he has evolved a new and controversial theory of the universe--a new model of reality that Bohm calls the "Implicate Order."
The theory of the Implicate Order contains an ultraholistic cosmic view; it connects everything with everything else. In principle, any individual element could reveal "detailed information about every other element in the universe." The central underlying theme of Bohm's theory is the "unbroken wholeness of the totality of existence as an undivided flowing movement without borders." ..though this is perhaps stretching the term 'gnostic', depending on what David Bohm's technique was (or 'sacrament' )
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..and now for some ancient Sethian gnosticism..for the real far out types.. the Sethians are a pre-Christian sect originating somewhere between Egypt and Palestine..the passages below are from The Gospel Of The Egyptians, one of the ancient scrolls found at Nag Hammadi [see full transl. here..] it features examples of glossolalia chants, also used by early christians..says wikipedia: "It also contains a hymn, parts of which are unusual in being apparently meaningless sequences of vowels (thought to be a representation of early Christian glossolalia), although the vowels of the final paragraph (u aei eis aei ei o ei ei os ei) can be partitioned to read (in Greek) who exists as Son for ever and ever. You are what you are, you are who you are.... Quote:"The holy book of the Egyptians about the great invisible Spirit, the Father whose name cannot be uttered, he who came forth from the heights of the perfection, the light of the light of the aeons of light, the light of the silence of the providence <and> the Father of the silence, the light of the word and the truth, the light of the incorruptions, the infinite light, the radiance from the aeons of light of the unrevealable, unmarked, ageless, unproclaimable Father, the aeon of the aeons, Autogenes, self-begotten, self-producing, alien, the really true aeon." Quote:"A hidden, invisible mystery came forth:
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
(the 7 vowels, 22 times each.)" Quote:"The great Seth wrote this book with letters in one hundred and thirty years. He placed it in the mountain that is called 'Charaxio,' in order that, at the end of the times and the eras, by the will of the divine Autogenes and the whole pleroma, through the gift of the untraceable, unthinkable, fatherly love, it may come forth and reveal this incorruptible, holy race of the great savior, and those who dwell with them in love, and the great, invisible, eternal Spirit, and his only-begotten Son, and the eternal light, and his great, incorruptible consort, and the incorruptible Sophia, and the Barbelon, and the whole pleroma in eternity. Amen." .
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polyfather anomalous
Posts: 630 Joined: 14-Mar-2010 Last visit: 19-Jun-2017 Location: Region of Thud
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nen888 wrote:"A hidden, invisible mystery came forth:
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
(the 7 vowels, 22 times each.)" Oh wow, ancient glossolalia transcribed. May I add to the information in this thread with a mention of ABRAXAS, a Gnostic "god" embodying both the "light" and "dark" aspects of the divinity. ABRAXAS is mentioned by Carl Jung in his "7 Sermons to the Dead", as well as by Hermann Hesse in his story of a youth, "Demian". Jung explains: "This is a god whom ye knew not, for mankind forgot it. We name it by its name Abraxas. It is more indefinite still than god and devil... Hard to know is the deity of Abraxas. Its power is the greatest, because man perceiveth it not. From the sun he draweth the summum bonum; from the devil the infimum malum; but from Abraxas life, altogether indefinite, the mother of good and evil. Smaller and weaker life seemeth to be than the summum bonum; wherefore is it also hard to conceive that Abraxas transcendeth even the sun in power, who is himself the radiant source of all the force of life. Abraxas is the sun, and at the same time the eternally sucking gorge of the void, the belittling and dismembering devil. The power of Abraxas is twofold; but ye see it not, because for your eyes the warring opposites of this power are extinguished. What the god-sun speaketh is life. What the devil speaketh is death. But Abraxas speaketh that hallowed and accursed word which is life and death at the same time..." lyserge attached the following image(s):  abraxas31.jpg (49kb) downloaded 546 time(s)."...I didn't know that Cheshire cats always grinned; in fact, I didn't know that cats could grin..." - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1116 Joined: 11-Sep-2011 Last visit: 09-Aug-2020
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Great thread, thanks for the info guys! I'll be following this thread and contributing when I have more time. 
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 420 Joined: 26-Aug-2011 Last visit: 19-Sep-2018
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Glad to see this thread today, I've been pursuing a different and yet related course of study through hermeticism and alchemy. There are a lot of correlations between gnostic thought and hermetic philosophy (they were contemporaries while they were being developed). The main difference I see between the two is where gnosticism tends to view the natural world as essentially hostile (we're trapped here), hermeticism views the natural world as a process of spiritual evolution. Through understanding the magical processes in the natural world, it becomes possible for the initiate to understand the essential unity of the entire cosmos. I actually just bought the Hermetica off of amazon and haven't even opened it yet. I'll be sure to post on this thread what correlations I find between it and gnosticism. All posts are from the fictional perspective of The Legendary Tek: the formless, hyperspace exploring apprentice to the mushroom god Teo. Tek, the lord of Eureeka's Castle, is the chosen one who has surfed the rainbow wave and who resides underneath the matter dome. All posts are fictitious in nature and are meant for entertainment purposes only.
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..thanks lysergify, and good to have some pictorial input too.. and thanks also Tek..you in fact pre-empted some of what i was going to mention about Abraxas (hermeticism).. ..and respect SpartanII.. Abraxas leads me to return briefly to the history of Gnosticism generally.. i've so far mainly been looking at the earliest known forms circa 100BC>200AD for whom the term was first applied, the 'gnosis' coming from direct experience via method and 'sacrament', which was mostly secret to non-initiates..it was unique in allowing for differing forms (hermetic, christian, mandean etc. ) within the same 'school', and it's writings were hastily gathered together in Nag Hammadi, Egypt just prior to a threatened persecution by Roman Imperialist Pauline Christians (assemblers of the official Bible) ..the bishop Irenaeus (2nd century AD) threatened to send a Legion to wipe them out..the gnostics went underground..the scrolls vanished, or were left out of the new official christian view.. ..almost all written knowledge of the ancient gnostics was lost until the scrolls' discovery in 1945..what little was recorded was mainly the writings of their persecutors/critics..of all gnostic philosophies it was those which challenged christianity which were most hidden (to most) wrote Christian theologian William W. Combs: Quote:Students of the New Testamanent have generally been interested in the subject
of Gnosticism because of its consistent appearance in discussions
of the "Colossian heresy" and the interpretation of John's first epistle.
It is felt that Gnosticism supplies the background against which these
and other issues should be understood. However, some who use the
terms "Gnostic" and "Gnosticism" lack a clear understanding of the
movement itself. In fact, our knowledge of Gnosticism has suffered
considerably from a lack of primary sources. Now, however, with the
discovery of the Nag Hammadi (hereafter, NH) codices, this void is
being filled.
The NH codices were discovered in 1945, a year before the
Qumran manuscripts, but the documents from NH have received
comparatively little attention from conservative scholars. ..but after the Roman Christian persecution, the tradition continued, particularly in it's Greek Hermetic form (which i haven't looked at much yet), in the secret European codes of alchemy, magic and in 'mystery schools'..for almost two millennia the surviving fragments of gnostic knowledge was transmitted in Europe by mainly oral tradition..! alchemical magical texts used codes..Madame Blavatsky drew heavily on such traditions.. Abraxas is of this gnostic branch - the enlightenment of Hermes Thrice Reborn - a branch with early connections to the Greek pantheon..many ancient gnostic cultists were Greek (as well as Egyptian and middle-eastern) ..in the Nag Hammadi collection, The Holy Book of the Great Invisible Spirit, Quote:..refers to Abrasax as anAeon dwelling with Sophia and other Aeons of the Pleroma in the light of the luminary Eleleth. In several texts, the luminary Eleleth is the last of the luminaries (Spiritual Lights) that come forward, and it is the Aeon Sophia, associated with Eleleth, who encounters darkness and becomes involved in the chain of events that leads to the Demiurge's rule of this world, and the salvage effort that ensues. As such, the role of Aeons of Eleleth, including Abrasax, Sophia, and others, pertains to this outer border of the Pleroma that encounters the ignorance of the world of Lack and interacts to rectify the error of ignorance in the world of materiality. wikipedia ..i'll dig up some Hermetic gnosticism..in the meanwhile, speaking of Greek, it is worth seeing what some of the Nag Hammadi scrolls/fragments actually look like..most were written in ancient Greek, the international 'spiritual' language of the day..they were such a big discovery that it took till the 1970s for most of the information to reach the public.. the fragments pictured below are what survives of the scroll Hypsiphrone (meaning 'She of High Mind' Codex XI,4, apparently a scroll giving the teachings of Hypsiphrone..all that is left after the sands of time (and a hungry goat) is: Quote:The book concerning the things that were seen by Hypsiphrone being revealed in the place of her virginity. And she listens to her brethren [...] Phainops and [...], and they speak with one another in a mystery.
Now I was first by individual ranking [...] I came forth to the place of my virginity and I went down to the world. Then I was told about them (by) those who abide in the place of my virginity.
And I went down to the world and they said to me, "Again Hypsiphrone has withdrawn outside the place of her virginity." Then the one who heard, Phainops, who breathes into her fount of blood, spread out for her.
And he said, ["I am Phainops ...] err [...] desire [... the number] of just the human remnants or that I may see a [man, the blood-likeness or ...] of a [... fire] and a [... in] his hands.
Then as for me, I said to him, "Phainops has not come upon me; he has not gone astray. [...] see a man [...] him [...] For [...] which he said [...] Phainops this [...].
I saw him and he said to me, "Hypsiphrone, why do you dwell outside me? Follow me and I will tell you about them." So I followed him, for I was in great fear. And he told me about a fount of blood that is revealed by setting afire [...] he said [...]. . nen888 attached the following image(s): Nag Hammadi Codex XI,4 - 22-32.jpg (55kb) downloaded 521 time(s). Nag Hammadi Codex XI, 4 14-34.jpg (91kb) downloaded 522 time(s).
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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..forgot to mention, of the previously quoted Sethian 'glossolalia' text from The Gospel of the Egyptians [Nag Hammadi codices; http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/goseqypt.html] which said: "The great Seth wrote this book with letters in one hundred and thirty years. He placed it in the mountain that is called 'Charaxio,' in order that, at the end of the times...it may come forth and reveal...[etc]" ..Charaxio is another name for Nag Hammadi..the scrolls lay hidden from approximately AD 200 to 1945.. a little Hermetic Gnostic use of glossolalia is in The Discourse On The Eighth And Ninth [NH codex VI,6 http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/discorse.html]..writes one of the translators Douglas M. Parrott: "Although its title is lost, this tractate has been identified as Hermetic from the uses of the names Trismegistus and Hermes and close similarities with previously known Hermetic tractates." [NH Library, Harper edtn. p321] Quote:"I call your name that is hidden within me: a o ee o eee ooo iii oooo ooooo ooo oo uuuuuu oo ooooooooo ooooooooo oo. You are the one who exists with the spirit. I sing a hymn to you reverently." ..the author of the tractate at the end asks the initiate to swear Quote:"...by heaven and earth and fire and water and seven rulers of substance and the creating spirit in them and the unbegotten god and the self-begotten one and him who has been begotten, that he will guard the things that Hermes has said." below are the actual scrolls (or fragments) and Nag Hammadi (Charaxio), the second two are The Gospel of Thomas c.30-90AD.. .. nen888 attached the following image(s): The-Gnostic-Gospels-1.jpg (106kb) downloaded 500 time(s). gospel of thmoas, nag hammadi.jpg (149kb) downloaded 503 time(s). gospel of thomas_.jpg (74kb) downloaded 500 time(s). nag hammadi, egypt 1949.jpg (45kb) downloaded 498 time(s).
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