Most ascorbic treated extract tastes way less bitter than the original. 50mg sublingual, no noticeable effect.

Ok' before I go and mes up another extraction from these seeds'

Would this be ok ?

Take the seeds whole and boil them 3 times in acidic water'
Strain'
Combine the solutions and reduce to about 300ml'
Let this solution stand for a couple of hours so all the sediment falls to the bottom'
Decant off' leaving any sludge in the bottom'
Add a few spots of ammonia solution to your solution to raise the ph'
The Harmine freebase crashes out of the solution and falls to the bottom'
Decant off gently'
Add hot water and mix real well' then filter'
Add a few spots of ammonia solution' to your solution' the freebase alks crash out'
Filter this solution and leave the filter to dry'
Scrape the alks off of the filter'

Attempts to clean the alkaloids with alcohol' came up dark redbrown' very fine dark powder'
As to it's activity' unknown at this time'

Bliss'

Nobuoni +

That's what I always wanted to do, omitting the salting out. For some reason it doesnt always work to well and I have to repeat it over and over to make sure everything comes out.

Can someone explain the point of the salting when repeated basing and filtering seem to clean up the alks pretty well? Does the salting favour the harmalas and neglect other alks in the seeds or something?

I would not omit the salt step... What trouble do you have with it? Just add excess salt (36g per 100l of liquid) and leave overnight in the fridge. Then decant/filter, and redissolve whatever precipitated/stayed on top of the filter in some more warm water and then freebase.

The salt step is the one that removes unwanted alkaloids such as vasicine and vasicinone. A friend of burnt from this forum tested and saw that the salt precipitated stuff indeed does not have those alkaloids, if Im not mistaken shulgin once tested the product from somebody who also did the same and was also free of those alkaloids

btw, nuoboni, you can just repeat the whole process over and over again a few times without the alcohol part, and each time will get a purer product. After the first run through, the filtering becomes much easier

Would be nice to know if the product from alcohol evaporation is bioactive, though... also if the same happens when redissolving freebase harmalas in alcohol or only their salts

Most of the time for me this is fine. But a couple of times after 48hrs refrigeration no precipitate whatsoever was seen. So I kept having to boil it down and re-saturate with salt then just a little came out each time after. I always make sure to salt the alks first time round but on the repeat cleanups I just filter and then rebase.



Anyway 50mgs ascorbic treated extract (ATE) sublingually gave no noticeable effect so 30 minutes later the same dose was repeated, then later 50mg original extract sublingual and another ATE 100mg oral followed by 70mg DMT fumerate (crazy dosing method I know).

What followed was a pharma trip that had had OEV's that were very clear, but with a very clear head (absolutely no cloudiness or looping) but a little short on duration although it seemed much longer. Usual dose 50mg DMT and 200mg harmala spaced apart 30 minutes.

I missed out that I would salt out after cooking down the seeds'
Then wash this mass of gunk in warm water' and filter it through cloth'
Then crash the alks out with ammonia solution'
Wash the next mass of gunk/crystals in hot water' dissolve it all' and filter'
Then crash the base alks out with ammonia solution'
One thing found' this is a vey time consuming plant to work with'
Also if you go too high with the amount of seeds you start with' you better consider a way of defating it all first'
Even if you no grind the seeds' you get one hell of a lot of gunk' of which eventualy gives you few grams of crystals'
Appreciate your input' litres' salting' crashing out in the fridge'
Serious filter papers and a vacumpump would no go a miss ))

Just to add' the alkaloids washed fom the salting with Methanol' the dark red brown upon grinding has gone'
The resultant powder is dark mustard yellow brown and smells like coffee'

Testing it now'

Bliss

Nobuoni +

I tried using egg whites when I used 250g of seeds. Sure enough it cleaned things up but I'm wondering if I lost some of my yield as it only seemed to be a little more than when I did a 100g extract with just fridge decanting. But then again the 250g extract was cleaned a lot more. Either way I think next time I'm just going to be very patient and maybe take 2x as long with the fridge decanting. Maybe 4 days.

50mg under the tongue' dissolved there then swallowed'felt initial effects inside of 15 minutes'
Active'
Calm feeling' slight fuzzy head but awake' numbe tongue'impression of slight nausia'
The effect is most deffinitaly recognised'

So an active maoi of this extract would be 100-150mg ?

Dreamy' with energy' very nice ! !

Bliss

Nobuoni +

Um' you folks drink tea of Rue ??????

Phwaaaaaaa'~ ))

No salt in this' an extremely bitter extract'

++++
+++
Decanted off after 1 day' then set the solution back in the fridge' there is another inch of alks and sludge' much cleaner yellow than the first crash after 1 day'
3 days now'
It seems this red/brown in Methanol' upon drying looks dark brown'
Upon grinding it becomes mustard yellow brown' the dark suff seems to coat the surface of the alks' no make any difference to activity though'

So taken was 50+50 ATE +50mg original +100 ATE' ATE was 200 spaced apart'
Experience sounds like THH'
150mg original would have felt cloudy' before the spice hit'
150mg of THH would have been very clear'

ATE is "Active"



Bliss

Nobuoni +

honestly, I wouldnt say one report proves or shows much about its activity yet.. He also took together the original stuff together, so...

lets wait till more people try.. would be nice if it did work

Only was ingested 50mg of original' this is insufficient for maoi'

So ATE is active' as to of what it is' ATE ???

The main thing here surely would be that the boiling the alks in ascorbic acid never killed them'
The same as washing the salted alks in Methanol' that result never killed the alks'
All down to experimentaion'
No knowing of what ATE is without it being analysed'
Good result

Bliss

Nobuoni +

130 grams of seeds yielded 7.4 grams of fine yellow brown powder'
It goes dark and glassy as the methenol is cooked off'
Then light yellow brown when ground'
So boil the seeds' salt out' dry' wash out the alks with methanol' evaporate the spirit' grind the resulant product'

Blessings'

Nobuoni +

For sure that much of the original would have been very clouding for myself. But I'm a little skeptical due to the short duration especially with such a high dose of DMT involved.

Quote :-

Tetrahydroharmine is present in Banisteriopsis caapi sometimes as the main alkaloid, but more often in slightly lesser amounts than harmine. It’s present in very small amounts in Peganum harmala. Some Peganum harmala lacks this alkaloid. Tetrahydroharmine is active as an MAOI in the 100-200 mg range. Its effects are extremely mild compared with harmine and harmaline. It does not cause mental clouding like harmine or harmaline and tends to help you focus and gather your thoughts together. It’s more euphoric and generally more pleasant than harmine or harmaline. In the doses used for pharmahuasca it’s neither sedating nor stimulating. Most people prefer it over harmine and harmaline because it leaves you far more clear headed. Pharmahuasca high in harmine is very similar to certain types of real ayahuasca.


Bliss

Nobuoni +

Does anyone know of anyone having any success with the zinc/Hcl method?

do you still need to follow the dietary guidelines with small doses of sublingual THH?
i have always avoided rue and caapi, from fear of a hypotensive reaction.

I've found with high doses of harmalas it's good to have something light just after consumption. Even once after 200mg harmala I had some fairly painful stomach cramps. A couple of slices of toast sorted that out. This incident was a one of.

As you are talking about sublingual which bypasses the stomach you should be okay. I'd just try to stick to foods that will compliment the experience.

Don't forget that all chemicals effect different individuals in different ways. But dietary risks surrounding pure harmalas are usually overstated.

Most MAOIs affect tyramine metabolism. That's dangerous and requires special dietary restrictions.

Tyramine is destroyed by MAO-A enzymes in the digestive system. Food high in tyramine is dangerous to consume when taken normal MAO-A inhibitors because they permanently destroy the MAO-A enzymes allowing tyramine to pass right through for many days. That leaves your body very vulnerable and you can actually die from it.

The harmala alkaloids are a little different from the typical MAO-A inhibitors. The harmala alkaloids do not destroy MAO-A enzymes, they only temporarily bind to them, making them inactive for just a few hours. This means the harmala alkaloids are reversible MAO-A inhibitors, because they only temporarily bind to MAO-A and don’t actually destroy them like many other MAOIs do. Because of this, the harmala alkaloids are classified as RIMA compounds and not full MAOI compounds.

Tyramine is able to displace harmine, harmaline, and THH, causing them to be freed from the MAO-A enzymes, so that the tyramine is then destroyed by the MAO-A enzymes and rendered inactive. Because tyramine is still rendered inactive under the effects of harmine, harmaline, and THH, there is no need for any dietary restrictions. This is true for all RIMAs. However, complex drug interactions can occur with RIMAs and can be fatal. So while it’s safe to eat pretty much any type of normal food, taking medicinal herbs with RIMAs could be dangerous. And some foods contain drugs that normally are inactivated by MAO-A, but become active while taking a RIMA. For example, a salad made from chacruna leaves would not do anything to you normally, but if a RIMA was taken, the DMT in the leaves would become active. No one knows how many possible food items contain such drugs that might become active under the effects of a RIMA. So far, no normal food items have been shown to contain such drugs so there is no RIMA diet.

here is an example...SWIM ate two bowls of pork roast stew stuff...it was soo good...tons of pork..mushrooms..cream of mushroom..all sorts of stuff...anyway...he was pretty drunk too...too drunk...and figured a good way to sober up would be to take some pharma...so he measured out what he thought would be a low dose...60mg harmaline + 40mg THH + 30mg dmt fumarate...drank it down and proceeded to do whatever...

no nausea..nothing..but HOLY SHIT..he doesnt understand why it worked so well..but you should have seen the trails..he tells me..he could throw his trails around his hand..it was amazing..he says this was a very powerful dose..even though he was expecting lower effects..but the point is that the harmalas didnt cause any adverse reactions with the food he ate..

I am happily drinking my homemade kefir, which is fermented milk and supposedly has high levels of tyramine while on harmalas.
The only adverse effect I had with food was waking up with a blinding headache twice that was gone completely by midday, both after having a chinese takeaway and the harmalas the night before.
I can't think what could cause this, glutamate (monosodium glutamate is what chinese food is notorius for) is not a monoamine and glutamate poisoning is treated with MAOI As