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Diet restrictions with smoked Maoi Options
 
unclesyd
#1 Posted : 12/17/2011 3:59:42 PM

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So I searched a little didnt find what I was looking for really. Was wondering are the dietary requirements for smoked Caapi the same as with oral ingestion. It would seem smoking wouldnt produce such a strong Maoi effect, and so although precautions with diet need to be made, are they as severe? Like dont ingest this within 48-72 hours before/after with oral, is more like dont do this 12 hours before/after with the smoked stuff.

Thanks,

and if there is another thread discussing this could someone link it, thanks.
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#2 Posted : 12/17/2011 10:09:28 PM

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The DMT-Nexus FAQ wrote:
Unlike some pharmaceutical MAOI, the Harmalas, alkaloids present in the caapi vine and syrian rue are reversible inhibitors of MAO subtype A, while Tyramine, the component in some food that could cause problems in big amounts, is eliminated by the intact MAO-B.

In other words, in terms of food interaction, there is no big danger related to reversible MAOI use (in for example ayahuasca or pharmahuasca with harmalas). The necessity of the strict dieting for ayahuasca is an exageration.

Some people might report some negative symptoms such as headaches when mixing a heavy food consumption before/during/after harmala consumption but several other variables may also be involved that are unrelated to tyramine and harmala-food interaction (variables such as for example self-suggestion, exhaustion from the trip, vasodilation, etc). Headaches seem specially common when mixing beer and harmalas.

In any case, it is generally considered common sense to eat light before and after the use of ayahuasca and analogues (and psychedelics in general). Just follow your good sense and you should be fine. In relation to how long to wait after the last food before taking ayahuasca, this is very personal. Some like to have empty stomach and be fasting for 6 or more hours, but this is not necessary, and others feel it is even negative to fast for so long, because a too empty stomach might make one very tired during the ceremony, specialy at the end, and can also make purging a specially difficult or uncomfortable experience. Some consider better to have eaten something light (like some fruits or cereal or light sandwhich) a couple of hours before ingesting ayahuasca/analogues.

Remember: With the exception of moclobemide, which stands in the same category as harmalas as far as reversibility and food interaction goes, avoid all other pharmaceutical MAOIs !! Pharmaceutical irreversible MAOIs are VERY dangerous to take without taking strong precautions with food and drug interaction.

What IS dangerous is interaction between any MAOIs (including harmalas) and SSRI medication such as prozac, or also with stimulants such as amphetamines or others. If you're taking SSRI's, do not consume MAOIs!! Do not mix stimulants with MAOIs either! Mixing stimulants/SSRIs with MAOIs can cause Serotonin Syndrome which may lead to convulsions or even death.


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Purges
#3 Posted : 12/18/2011 10:48:49 AM

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You'll be fine. I have smoalked Changa after meals which have contained blue cheese, or with a glass of red wine etc. You could always try a small dose first just to test the water, bt to my understanding it's only really (possibly) dangerous once MAOI is in the gut...
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Super Radical
#4 Posted : 12/19/2011 4:36:51 AM

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The only bad reaction I had was with smoking changa after drinking a lot of coffee.
It was like the caffeine hit me really hard, and in waves all over my body. It was weird, and I won't do it again.

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nen888
#5 Posted : 12/19/2011 10:44:19 AM
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..some of the worst MAOI bad guts i've ever had were from smoking syrian rue, then ingesting suspect foods..40 minutes of hell with sugar-icing, coffee, lentils, sometimes purging..pins-&-needles in the limbs etc..worse than ever on ayahusaca..
as far as i understand it the MAO inhibition is not simply at the contact site of the harmala..once in the bloodstream MAO can be inhibited in gut, liver and brain, dosage dependent, regardless of the ROA..
 
endlessness
#6 Posted : 12/19/2011 11:11:00 AM

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Was it an extract of rue or pure/crude extract of rue, nen? Im wondering if vasicine/vasicinone/deoxyvasicine can have negative effects when smoking if you didnt remove them with manske.
 
ChaoticMethod
#7 Posted : 12/29/2011 8:37:56 PM

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Have a lot of Changa that I can't wait to try, but am a bit unsure since I drink coffee almost everyday.

Is a bit of coffee bad with changa? If so, how long should I wait before I can smoke it safely, after ingesting cafeine products?
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Dorge
#8 Posted : 12/30/2011 3:26:51 AM

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Never had any problems with anything period...
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skoobysnax
#9 Posted : 8/6/2014 12:01:39 AM

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ChaoticMethod wrote:
Have a lot of Changa that I can't wait to try, but am a bit unsure since I drink coffee almost everyday.

Is a bit of coffee bad with changa? If so, how long should I wait before I can smoke it safely, after ingesting cafeine products?

I am bumping this thread just to see if anyone can add some experience. I planned on trying my changa tonight but i have had coffee all morning and there was some cheese on a sandwich i ate later in the day. Would 5 hours waiting afyer that meal be ok? I am a noob to Changa so keep that in mind. Love to you all.
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AcaciaConfusedYah
#10 Posted : 8/6/2014 3:42:45 AM

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You should be fine. I drink coffee, eat cheese and smoke changa all in one day. No problems. Every now and then I enjoy a beer or two and then puff on the changa pipe. No foul situations yet... But proceed with caution...
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anrchy
#11 Posted : 8/6/2014 3:49:43 AM

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I thought i had read of some instances where people drank alcohol either before or after (cant recall) inhaling harmala and got massive headaches that lasted a real long time. Is this an isolated problem?
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DreaMTripper
#12 Posted : 8/6/2014 6:29:56 AM

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anrchy wrote:
I thought i had read of some instances where people drank alcohol either before or after (cant recall) inhaling harmala and got massive headaches that lasted a real long time. Is this an isolated problem?


Ive seen a few people mention it personally I wouldnt mix alcohol with harmalas either.
 
 
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