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psilocybin extraction/tincture tek Options
 
Fizzy
#1 Posted : 12/9/2011 10:16:29 PM
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Well hi Smile

I am sort of forced to post here as I am not a full member yet and I really want to discuss this as I looked through the internet for 4 days now searching for trustful information Smile

This article describes the extraction from powdered dried p. cubensis to an alcohol tincture.

Can anyone give some feedback about this tek? On the site there is obviously only positive feedback but can someone here verify that? Since i've heard that psilocybin as well as psilocin is only poorly soluble in ethanol. (maybe thats why the take requires heating the ethanol?)

Anyways, if this is true it will be by far SWIMs preferable way to go. Futhermore, wouldn't it be a good idea to add fumaric acid to the tincture for further stabilisation of the molecule?


Thanks for contributing
lots of love

Quote:
DOSAGE and STORAGE

On cooling and with time, the free base psilocybin molecules coalesce in the liqueur and precipitate into a whitish crystalline extract which falls to the bottom of the storage vessel. The freebase Psilocybin molecules come together fast in the cool alcohol.

Storage and dosage prep is the same. If the liqueur has already precipitated the crystals, heat the final concentrated liqueur (for example - 20 grams of dried shrooms can be extracted to 50-100 milliliters alcohol) in its storage vessel in a pot of hot water. Boil the liqueur and stir and scrape deposits from the glass as the liqueur boils lightly. Alcohol boils at a lower temperature than water. Keep the storage vessel off the bottom of the boiling water pot. Direct heat is very bad for the liqueur, making it stick. As the liqueur boils, the crystals and extract will remelt with time. The large particles of the crystals can be crushed with a long needle probe to hurry up the process. When the crystals are dissolved, administer the magic liqueur while it is HOT. Using a syringe enables uniformity and accuracy of the dosages. Keep the liqueur stirred up to keep it uniform. The hot liqueur quickly becomes cloudy (precipitate) on slight cooling. A hot temperature of the liqueur with remelted crystals is important for accurate dosage administration.

While it is hot, dispense equal portions of the liqueur (10cc-20cc) into small storage jars with watertight caps. Each small jar is allowed to cool, the cap is put on and the jar is placed into the freezer for storage. Each jar is equivalent to an exact fraction of the original dry shroom weight so that dosage can be accurately controlled and determined.

When it is time to trip, the desired liqueur jars (with potency ratings) are removed from the freezer, allowed to warm to room temps, the lids taken off, a small fan is set up blowing air across the jars mouths and the liqueur is evaporated off to a manageable "hit" (variable alcohol). The small jars then become administration vessels where the entire contents (alcohol-water-crystalline extract) can easily be completely consumed.


Wouldn't it be possible then to let the psilocybin fall out of the cool alcohol and then just siphon off the alcohol? Afterwards SWIM could also turn the psilocybin from freebase to the fumaric salt. Or am I wrong somewhere?
 

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benzyme
#2 Posted : 12/10/2011 1:38:37 AM

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psilocybin will not form salts the way other alkaloids do, the reason being the various charge states possible because of the phosphoryl group. Nichols et. al. have described removal of the group and substituting with an acetoxy group; this molecule could form a salt.

but yes, the more practical route would be an alcoholic extraction.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck

 
Fizzy
#3 Posted : 12/10/2011 3:02:49 AM
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Would the alcoholic extraction only extract the psilocybin or also psilocin?

Also, can you somehow guess an estimate of time in which the tincture remains "stable" when stored with not much oxygen, in a brown vial, in a freezer?

Might IPA be better suitable for storage? (in terms of maybe no crystals falling out of solution)


Thank you in advance Smile
 
benzyme
#4 Posted : 12/10/2011 5:23:42 AM

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I'd use everclear for tincture.
otherwise, I prefer methanol for the quick evap under vacuum.
last time I did the latter, I made a very potent tea with it.
the key thing is to make sure the material is finely ground, the cells broken up.
I've used an ultrasonic cell disruptor to break open the cells in methanol; pricey tool, but
very effective.

dried mushrooms contain primarily psilocybin, which is rather stable.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck

 
christian
#5 Posted : 12/10/2011 10:33:28 AM

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benzyme wrote:
I'd use everclear for tincture.
otherwise, I prefer methanol for the quick evap under vacuum.


-Benzyme, i take it that you would use Methanol to extract the goodies since it is cheap and effective, then evaporate it all off leaving psilocybin. To which you would add Everclear for ease of useability/dosing??
"Eat your vegetables and do as you're told, or you won't be going to the funfair!"
 
Fizzy
#6 Posted : 12/10/2011 12:10:45 PM
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What chemical tools and glassware would be needed to perform a methanol extraction? Soxhlet maybe?
 
benzyme
#7 Posted : 12/10/2011 2:56:15 PM

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christian wrote:
benzyme wrote:
I'd use everclear for tincture.
otherwise, I prefer methanol for the quick evap under vacuum.


-Benzyme, i take it that you would use Methanol to extract the goodies since it is cheap and effective, then evaporate it all off leaving psilocybin. To which you would add Everclear for ease of useability/dosing??


yes

Fizzy wrote:
What chemical tools and glassware would be needed to perform a methanol extraction? Soxhlet maybe?


that's one way, the frugal jar method as mentioned in the tek you've read is another.
I used the apparatus in my avatar, but that thing is not cheap.
as long as you can evaporate the methanol quickly, you should get a white to off-white
product. letting it sit around and evap slowly tends to leave a dark green residue
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck

 
Fizzy
#8 Posted : 12/11/2011 1:08:07 AM
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benzyme wrote:
dried mushrooms contain primarily psilocybin, which is rather stable.


Can you elaborate on how stable it is? How long did you store it and under which conditions? How many percent of the resulting crystals are actually psilocybin rather than proteins and such?

If I need to use lab tools for a quick (oxygen free, I guess?) evaporation (I am not capable of evaporating under vacuum) then I guess I must buy a soxhlet device, or can you recommend something else?
 
benzyme
#9 Posted : 12/11/2011 1:37:28 AM

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Fizzy wrote:
How many percent of the resulting crystals are actually psilocybin rather than proteins and such?


do you know what's needed to make this sort of determination? LC-MS.
While I have worked with this type of instrumentation before, I haven't tested a psilocybin extraction.

it isn't like psilocin, which has that unprotected hydroxy group; so it isn't degraded by light or air. you don't even need inert atmosphere to extract it.
centrifugation can separate proteins from the alkaloids

"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck

 
christian
#10 Posted : 12/11/2011 9:05:53 AM

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Seems like a simple enough process. I read elsewhere that the crystals give DMT like effects when vaped. Strange how we hear so few reports of people using this simple, effective tek.
"Eat your vegetables and do as you're told, or you won't be going to the funfair!"
 
Purges
#11 Posted : 12/11/2011 9:41:37 AM

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Next time I have mushies, I'm doing this! The nausea has always been a big turn off for me... Thanks for the share!
Lose Control, Free My Soul, Break Me Open, Make Me Whole.
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Madcap
#12 Posted : 12/11/2011 4:14:13 PM

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If you go back in some of the forums with archives from early 2000's. You will find ome stuff about this tek. The general consensus (not unanimous). Is that the "crystal" are actually just sugars or something from the mushies.

I never tried smoking the crystals as they melt when out of solution.

Googling psilocybin crystals of the gods will bring up plenty of people's attempts at this.... Minus the centrifuge.

The liquid produced does, in fact, rock your face. Feels just like dried shrooms and a shot of everclear.

I was hoping to get the psilocybin out with alcohol and convert to psilocin before dosing....never did though.

Please keep us posted, bet of luck.

All posts written by Madcap should be regarded as fiction.
 
benzyme
#13 Posted : 12/11/2011 4:50:36 PM

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I've posted a thread on methanol extraction in the mushroom section (you know, madcap...you posted in it)
I was left with a coating of white product on the flask, no liquid. I added hot tea to it, and it proceeded to kick my ass 12 minutes after imbibing it.

the "crystals" are a mixture of alkaloids and intracellular components.
again, lysing the cells is important for good yield.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck

 
Madcap
#14 Posted : 12/12/2011 3:02:36 AM

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Madcap wrote:
Yeah... I got the impression that without the rotovap, I 'd likely end up with goo. so, I continue to do ethanol extractions... or just make a tea.

Has anyone actually smoked the crystals and gotten off?




SnozzleBerry wrote:
benzyme wrote:
btw.. Dr. Shulgin's commentary of psilocybin extractions are purely speculative. His hypothesis that pure psilocybin may be obtained from alcoholic extractions is inaccurate, as alcohols also pull fungal carbohydrates.

Yea, I thought it was interesting reading his answer to that question as "probably pure psilocybin" when I thought it was generally thought that those precipitates are proteins or other stuff.


All posts written by Madcap should be regarded as fiction.
 
benzyme
#15 Posted : 12/12/2011 3:35:39 AM

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i have not...i'll have to repeat the experiment, and try that.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck

 
Fizzy
#16 Posted : 12/12/2011 10:11:37 AM
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So as this thread seems to have benzymes attention, I'm going to ask him something Smile

Is there a device in general that can "evaporate off" a solvent to stay with the solids dissolved in it but also saves the solvent in a separate flask for reuse? Is this what a rotary evaporator is supposed to do? Can this somehow be accomplished via soxhlet?

It is just that where I live, methanol is hard to come by and if I manage to aquire let's say 5 liters, I sort of want to keep them for further extractions Razz
 
benzyme
#17 Posted : 12/12/2011 1:02:55 PM

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a soxhlet setup can do this by the addition of a pressure-equalizing dropping funnel between the extractor body and the condenser. the stopcock is open for cycling, and closed when recollecting the solvent.

and yes, what you described is how a rotavapor works.
simple distillation of the methanol is another way of reclaming your solvent
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck

 
ragabr
#18 Posted : 12/12/2011 2:06:32 PM

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benzyme wrote:

it isn't like psilocin, which has that unprotected hydroxy group; so it isn't degraded by light or air. you don't even need inert atmosphere to extract it.

The first time SWIM attempted this, she acidified with citric acid, with the thoughts of having psilocin instead. Does this mean exposure to light has degraded the product, or is it unlikely the citric acid actually converted the psilocybin to psilocin?
PK Dick is to LSD as HP Lovecraft is to Mushrooms
 
Fizzy
#19 Posted : 12/16/2011 11:24:16 PM
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I would assume so, as psilocin seems to be anywhere far away from stable. Maybe next time dont acidify and report back concerning results?
 
nen888
#20 Posted : 12/17/2011 5:26:54 AM
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..here is a great old lycaeum thread for those interested in "Simple Psilocybin & Psilocin Extraction": http://forums.lycaeum.org/index.php?topic=26844.0..also, apparently the original Albert Hoffman psilocybin extraction tek produces a blue/grey 'crystal' which can be smoked to produce a 45 minute experience [Jim deKorne in his final issue as editor of E.R. - he had successfully done this, but was surprised others hadn't..]
.
ps. anyone got the Hoffman '50s paper? i believe it used a chloroform wash, an acetone wash, and then extraction into basic methanol..

.
 
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