(I was going to post this in the General DMT forum, but if this mistake isn't indicative of the type of naivety that belongs in the Welcome Area, then I don't know what is)

Last night, I was with a few friends and I was telling them about how incredible the DMT experience is. I never should've brought it up. After a while, one of the friends said she wanted to try it. She offered to reimburse me but I declined her money. I was careful to emphasise that it's a mind-blowing experience: Pure madness, at times. I should've known from the beginning that it was foolish to think that everybody should partake of this experience. She asked things like "Am I going to freak out?", my answer being, "Not as long as you're ready and willing to face anything that you experience during the trip". What I should've said was that that's the point: That the point of using DMT is to experience something so abstract and unfathomable that the only sensible reaction is to freak out (a reaction that we learn to suppress through acceptance of the experience).

In the bedroom, holding the machine, she asked if she could walk outside if she felt too weird during the experience. I tried explaining to her that DMT isn't something that you do before going for a walk, the experience happens in the mind, not in this reality. I should've known then and there that the full-blown beauty of the DMT experience would be lost on this person, but I didn't have the good sense to call the whole thing off. She couldn't seem to hold it in for long enough, or maybe she just didn't want to. I took a miniscule hit to demonstrate how to clear the machine and how long to hold in the hit. This was a bad idea, of course, because there's no way to show somebody else how DMT is smoked without accidentally dipping your toes into hyperspace. "That doesn't look like fun", she remarked while observing me observe the onset of a slight DMT experience.

It wasn't a remarkable experience for me. I spent it being the object of several people's curious gazes, and I realized that some people aren't cut out for experiences like "this". I realized that experiences like DMT can't just be handed to a curious friend. You have to come to it like any other stepping stone in your life, and if you don't have the patience and dedication to spend a few days doing your own extraction and building your own machine for such an experience that only lasts 15 minutes, doesn't taste particularly good, and doesn't allow you to go out partying at the same time, then you are a recreational drug user, and you have no business exploring advanced realms of consciousness.

This was my realization. It was followed by a lot of shame for having thought that everybody would embrace pure psychedelic experience with the same exuberance and sense of appreciation that I do. I've always assumed that every recreational drug user is a potential psychonaut, but I don't think I believe that any more. Some people have ties to their normal everyday lives that are so strongly engrained in who they are that there may be no hope of waking them up to the true meaning of consciousness. I was foolish to think that I could so easily share the experience that comes so easily to me. I think I now have a better idea of what type of people are not capable of appreciating experiences like that brought on by DMT, as well as a better idea of the consequences of trying to introduce people to it instead of letting those who are worthy (I hate using that word) seek it out for themselves.

Lesson learned.

All in all, I don't feel good about saying that some recreational drug users shouldn't try to use psychedelic drugs, but I think that this attitude (in me, at least) stems from the fact that I've done psychedelic drugs with many others who seem to just be weekend philosophers; people who do it for fun and don't particularly care about any of the spiritual implications/benefits. I guess this type of abuse (as I see it) degrades the public image of such drugs that otherwise have tremendous potential for life-long positive impact. If I want any type of response to this post, it's input on how other psychonaut's on this forum view recreational drug use; Is it degrading to these sacramental drugs or is necessary in order to weed out the spiritually fit? Are there lost causes, or does everyone have the potential to deeply appreciate psychedelic experience.

Attitude is very important when it comes to this matter. One shouldn't be so naive to think it will suit everyone who's tried LSD for example.

This is why I generally don't even offer people DMT. I have offered it to certain individuals, but generally I think the people who really want to try it will seek it out themselves.

I've had the experience of sharing our thing with others and not getting the kind of reaction (before or after) that I really would have hoped for. Ultimately, it's probably my issue. People are who they are, and they can't all be expected to hold the same things dear as I do.

I turned on three people I didn't know one evening about six months ago. A mutual friend had sent me to them. Two of the three had done it before (although not a great deal, possibly not correctly, and they couldn't tell me anything about dosage levels). All three just wanted to get right down to it, but their overly casual presentations were making somewhat uncomfortable. So, I basically held them hostage for an hour while I talked about what to expect, what it means to me, and so on and so on and so on. I was disappointed when they asked the wrong questions and wouldn't put away their blackberrys, and (somewhat less so) afterwards as well, having administered fairly deep introductory doses to all of them and then solid breakthroughs for two of the three, that they then immediately wanted to go out and get their party on.

I've also introduced people who have burst into tears upon immediate re-entry and then called me a year afterwards to tell me they they still think about it daily. So, you take the good with the bad, I guess. Just try and always be responsible when breaking in virgin brains. Be a living example and hope that the person you're sharing it with is someone capable of being moved by the most magnificent beauty that they will ever encounter in this lifetime. If not, what can you really do? As is said around here often, "it's really not for everyone".

The public image of all recreational drugs is tainted with predjudice. ( with the exception of alcohol) It'd be an uphill struggle to convince the "public" that DMT is better than say , XTC , Cocaine.
As for the users of recreational drugs themselves, you will find a few who are genuinely suited to heavy psychedelics, just depends on the personality IMO.

Choose your traveling friends wisely.

Good post hixidom... don't feel shame and don't feel foolish. You are an open being that's trying to show the light to all curious minds. There's a reason why some just can't handle the spice... it wasn't meant to be... you felt that your friends would be able to handle such a profound experience and there's nothing at all wrong with having that elevated view of your friends. You even demonstrated a "light trip" to the crowd and if anything you're a guide (a lot better than some people SWIM knows who have been known to "lace" a bowl with a breakthrough dose, unbeknownst to the participants, just to "see what happens" :evil: ). SWIM has also came to the realization that DMT just isn't for everyone.

When SWIM first tried it he wanted every close friend and family member to try this spice with him( felt it could help EVERYONE). After turning on a "few" souls to the spirit molecule SWIM felt great. During one session though SWIM had invited over a few friends and family to show them the love of DMT (around 5 people). One of SWIM's family members watched him during the trip and midway through the trip she began to talk, and not only talk but actually talk negative about what was transpiring in front of her eyes, even though SWIM had told everyone to be silent. It aggravated SWIM but at the same time it gave SWIM an epiphany of sorts.... everyone is just not meant to be in hyperspace.

Needless to say that family member was politely told to kick rocks and hit the dusty trail... SWIM does not allow outside negativity and lack of respect to enter his realms while "hyperspacing"(inner negativity can't be helped, sometimes a bad trip can be a learning experience)... the simple fact that said family member disrespected SWIM's orders and disrespected the spice at the same time was enough to reevaluate the type person she was...

Those meant for the gift will get the present no doubt... don't worry hixi you did no wrong in trying to show people this wonderful place... I'm glad you took something from this realization and I'm glad it did not throw you off...

hixidom, I hope the person that had a bad time was ok in the end. You live and learn i guess, but its hard to know how some people will react, even when they have done many other psychedelics before.

I have introduced a few people to our sacred molecule and most have had life-affirming/changing experiences. I do only give it to my closest friends whom i know for sure will gain something from the experience. There have been a number of people who have asked me for some and i just know they would take the wrong attitude towards it, which could ultimately get me into a lot of trouble. All i tell those people is "research it" and if they can take the time to learn about it and extract it themselves, then i feel they would probably be ready for the experience.

I feel so happy that i managed to take the time to extract it for my first experience, as it made the whole thing that much more special.

Edit: I just remembered that there was one time last year where two of my close friends and i went into my friends field in the back of his farm and as we were taking turns with the pipe when suddenly this girl i hardly knew strolled up just wanting to get "high" for free. She would do it with everyone for pretty much any drug. I had just lit my pipe and she sat next to me pleading to give her some and it completely threw me into a doom place. She then got up and stormed off in a huff, as all i could do was ignore her. I had to explain to her afterwards that what she did was completely childish and stupid and that she should be glad that i didn't give her any. Some people just don't get it.

So hixidom, what happened to your friend?

I wrote about this sort of thing happening in another thread just yesterday. Coincidence? Ofcourse, but it's a shame it wasn't prevented. I hope your friend is doing alright.

First off thank you for posting that honest report. im sure it was not easy. Imo. it is something i think you need to seek for one,s self. but at the same time had it not been for forums like this one. i could have never found the true info one needs for such a powerful molecule.. eversince i found it i have wanted to shout it from the roofs. i have 2 brothers that i think could use the understanding. but am reluctant to show them. i have friends i know who could benefit from the understanding.. still i hold back. i think because im just not sure how it will go.i would find offence if taken lightly. i have just to much respect for it. so all i can do is tell them to look into it ,research it. if it calls to them. then it is ment to be. if my brother saw this as a great way to just get ripped. it would break my heart. because of the friends i knoew here and the wisdom of so many before me. to me it needs to be shared but at what cost. so for now when i see someone in great pain with life. all i can do is give out a thought. and hope the wheels spin in the right direction.. again i think you for your post. sorry it got so little respect. but truly glad you have it. and now even more..going through life half awake is just fine with most people. because when shown the light they can nolonger hide there actions and live with it..much love Oden

Shared the last of my stash with about 6 or 7 people the other day. For the most part, everyone had a good trip, though two people said they didn't trip at all. One was originally nervous about it, and the other had too high of an expectation. They didn't get it. But with that said, I have never had a breakthrough experience around another person. The only way to have a truly good experience is to do it completely alone without worry of another person showing up.

to me all drugs are recreational, i don't use psychedelics as a "tool" like some people do and there is nothing spiritual or sacred about any psychedelic drug (at least when im sober), they are to me just chemicals that alter the way my brain works.

i take them purely because i enjoy the effects, i enjoy the warped reality, the crazy visuals and euphoria they give.

it doesn't bother me to say some people shouldn't use psychedelic drugs but on the basis that they don't have enough respect for how powerful they are, not that they use them recreationally.

She said she only wanted to try a little. I told her she wouldn't experience anything unless she took at least a moderate rip... She didn't. I think DMT is one of those drugs that you have to be willing to fully dive into if you really want to know what it's about. (I feel like I'm quoting another forum post here. Maybe somebody came across it)

settings, I remember, a while back, reading an interview of Timothy Leary (I think that's who it was) where he was condemning recreational use of psychedelic drugs and labeling it as abuse, and I remember thinking to myself "who does this guy think he is!". So, remembering that reaction and seeing what I just wrote about recreational drug users is kind of throwing me off. I don't really know what type of behavior I'm trying to lash out against anymore. I think what it comes down to is fear and the sense of adventure. I don't mind people who do drugs recreationally and for fun as long as they have a sense of adventure because, at the end of the day, people who embrace all kinds of experience are rejecting fear and are willing to take whatever comes, no matter how extreme and absurd it is. On the other hand, people like my friend seem to be afraid that they'll experience something awesome. They want to restrict, rather than expand, the reaches of their mind because it makes them feel safe. I don't know why, but it almost makes me furious that some people are content to limit the range of their perceptions to the tiny realm of events that our normal waking state allows.

One thing that I don't think I hit on that a lot of you who responded did mention was "respect". I feel that the experience of normal life is at least as amazing as that of DMT, and going through life without any sense of appreciation or respect for how incredible it is seems wrong to me in the same sense that using psychedelic drugs without respect and awareness of how powerful they are seems wrong. I don't think that what is bothering me has anything to do with spirituality or god or even psychedelic drugs, for that matter. I think it has more to do with people building their lives around fear instead of amor fati.

you are understanding how important respect is.. its what so many on this planet have lost,and why so many do great harm... stay strong and change all you can. hurt people hurt, healed people heal...peace

One can adjust the lenght of the experience by taking more than one blast off... And the taste is rather good if the spice is pure and vaporized at proper temperature

Great thread. A lot of my attitude is represented here by other users which is reassuring. I have had friends trying to call me at 6am after a rave trying to get hold of some to experiment with (for the first time!). Luckily I wasn't near my phone, so I didn't get the call, but another initiated friend who was there told me about it later. I put it down to ignorance and moved on, sure it irked me a little bit, but I think people think it will be like a 10 minute acid trip, which might be quite nice after a night on the tiles.

On the flip side I have friends who partake with me, and understand the depth and gravity of the experience. It takes guts to do this repeatedly, and it takes respect and a certain degree of caution which I think a few of my 'normal' drug taking mates just don't get at the moment. They still ask about it, and I tell them about deeply spiritual, personal experiences that really don't fit in with the party vibe. I try to emphasise that this stuff is not a toy and should only be ventured into with an attitude of reverance.

One thing is for sure, I am not going to hand it out like I would a joint at a party, and I have to feel comfortable with the person who is receiving, which usually means they are a close trusted friend who I have been in deep altered states with before, and even then they get the whole pre-amble of "you can't truly prepare for what you are about to experience" - and that generally weeds out the intrepid from the casual.

So far 3 of the 4-5 people I have introduced have had deep, transformative experiences, while my GF is still dipping her toes in the shallow end - I am very keen for her to have a break through experience, but it HAS to be on her terms, the last thing I want to do is be pushy and end up with her being a quivering mess lol. Some times I wonder if I am doing too good a job scaring people off, but I have to remind myself that this is an experience you have to REALLY want, and for me, I did - which led to extractions, creating my own Changa blends, and a lot of research into the esoteric, as well as a real desire to take a more spiritual path. I feel like I have been rewarded on all of these fronts because I have put the work in, and as a result feel like it is a necessary part of choosing this route. It gets lonely some times, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

I think you guys are spot on here. People need to know the depths that this molecule can take them. They need to know it's not just for fun and that not only can it be extremely intense, but it can aslo be; brutal, terrorfying, difficult, beautiful, and loving. It took me a long time to come to aya and finally perform my own extractions. I just don't think I was ready. I had a friend that was going to take aya with me, but backed out at the last minute - the time just wasn't right. Two months later he called and I just happened to be prepared - it was a beautiful transformation!

I tell people I'm coming for their souls. So they can finally be awakened to who they are and get in touch with themselves. If they are ready, they know it and if not, they usually tell me. I have one friend who has more demons than I can deal with and after a particualrily disturbing vision with mhrb and chali, we went no further.

Before I journey with someone on aya, I like to take them on what lovingly refer to as a cactus walk. We take the tea together and spend the next 12 or 13 hours discussing life. Mushrooms can be just as beneficial for getting into someone's head as well, but the cactus has a special quality to it for me. After exploring their reasons and desires and just opening up like that, it becomes much easier to see what their intentions are.

It's a process and it takes some time, but for me and the people that I have helped, it has been well worth the effort.

I think there is nothing to compare it to.
For most the actual power of this stuff is not even a remote concept. Generally, limited known drug experience is the only reference point and it doesn't even come close to representing a potential dmt journey . This thing is not really a drug in the traditional sense. There is an understandable complete underestimation of its potential power . Even after many many journeys i sometimes ask myself "how is this possible? .

The other part of it is , you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Not everyone is going to get it,
even terrence M talks about this when he describes various people he turned on over the years.

I think its tricky ground envolving other people , i've generally stopped talking about it to anyone other than my inner sanctum of friends that are in the Know. I realize now , in a compassionate way that not everyone is meant to deal with this and thats ok.

how i see it is drugs like MDMA, alcohol and cannabis have effects that most of the time people just enjoy with little prior knowledge of what might happen. a breakthrough dose of DMT or salvia on the other hand require a mindset and understanding that most people just don't have.

i see it being no different to liking rollercoasters, i know people who love them and people who hate them, the people who hate them feel exactly the same forces as the people that love them, the only difference is people that love them enjoy the very thing that other people hate. however people can learn to enjoy rollercoaster which is why i think people can learn to like DMT.

if you take someone to a theme park who has never been on a rollercoaster chances are they will see one, see how people are reacting and get an idea of what they are about. at this point you will get some people who would without doubt want to go on one and some people who struggle to even watch. now if you put both people on a ride chances are the person who liked the look of it will enjoy it and the person who is terrified will hate it.

i think that is a bit like how trip reports work with drugs, they are useful for deciding who will probably have a positive experience and who will have a negative experience.

so IMO i think the best way of sharing DMT is to tell people about it, but then tell them to have a read about it and decided for themselves if they want to try it and if they do, come back to you.

that way it will weed out the people who would likely hate it as a few trip reports are going to be all they need to see to decide its not for them. its the same with me and datura, i only had to read 2 trip reports to decide that is not something i will be taking any time soon.

as well as weeding out people who wouldn't enjoy it, it also decreases the chances of people who would potentially have a good trip having a bad trip as they will have a much better idea of what to expect. when i first got a decent dose of DMT not being able to feel myself breath or my heart beating at what felt like 10BMP didn't bother me at all because i had read countless times that it was normal. someone who hasn't had this explained multiple times to them might think they are going into cardiac arrest which cant be fun.

to sum it up i can't think of anyone i would just give DMT to, i would insist they do their own research first to decide if it's for them.

That's true. I've also been thinking about getting some caapi.


Yes. I've done DMT about 3 times now. The last time I did it, I sat for about 15 minutes, before smoking it, trying to get my whole body to stop shaking. As much as I feel like I'm mentally prepared for what I'm going to experience, it's like part of my body is still utterly terrified of the experience. Does anybody else ever feel like this? I'm sure that even some of the people who love roller coasters find themselves shaking when the carts are making their climb. I guess I'm still developing my love for the unknown.

Sublingual caapi plus vaped DMT = My fav.

I can say the more you explore the more used you get to it. Same thing as tropical person getting used to northern winter.
The more I have explored, the more has my anxiety been transformed to respect and luv.