Alright look... Jesus was a real dude, I believe he was the Son of God and died for our sins... BUT... I also believe in the teachings of Buddha and of the Taoist and of many other religions.

All religions and prophets are true and real... they all just veiw god from different points and history and from different perspective and interpretied it differently.



These are amazing human who were able to connect with God... Buddha, Jesus all of them were just enlightened humans... Any man could have died for our sins, we are all the Sons of God, Jesus just choose to cry out during his torture and proclaim that man is good! Imagine the effect that had on the father... enough to forgive the sins of all of humanity!

Thats the way I see it anyway...

Hey man thanks for putting this in another thread as when I get into these discussions it gets heavy so I didn't want to derail the other guys thread as much as I disagree with his opinion.



I should first add that I do not believe in the concept of god as expressed by christianity, judiasm, islam (i notice how you have not included mohammad in your list of religious figures why not? was jesus better?) nor most other religions. I think anyone is capable of connecting with this thing we think is some kind of god. Either with substances or with other altered states of consciousness or simply having a unique brain. So I am 100% against people using their message (or anyone else using their message) as some kind of way of understanding god. No way! If I can contact the same thing (notice I do not even call it god because I do not think there is such thing as a god) then they were not special at all. Did they make a fuss about it? Well yes a fuss was raised but who cares? Most religions have only lead to death and destruction and the dumbing down of the human mind.

As of now we have no reason as a society to keep believing in god (even morally). We do however have a reason to keep asking why we are here and how our world and universe came to be and how we can respect it for our childrens childrens etc etc children. We even have a reason to investigate what we our deep inside what our consciousness is and what will happen when it dies. However the way to do that is through science and self exploration not religion! The same goes for other forms of life on this earth it all should live in a sensible balance we should try to preserve respect and care for it when possible. We do not need religion to do that! Religion on the other hand messes most of that up by confusing people to make them believe in stupid fairy tales.

We can continue this discussion about religion but realize you are speaking someone who does not believe a word of it thinks its crap and wishes for a day when others will realize this and we can finally as a species move on from this backwards way of viewing the world. So I do not mean to offend you on purpose (or anyone else who gets involved) but I might so don't take it personally.

You say that all religions are right and true but they got some major things wrong. Such as the age of the earth how it got here, how we evolved to be here (yes evolution is real!) etc etc. So why buy into it? What good does it do? It tells more things that are wrong then true.

I should also add that I am 100% in favor of the freedom of religion as set out in the U.S. Constitutions bill of rights (a document I like very much and anyone even if not american should read). So don't think based on what I said that I think anyone has any right to tell anyone how what and when to worship anything. But also realize I firmly believe in the freedom of speech meaning the freedom of people like me to speak out against religion and its harms on the mind and society.

Naw just forgot him... I didn't list Lao Tzu either and he is by far my favorite.

I think your concept of a "Christian" god is based on modern Christian'ss own personal concepts of God, which I believe differs greatly from the way ancient people viewed God.



You only don't wanna call it "God" because you connect that was the hatred Christians. Call the it the "Big Fluffy Ball of Spirits" if you want... it's God. It's Tao. It's whatever.



Bullshit.

All you people who are agaist religion are mostly agiast it cause you grew up with a bunch of damn bible beating christians. Check out like Taoism and stuff... all religion isn't bullshit american christianity!!



We will soon discover religion and science are one in the same, progessing towards one truth.



Hahaha you are so blinded! Your just like the damn christians! Of course evolution is real! You think God created animals by snapping his fingers?! No! That monkey didn't just decide to stand up one day... God said "Stand up motherfucker!" and it was so!

And here we go... Now did the monkey actually here a voice in his head telling him to stand up? I'm no monkey but probably not... the monkey and the monkey's thought processes, everything really, is a part of God (or spirit or whatever).

How about the great flood? It was real!!!

Ok good I am glad we cleared up the definition of god. Fluffy ball of spirits works best. Anyway who's to say that anything is infused with spirit? See post on mystical experiences to get details of why I make that claim. I don't want to repeat it all.

I am not sure I believe in some kind of great spirit because to me its all nature. Its all chemical and physical processes going on making things tick. Could there be something deeper then that be making it tick? Of course but would you consider that god or a spirit if so why? Maybe we should move to my other thread because its already got much of this kind of thing talked about in it.


Ok yes I have read into taoism and many other eastern philosophies and some of them I have more respect for. But yes they basically are describing things that science is too they just call it something else. They just describe it with poetry not mathematics and other details as they often shun logical disciplines (well zen does at least).

I think we are typing at the same time hehe. Realize I understand all the philosophies you are talking about and understand them.

I don't think it was god that told the monkey to stand up. It was the need to survive and eat that got the monkey to stand up. I also don't think the great flood was real. Yes there was probably a flood in that area but god didn't make it. Nature made it. You can call god and nature the same thing but why use the term god? God implies something else. There was definately not some guy named Noah who took 2 of each animal on a boat thats total complete nonsense and if you believe in that I will no longer continue this discussion.

Gonna have to disagree with that... anybody who complelety "understands" Taoism is well... a horrible Taoist.

^^ Well your right and thats what I mean by I understand it. The phrases and poems are just describing something thats indescribable.

Anyway I think we should slow down before this gets too heated. I think you are judging me prematurely. Please read my other post as I described many of my beliefs and philosophies on what mystical experiences are which kind of ties into what I think god is although I don't call it god because god implies too much.

Do I understand everything? No not at all and I don't claim too. Any religion that claims to is wrong. In fact I am quite happy not to understand everything and to continue learning. Do I read religious text? Sometimes but mostly I find that science gives me more clear better answers to the questions I have both morally and spiritually (although I don't like to word spiritual for the same reasons I don't like the word god).

Haha, still don't think you can "understand it".... I think your missing the point!

Maybe I'm missing the point? Maybe... maybe there isn't any point at all?

Ya I didn't read the whole thing, hang on...

O and BTW... you CAN'T offend me. It's impossible.



Thats why I like Taoism and some of the other eastern religions.

^^ I think thats the point. haha

Really though I don't want to start some silly argument about religion because I have many biases towards some major religions that I think are well founded. Many people use different language to describe different things and it does create a great deal of misunderstanding, like with us now and I am glad I cannot offend you because sometimes religious or spiritually inclined people do get offended by what I say (even if we are talking about something similar).

The reason I asked about Jesus in your original post was that I don't know I really think jesus was even that exceptional of a guy. I think there was a lot of people around at that time doing similar things and he was the one that made a big fuss. If we call nature or whatever makes the universe tick god then we are all gods children and no one is more special then anyone else. People should be judged based on their character and how they treat each other not some magical things that they claim they saw. So I kind of don't look at these people as that special is what I am saying. I find their personal beliefs the ones you can actually figure out that aren't totally wrapped up and warped by the 2000 years of telephone nice and fine but I don't need them much in my life to be happy and I don't think many others do either.

Although I do adhere to one of Jesus's so called beliefs to treat others as you would like to be treated although I think I could have come to that conclusion without knowing anything about Jesus.

I think Jesus was an amazing man. While many people were killed and tortured at that time, how many called out to God (of whatever diety they may have believed in) during their toture and cryed out for the sins of man to be forgiven?

That takes an amazing person by anybodys standards.

I also think he was an enlightened person, deeply connected with God and he performed miracle and healings.

Ok those are the things I don't believe in and we can have a reasonable discussion on why or why not. Define miracle and healing? You mean the ones in the bible?

I just don't think its possible for someone to walk on water or to heal someone by simply touching their head. I also don't think its possible to feed someone with one loaf of bread unless he used that bread to do something else like grow more wheat or something. I think these stories are either not true or heavily exagerrated.

There is a lot of those preachers who claim to heal people by touching them on the head but its all placebo its just people being told they are being healed and thats why they think or maybe do get better.




I think a lot called out to god but perhaps the difference between them and jesus (again if he was a real person) was that yes jesus forgave the people who were torturing him and called on god to do the same. But I do not think any fluffy ball of spirits heard it and then said oh ok man is good now we can give them eternity in heaven. Those are the things I really don't think are real at all. I also don't think jesus rose from the dead because thats impossible. People don't rise from the dead. No one is so special that they get to rise from the dead. At least physically you can get all metaphysical and say his spirit rose but that doesn't really mean much to me because again the notion of spirit.

I think there are these things called physical natural laws that cannot in this universe yet be changed (doesn't mean they were not different in the past or won't be different in the future because we have no idea what was going on then or what will be going on then). We do not know them all but they are there and they do dictate certain things. They perhaps are bendable and changable under certain circumstances but to think that some man named jesus because he was so special and enlightened could do that is to me more like a fairy tale then reality.

Anyway I gotta go home! Haha the nexus gets so distracting sometimes! But really we can continue talking about these issues because its reasonable I think I see how you are viewing religion but I will try not and judge and just let you explain yourself and we can discuss.

I just don't think its possible for someone to walk on water or to heal someone by simply touching their head.

I think it is... look into quatom touch and things like that. Channeling energy to heal is very real.

Theres many records of Jesus being real why is that even a question? Like some people want to ask if the Buddha and Lao Tzu were real actual people.... of course they were!

but to think that some man named jesus because he was so special and enlightened could do that is to me more like a fairy tale then reality.

Any man could have done it, Jesus just choose to.

What if someone like me, who has a case of neurosis stepped into this equation to add a twist.

Frankly from time to time I barely believe in myself and my own life none the less focusing on a religion. Mentally my mind is scattered and nothing but chaos. If I were to put myself into the mindset of a human being, making the assumption that maybe my life was possibly real (which indeed it is possible, but my contradictions leave me to question that it may not be, and it surely feels like a dream to which I can mold and shape and create, but everything is presumably possible)

I would believe in a single conciousness which resides within everyone and everything, even subconciously in those unaware, or none the less unattoned to. Everything, and everyone is god to some degree whether or not they believe in it, or are in disbelief (like me), or someone who may be ignorant and unaware to look inside themselves and embrace the god within, because of a focus on another belief.

The great big fluffy ball of spirits of everything.

But I still decide on whether or not that is real, or if I actually am who I am typing this now.

Excellent post dude!

I agree!

^^Yes at the end of the day a lot of this stuff isn't proven or disproven so it comes down to what you believe in. I personally don't see any reason to believe in anything above or beyond nature. What I call nature you might call god.

But there are cases where beliefs are wrong. For example that shroud thing that supposedly belonged to jesus was proved to be false so people who believed in it were wrong. I can't prove that Jesus didn't walk on water all I can say is that I have never seen anyone walk on water and until I do I don't really believe that story. The same goes for most other things the bible or any other holy book claims.



If people who do these kind of things want to be taken seriously they have to just stop calling things channeling energy or quatom touching (I dont know what that is sorry) and start dong serious investigations into their mechanisms. They also need to demonstrate statistically significant findings to make me think its true. Until then I call it placebo. You can give someone a pill thats filled with water and they can still heal just because they have a more positive attitude and their body hence is functioning better. I don't just disregard things like this as total bullshit as you might think, unless I have a reason too.

Yes at the end of the day a lot of this stuff isn't proven or disproven so it comes down to what you believe in. I personally don't see any reason to believe in anything above or beyond nature. What I call nature you might call god.


I think your right... I was about to say "nature is God".

It's all words. What can you take from it? We don't need a book to tell us that killing is wrong. We don't need a book to save our souls. If the words enlighten you, it only matters in life. The Bible has a lot of filler. Shit, to be a Christian all you need is the New Testament. At present, there are still books being written and read. Ancient text is ancient history. David Icke connected with "God." I'm still not sure we're being controlled by reptilian shape shifters, but he wrote some fucking books on that shit! Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John all interacted with this guy that was talking to God. He was claiming he was God. They reported on what they witnessed. Organized religion is truly the opiate of the masses as a result. They probably meant no harm, but harm came of it. Jesus indirectly killed thousands with his message of peace. He probably wasn't expecting the Crusades.

Of course, Icke says the Bible was created as part of the Illuminati conspiracy, but he didn't walk on water.

I think Nature holds the power of "god". But us as humans, we're all "god"... but for us, its whether or not we choose to embrace that "god", and do what we assume is right because as humans we have a choice. But something along the lines of nature, resides merely netural while holding a essential key.

That is just a stupid comment... people hijack philosophies and religions all the time to justify things they do, it's not Jesus's fault!

The only problem I have with that statement is the human part. What about other animals or forms of life? What about non living things? What about matter in general or the energy that makes it up? Where does it end? hehe

I think everything is God pretty much.... Perhaps Tao is a better word than God...


We're all part of the grand cycle!