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What are the current views, facts and theories on DMT-N-OXIDE? Options
 
nen888
#41 Posted : 11/23/2011 12:04:57 PM
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endlessness wrote:
Quote:
BTW nen, I remember you mentioned some visualizing reagent you thought was better than xanthydrol, am I correct? Which one was it?
..it was silico-tungustic acid reagent found to be better than dragendorfs or mayers for color differentiation of tryptamines, Dozuki i think was using xanthydrol...
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
nen888
#42 Posted : 1/5/2012 6:56:32 AM
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..so, looks like the mystery jungle alkaloid is probably mainly NMT..https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d...osts&t=27724&p=1..that would certainly make a difference to the effects..https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/NMT#Effects it has a higher melting point than DMT..the rest is probably trace ß-carbolines which may be breakdown products of DMT or NMT..
looked like the possible oxide was only in one of the tested jungle spice samples..

..ps. endlessness, i still swear by silico-tungustic acid for color differentiating between tryptamines..
 
nen888
#43 Posted : 12/13/2012 5:46:17 AM
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..posted this in a thread by Apoc recently:
Quote:
i did some experiments a little while ago i haven't written up yet to try and make DMT-N-Oxide..basically i left DMT in very basic solution for a week before pulling with NP..

..the oxide [won't solidify properly] bubbles like liquid, and tastes TERRIBLE..the smoke is harsh, hard to take in..and the state, while entheogenic, just feels 'wrong'..like an anti-dmt parallel world..of course it wasn't GCMS tested so, there may be other oxidation products in there too..

the same material extracted normally tasted fine, was solid, didn't bubble, and had pleasant effects..

..my theory is excess H20, and a perhaps traces excess basic material in the extract, led to oxidation..

Quote:
the smell of the presumed Oxide was like the taste when DMT has accidentally caught fire (oxidizing) ..and the weird effects.

..so, that's my theory, so far..
as endlessness has said, there are other oxidation compounds other than DMT-N-Oxide formed in most reactions like this..
 
nen888
#44 Posted : 2/7/2014 10:03:02 AM
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..i am bumping this thread for 2 reasons:

1) i think there is quite a big DMT-N-Oxide myth circulating the internet;
2) i would actually really like to see/hear of some confirmed solid data on it

(oh, and also, at the end of all this i discovered something interesting i didn't know about it, see next post)


now, despite constant claims of DMT-N-Oxide, and much discussion of zinc reduction, i don't see much evidence at all of it turning up in commonly extracted plants..yes a handful of plants over the years have had it detected, but it was Not detected in analysis of so-called 'jungle spice' (from MHRB), in multiple tests..
bufoman in Summary of jungle spice analysis wrote:
Quote:
SWIM has also been unable to detect N-oxide. Other claim that N-oxides give unique peaks but I bet it is variable based on many factors. Thus it is possible that some N-oxides are being detected as their parent compounds via degradation. Without a reference standard we won't know.


more extensive testing was done by endlessness in the excellent Mimosa tenuiflora (syn. hostilis)/Jungle Spice Analysis thread
who found pretty much none (perhaps a trace in one of 10 samples) and noted
Quote:
the NMT presence in nearly all samples is pretty interesting.
..which helps to explain non-solid extracts (along with other trace compounds) ..nor did he find any N-Oxide in any Acacias..

there have been dubious claims of the oxide's effects (by 69ron in particular)
and various attempts to make the oxide..

Infundubulum wrote in N-oxide analysis:
Quote:
So to recap, when people say they make n-oxide from their dmt preparations by the H2O2 they are actually getting a soup of what-ever, including N-oxide and 2meTHBC? Interesting comparing to what people have been claiming thus far with regard to "making" and bioassaying n-oxide...

however there is still some ambiguity as to the detection/creation..enldessness wrote in that thread:
Quote:
Now interestingly, when i tried to make an n-oxide with 10% hydrogen peroxide, it did seem to create the dmt n-oxide peak ...The other interesting thing is that the supposed N-Oxide product I created has several other peaks appart from dmt n-oxide and DMT.. It also has a very large quantity of 2MTHBC and several other components.. In the paper mentioned above, when analyzing the pure n-oxide, they also came up with 3 peaks instead of one..
..so, even when deliberately oxidised, it usually a mixture of by-products created..

of samples that may indeed contain a fair amount of the DMT-N-Oxide, a few nexians have attempted to make the oxide from ordinary DMT..of one attempt Phlux wrote:
Quote:
The n-oxide was sampled - somehow - perhaps the jungle ? it was solid and almost plasticky - it smelled nice before smoking it - but the taste and smell of the smoke was horrible - this is the first time swims spice tasted and smelled like plastic. the warm head effect - like behind the ears - kinda like wearing a warm cap was noticed - the dosage was very small but because of the taste swim is hesitant to try it again - the effects were just on the edge of noticable at the same dose as the spice used to make it at is rather noticable at.
in https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=5456
and elsewhere Q21Q21 noted effects were not as visual in an attempt to make the oxide (which was almost certainly, from what endlessness has found, not a complete conversion)
as it's difficult to create in pure form it may actually have very little activity
.






 
nen888
#45 Posted : 2/7/2014 10:07:47 AM
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..i theorise that DMT-N-Oxide is (considerably) less active than DMT, due to the following finding (that it is a metabolite product of DMT in humans) [2012]

Quote:
Advances in the method and a better understanding of DMT metabolism were gained through our research on ayahuasca (2-4). Studies were conducted with Dr. Jordi Riba (Drug Research Center, Hospital de Sant Pau, Autonomous of Barcelona), whose team has been the first to study ayahuasca in a clinical research setting. The analyses have shown a major metabolite of DMT, DMT-N-oxide (which retains the identifying structure of the parent substance), being excreted in the urine at levels 10-20 times greater than DMT itself after ayahuasca administration. Similarly, N-oxide levels in blood were four times greater than DMT. This is the first time this metabolite has been reported in humans following DMT administration by any route. All previous studies that attempted to measure DMT in blood and/or urine failed to measure this compound and thus may have missed significant additional evidence for the presence of DMT. Data suggest that similar results will also occur for the endogenous hallucinogens bufotenine and 5-methoxy-DMT and that measurement of their N-oxide metabolites will also greatly enhance our ability to determine the normal role and function of these compounds.

http://www.cottonwoodresearch.org/dmt-update/

..if the oxide is the compound which DMT is being metabolised as, then i would assume it is being rendered less active (as the effects diminish following metabolism)
i have heard one claim that DMT-N-Oxide has a quarter the potency of DMT

but, i bumped this thread as the data is still quite murky on this often talked about compound
 
DreaMTripper
#46 Posted : 3/10/2014 1:33:09 AM

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This is brilliant Very happy ..
Quote:

..
One recalls that when pulling MHRB using an
STB method, it was good to play the didgeridoo
over the jars before putting them in the freezer,
as this helped the formation of very intricate,
beautiful crystals. Also, with later pulls when
both white and yellow substances were coming
out, using the didge made these compounds
crystalize in distinct clumps from one another.
..but then, maybe 'jim-jam' could have
something to do with this: [from Norman]
Very interesting thread!
 
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