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The FASA Method: A Summary - DMT Fumarate and Beyond Options
 
Faust
#61 Posted : 2/3/2009 5:13:15 AM

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Pics as promised, FASA in the 20g test jar.

100g MHRB + citric acid-acetone, in the extraction pics.
Faust attached the following image(s):
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logos2012
#62 Posted : 2/5/2009 10:34:00 AM

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SWIM has a question about step 8.
Entropymancer wrote:


8 ) Let the crystals dry, wash them with acetone (it removes any traces of sodium corbonate which is totally insoluble in acetone), evaporate the acetone and enjoy the product.

Maybe this is a stupid question but if you want to get rid of the sodium carbonate wouldn't you want to wash it with something that it is highly soluble in? Not something it is insoluble in? Or is the freebase soluble in the acetone and it picks up all the freebase but leaves the sodium carbonate behind? Then you evaporate the acetone to get back the freebase?

Sorry just kind of confusing. SWIM always likes to make sure he is doing things the right way before he tries.
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geeg30
#63 Posted : 2/5/2009 12:44:14 PM

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Yes, freebase is soluble in Acetone while the carbonate isn't therefore can be filtered out and the acetone evaporated to get the freebase back.
Here you!!! Gonnaenodaethat

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logos2012
#64 Posted : 2/5/2009 7:46:48 PM

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Word thanks!
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soulfood
#65 Posted : 2/13/2009 12:26:48 AM

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SWIM has some crystals nicely formed from adding FASA to Xylene. He will siphon off in the morning and then wash with acetone.

However SWIM was expecting to see a clear divide between Xylene and acetone in the container. The container was sealed so nothing could evaporate.

Would a simple H2O wash mean I can get the Xylene usable for another pull?

Also SWIM now imagines that acetone is not re-usable in this situation. Correct?
 
amor_fati
#66 Posted : 2/13/2009 12:35:50 AM

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soulfood wrote:
SWIM has some crystals nicely formed from adding FASA to Xylene. He will siphon off in the morning and then wash with acetone.

However SWIM was expecting to see a clear divide between Xylene and acetone in the container. The container was sealed so nothing could evaporate.

Would a simple H2O wash mean I can get the Xylene usable for another pull?

Also SWIM now imagines that acetone is not re-usable in this situation. Correct?


The acetone is polar, but it's aprotic, so it doesn't behave as protic polar solvents like water and alcohols tend to. It's miscible in xylene just as it is in water, so it won't separate from either. SWIY can wash the xylene and reuse that, but the acetone can't be separated and cleaned up for reuse. If acetone were the only solvent used, it can generally be reused.
 
soulfood
#67 Posted : 2/13/2009 2:16:59 AM

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Cheers Smile

edit: SWIM washed his xylene with water but it's now cloudier than ever. This was tap water and SWIM believes it to be quite hard.

Any suggestions?
 
T
#68 Posted : 2/13/2009 7:32:01 PM
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According to the tek: 2) take the shredded/powdered bark and cover it with enough citric acid acetone...

Now that's a realy stupid question, but does someone takes this literally, so that only as much acetone is used that can cover the powder? (so once the powder settled one might only have maybe a half inch of acetone covering it)
In a way it makes sense as the acetone only needed to carry the citric acid to the powder...
It's just making sure, as someone asked me this question in the supermarket and he doesn't want to use too little acetone.
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Faust
#69 Posted : 2/13/2009 8:02:05 PM

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T wrote:
According to the tek: 2) take the shredded/powdered bark and cover it with enough citric acid acetone...

Now that's a realy stupid question, but does someone takes this literally, so that only as much acetone is used that can cover the powder? (so once the powder settled one might only have maybe a half inch of acetone covering it)
In a way it makes sense as the acetone only needed to carry the citric acid to the powder...
It's just making sure, as someone asked me this question in the supermarket and he doesn't want to use too little acetone.

SWIM says use just enough to cover the bark and save the rest of your citric-acid acetone, this will be complex and you will need to test in order to adjust your ratios. it seems you will result in plenty alkaloids either way. SWIM says just stick with the original tek and save + recycle your citric acid-acetone solution to use over and over again.

Note: More citric acid [5g+/100ml] will dissolve in the acetone than what the original tek said to use; so you may consider increasing the ratio of citric acid in your acetone solution.

Faust wrote:
Pics as promised, FASA in the 20g test jar.

100g + citric acid acetone, in the extraction pics.



FOAF has dried both extraction amounts with one half an order of magnitude higher; but not recrystallized. Sitting in dmt-fumarate form and seems to be forming into one solid piece. Would it be best to chop it before storing it in a cool dry place?

Should a cold acetone wash or an acetone siphon and decanting in accessible vessel procedure be done before storing it???
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amor_fati
#70 Posted : 2/13/2009 8:32:04 PM

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soulfood wrote:
Cheers Smile

edit: SWIM washed his xylene with water but it's now cloudier than ever. This was tap water and SWIM believes it to be quite hard.

Any suggestions?


Well, this happened to SWIM last time he used it. If SWIM remembers correctly, he just went ahead and used it to pull anyway, and it cleared up (probably washed by the basic aqueous solution).
 
soulfood
#71 Posted : 2/14/2009 12:28:13 AM

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Ah... that's comforting. This is where not knowing your chem spooks you a bit.

"WHAT'S HAPPENING!!!"

"Ehm... read a book!".

Smile
 
Faust
#72 Posted : 2/20/2009 6:36:12 PM

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Not sure if this has been posted before in the FASA thread. But here is some invaluable information by the great 69ron. It says essentially the procedure for calculating DMT-fumarate doses in grams by multiplying your dose of raw freebase product (20mg, 30mg, or 60mg) by this theoretical number: 1.3082557404564745125325996313785.

DMT = DMT Fumarate ~ Dose Level
1) 20mg = 26.16511480912949025065199262756 ~ THRESHOLD
2) 30mg = 39.24767221369423537597798894134 ~ MEDIUM
3) 50mg = 65.4127870228237256266299815689 ~ TRAVELER
4) 60mg = 78.49534442738847075195597788268 ~ MAXIMUM

69ron wrote:
According to PubChem, freebase tetrahydroharmine has a molecular weight of 216.27894 g/mol.

Here’s a link to that page: http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm....d=442118&loc=ec_rcs

According to PubChem, tetrahydroharmine hydrochloride weighs 252.73988 g/mol

Here’s that page: http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm....d=218626&loc=ec_rcs

So tetrahydroharmine hydrochloride weighs 36.46094 g/mol more than the freebase, which amounts to 1.1685829420099802597515967111731 times the weight of the freebase. So it’s nearly as potent as the freebase. Hydrochloric acid weighs 36.46 g/mol.

If you look at that page or calculate it by weight, you can see that tetrahydroharmine hydrochloride is a one to one salt. I don’t know about the citrate, I can’t find information about whether or not it’s a one to one salt.

Citric acid weighs 192.123 g/mol, so if the citrate is a one to one salt it should weight 192.123 g/mol more than the freebase coming to 408.40194 g/mol. So it would weigh 1.8883111781479972113789719886735 times more than the freebase and 1.6158982903687380084219395846829 times more than the hydrochloride.

So 200 mg of tetrahydroharmine hydrochloride should be as potent as 323 mg of tetrahydroharmine citrate (assuming it’s a one to one salt, which is probably is). That’s quite a difference in potency.


SWIM has tried both and other than tetrahydroharmine hydrochloride being stronger and tasting a little worse, the effects are identical. So even though tetrahydroharmine hydrochloride costs a little more than tetrahydroharmine citrate, you are actually getting more for your money.


Jorkest, SWIM was quite blown away by the strength of 20 mg of freebase DMT mixed with 200 mg THH HCl. They were taken together at the same time in water with 100 mg of citric acid added to make the DMT dissolve as DMT citrate. The effects peaked after about 45 minutes. The peak was way stronger than SWIM expected for 20 mg of DMT. He was not prepared for it. But it was A LOT OF FUN. SWIM was able to sleep about 2 hours after taking it and had lots of fantastic dreams.

DMT has a molecular weight of 188.269 g/mol.

Fumaric acid weighs 116.07 g/mol.

DMT fumarate weighs 492.608 g/mol being two DMT molecules to one fumaric acid molecule. So it weighs 1.3082557404564745125325996313785 times as much as freebase DMT.

So 20 mg of freebase DMT is equal to 26 mg of the DMT fumarate. So for the same effects you would mix: 26 mg of DMT fumarate with 200 mg of THH HCl (or 323 mg of THH citrate). It should work very well.

Jorkest, the trip was quite intense and it seems like the THH used was excessive. I imagine probably 100 mg of THH HCl would work. Next time SWIM will try that.

To give you an idea of the intensity, during the peak, SWIM could not sit still at all, it was like a strong acid trip. Closing the eyes lead to out of body experiences complete with other entities present. It was amazing. And all the while SWIM’s mind was clear and focused but also in a strong psychedelic state.

The DMT SWIM used was clear white and extracted from psychotria viridis so it didn’t have that rough edge mimosa is sometimes known for.

The experience was more crystal clear than that achieved using harmine or harmaline. There was absolutely no mental fog present. THH leaves your brain in top condition. That’s the main difference SWIM noticed. THH smoothes out the experience without muddying the waters at all. It was the best oral DMT experience SWIM ever had. There was no nausea, and it was more crystal clear than an acid trip.
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logos2012
#73 Posted : 2/23/2009 5:08:36 AM

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How much FASA does one add to the CASA after extracting from the bark? What ratio to how much CASA + MHRB extract you end up with should you use? 1:1 1:2, less? "One cannot put to much" does not really give an idea of how much. SWIM does not want to use too much if he doesn't have to.
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Infundibulum
#74 Posted : 2/24/2009 12:42:40 PM

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If one assumes that MHRB contains around 1% alkaloids, then one would require around 2ml of FASA in CASA per 10g of bark to convert the citrates to fumarates.

That is, if one's extracting from 100g of bark with CASA, then 20ml of FASA should suffice. But it is always better to add more because:

1) yields of up to 2% total alkaloids are not unheard of

2) more won't hurt.

So, even though 20ml would in theory suffice, 50ml of FASA for 100g of bark sounds much much better.

Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
logos2012
#75 Posted : 2/27/2009 10:19:30 AM

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When one is doing pulls with xylene from the basified bark, does it work better like other solvents to heat it first?

Should one worry about washing the xylene with sodium carbonate, ammonia or activated charcoal to get rid of any lye that might have gotten into it, or would any lye come out with the other steps of the xylene FASA process?

What are people's opinion on brightening up the spice by adding activated charcoal to the solvent? In SWIM's experience it definitely brightens the spice to white but does this mean it is getting rid of the other active alkaloids that might have been pulled such as jungle spice and DMT oxide?
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Ethnochemist
#76 Posted : 2/27/2009 4:07:33 PM

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SWIY could heat the Xylene, but swiy would probably get more impurities as a result.

Do not worry about lye, it should not end up in the final product, unless swiy accidentally sucks up some of the black liquid when siphoning off the Xylene. But even then, do some acetone washes to the fumarate salts and that will be taken care of.

Not sure about activated charcoal or any purification methods like that...however....swiy could do numerous acetone washes to the fumarates....then freebase it (the extract will be a little red/oily due to the DMT-Oxide and J. Spice. SWIY can then just wash with naphtha. This will leave behind DMT N-Oxide and J. Spice (save these), and then freeze precipitate very white dmt from the naphtha.

Or for even more dmt, use the zinc trick to turn all the N-Oxides back into dmt.

E.C.
 
logos2012
#77 Posted : 2/27/2009 6:35:34 PM

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Word, SWIM would rather not heat the xylene.

SWIM actually wants to keep the DMT N-Oxide and J. Spice in the product so he can try it out and see the difference from a naphtha extraction.

From his experience the activated charcoal turns the solvent from yellow to crystal clear and it turns the crystals from yellow to bright white. Feels cleaner to him when he smokes it too. Instead of filtering all the solvent, he waits till the charcoal falls to the bottom then decants the top and filters the last little bit.
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logos2012
#78 Posted : 3/1/2009 3:53:45 AM

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SWIM was also wondering as far as the activated charcoal, how it turns yellow DMT into white DMT, and also the solvent from yellow to clear. If it is indeed getting rid of the Jungle and DMT N-Oxide, could one not put it in with the acetone in the final wash and then it could be filtered along with any of the sodium carbonate left over? That way you wouldn't have to deal with naphtha. Perhaps naphtha works better but does anyone know much about what the charcoal takes out?

Also in the xylene method, one could just put it in the xylene, then let it drop and filter it out before adding the FASA.

SWIM knows that activated charcoal is used for removing toxins from the body. Perhaps it mght be useful in removing some of the toxins in bufotenine??? SWIM doesn't know cause he's not that chemically knowledgeable. SWIM is just throwing some ideas around for those who do know.

SWIM also knows that zeolite is even better at removing toxins than activated charcoal. Most of it that he has seen is small particles suspended in distilled water so you cant filter. The question would then be if the particles would drop back down into the water when doing a wash with it, then there would be no need to filter it out. SWIM knows thay also sell zeolite powder. This might work better. SWIM wonders if anyone knows much about zeolite or has tried using it to purify DMT.
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Faust
#79 Posted : 3/1/2009 5:03:20 AM

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logos2012 wrote:
SWIM was also wondering as far as the activated charcoal, how it turns yellow DMT into white DMT, and also the solvent from yellow to clear. If it is indeed getting rid of the Jungle and DMT N-Oxide, could one not put it in with the acetone in the final wash and then it could be filtered along with any of the sodium carbonate left over? That way you wouldn't have to deal with naphtha. Perhaps naphtha works better but does anyone know much about what the charcoal takes out?

Also in the xylene method, one could just put it in the xylene, then let it drop and filter it out before adding the FASA.

SWIM knows that activated charcoal is used for removing toxins from the body. Perhaps it mght be useful in removing some of the toxins in bufotenine??? SWIM doesn't know cause he's not that chemically knowledgeable. SWIM is just throwing some ideas around for those who do know.

SWIM also knows that zeolite is even better at removing toxins than activated charcoal. Most of it that he has seen is small particles suspended in distilled water so you cant filter. The question would then be if the particles would drop back down into the water when doing a wash with it, then there would be no need to filter it out. SWIM knows thay also sell zeolite powder. This might work better. SWIM wonders if anyone knows much about zeolite or has tried using it to purify DMT.


Activated Charcoal works by having a ridiculous amount of surface area packed into a small space. Meaning it can hold a lot of other particles within and inside of it's pockets. I think the figure is 1cm^3 of activated charcoal has as much surface area as an American football field if it were all laid out flat.
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damiana
#80 Posted : 3/3/2009 11:12:06 AM

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does anyone know if a hcl acid toluene or xylene would work instead of citric acid toluene or xylene for the fasa mix.
PEACE
 
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