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extracting pure muscimol from amanita muscaria? Options
 
lorax
#1 Posted : 11/3/2008 4:28:13 PM

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i had read a tek about this a long time ago. now a friend has found a reasonable amount of amanitas and was wondering how he would go upon extracting the muscimol in pure form. it should be as pure as possible because that way one can dose much better with it.

ever notice how your hands start itching after being in contact with the top side of an amanita cap for about 10minutes? could this be the alkaloids sinking into the skin? i have read somewhere that some people dry the slime from the top of the amanitas together with the white dots and then smoke it when its dry. it is supposed to be very powerful.
I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
Observant
#2 Posted : 11/3/2008 4:41:12 PM

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I'm also very interested in Amanitas.
There must be other Alkaloids present in some Specimen - Maybe even more Interesting ones than Muscimol.
I'm also thinking about a way of extracting them , i think some kind of extraction very important for the Use of Amanitas.

This TEK would be nice to read . Maybe you could find it again ?

I'm definetely going to do some experiments with Fly Agaric Mushrooms
Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...

All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
 
69ron
#3 Posted : 11/4/2008 6:58:33 AM

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Amanita pantherina is much better than muscaria. It's more potent and not nearly as toxic.
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lorax
#4 Posted : 11/4/2008 3:26:14 PM

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yeah.. those are nice too. haven't found many tho.. just one of em. any idea on how to isolate muscimol from them ron?
I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
 
ElfSpice
#5 Posted : 11/4/2008 3:36:12 PM

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if you can figure it out SWIY would be one rich SOB, there is no easy way to extract pure muscimol. That's why it cost 10's of thousands of dollars per gram. Being legal, there is a huge demand and only 2 people supplying it to the scientific community. There is allot of discussion about this at the Shamanic Conference each year in Iquitos Peru and on a private web forum SWIM is a member. A lot of jealousy in that small forum, because the one person who does it is very well know and teases. With just a few gram can get SWIY 70,000US
Figure it out and retire. It's nearly impossible for the home clandestine chemist to perform this work.





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lorax
#6 Posted : 11/4/2008 4:10:35 PM

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really?? that sounds very strange! well ok.. i guess it doesn't have to be pure then.

just near pure. i have read somewhere that it is not much of a problem getting a 90% muscimol product. the further cleaning is the thing which makes it expensive since very special kinds of solvents are used. (it didn't say which solvents tho)

it also didn't say how to get a 90% product. do you think one could just do a soxhlet extraction with ethanol? muscimol seems to be soluble in alcohol.

it can't be that there is no info on this extraction anywhere.. the stuff is being sold in huge amounts on various ethnoshop sites.
I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
 
burnt
#7 Posted : 11/4/2008 5:02:17 PM
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obtaining >90% purity of many compounds from plant extract requires many skills and equipment the average kitchen chemist does not have. furthermore the ability to check the purity requires instruments that cost $$. anyway its probably not worth obtaining that kind of purity for such a compound unless you want to sell it pharmaceutical grade.

btw be very very careful with amanita id as I am sure many of you know many amanitas are very very very deadly.
I do not endorse condone or engage in illegal activities. Talking about the chemistry and effects of various substances is just a fun thing I like to do.
 
Observant
#8 Posted : 11/4/2008 5:37:37 PM

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ElfSpice wrote:
Being legal, there is a huge demand and only 2 people supplying it to the scientific community. There is allot of discussion about this at the Shamanic Conference each year in Iquitos Peru and on a private web forum SWIM is a member. A lot of jealousy in that small forum, because the one person who does it is very well know and teases. With just a few gram can get SWIY 70,000US


Laughing Where can i buy the real deal for 70000 ?
Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...

All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
 
69ron
#9 Posted : 11/4/2008 10:12:01 PM

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I looked into this a long time ago. There is no easy way to isolate muscimol.

Just because there's no published method to easily extract it and isolate it, doesn't mean it’s not possible.

Unless you are planning to spend a big part of your life trying to invent a new method, forget about it. The only way to do it that is known requires column chromatography and it’s extremely time consuming and you get just a tiny bit that’s pure. It’s not worth the trouble.

Janathan Ott once tried to make a living doing it. He made quite a bit of muscimol and then he gave up on it. It’s too much work for such a small yield.

But if you have the patients and the time, maybe you'll find an easy way to do it and be the next big millionaire! I’m sure there’s a way to do it that’s easy, it just hasn’t been found yet, or else it hasn’t been shared with the public yet.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
Observant
#10 Posted : 11/4/2008 10:20:07 PM

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what are the bad impurities in fly agarics?
what is the advantage of pure muscimole?



ElfSpice wrote:
With just a few gram can get SWIY 70,000US
Figure it out and retire.



http://www.erowid.org/ar...chemistry/muscimole.html
Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...

All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
 
69ron
#11 Posted : 11/4/2008 11:06:02 PM

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You're better off with pantherina. It almost purely muscimol/ibotenic acid and doesn't have all the other toxins found in fly agarics.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
polytrip
#12 Posted : 11/5/2008 12:07:17 AM
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69ron wrote:
You're better off with pantherina. It almost purely muscimol/ibotenic acid and doesn't have all the other toxins found in fly agarics.


Although you would have to be a little more carefull. Fly agaric is almost impossible to confuse with any other mushroom, but there are other amanita's that do look like pantherina. And those are not only lethal ones, but the way in wich they are lethal is extremely painfull and it can take 72 hours before you're dead. Most unpleasant.

But anyway, i don't know about the possible dangers of using this substance. I think it's not studied enough to declare it 'safe', like LSD, while i find it's effects not that special.
 
69ron
#13 Posted : 11/5/2008 1:40:42 AM

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The look-alikes are quite easy to distinguish from it if you know anything about mushroom identification. If you don't know how to identify mushrooms you're better off not using any mushrooms you find in the wild. Sometimes the fly looks like the panther.

The fly is very toxic. It makes you nauseated, you sweat, and feel sick, plus you also get some psychoactive effects from it. With the panther, you just get psychoactive effects, it lacks the other toxins.

I wouldn't ingest the fly if you paid me $1000 to do it! What an awful experience. I consider the fly to be a toxic mushroom that you should definitely learn to avoid. It won’t kill you, but the experience is just horrible. There's nothing in the trip worth all the side effects of the fly. That’s why, even though it’s easy to identify, its not at all popular. Few people relish its side effects. The panther, on the other hand is quite nice, but not as common, and more tricky to identify. The panther is more potent with far less side effects. I don’t know why people would ever want to ingest the fly when the panther is so much better. It’s actually enjoyable. The fly...yuck…leave that for the toads and flies. It looks beautiful, but oh what an unpleasant experience it packs for you.

There are a few strains of the fly that are almost as good as the panther, but most are highly toxic and mostly make you sick. Look at all the reports of people sweating and vomiting from the fly. You don’t see that from the reports of people using the panther.

I’ve seen all sort of tricks that are supposed to get rid of the toxins in the fly, but I’ve seen a lot of people say they don’t work. Why bother, when the panther is so much less toxic and far more potent?

The panther can be used AS IS. You don’t need any special processing to make it less toxic like you do with the fly.

Here’s a quote from a user on another forum:
Quote:
I have done Amanita pantherina many times & prefer
it over muscaria. Although both species vary in
active compounds, I have found A. pantherina to
be twice as potent as A. muscaria with less nausea.


Another quote from the same site, but a different user:
Quote:
I have heard that the people who do a lot of Ibotenic Acid extractions, prefer the Panther over A. muscaria because they can produce up to 12 times the amount.....the Ibotenic Acid (a very valuable compound at about $75.00 a mg! There are 1,000 mg. in one gram) breaks down to Muscimol under certain wave lengths of sunlight. Whether it be A. muscaria or A. pantherina, if you want the Ibotenic Acid, you machine dry them and hold in the dark. For high levels of Muscimol, simply sun dry. For more information on this hallucinogenic toxin, Muscimol, go www.mushroomsfmrc.com then to "Discussion" then to Amanita Mushrooms. slp/fmrc

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69ron
#14 Posted : 11/5/2008 1:58:40 AM

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Be careful ingesting either of these mushrooms. They can be fatal.

Muscimol and ibotenic acid are themselves very toxic. The LD50 for Muscimol is 2.5 mg/kg i.p in mice. To put that into perspective, the LD50 for bufotenine is about 250 mg/kg i.p in rodents. So it’s 100 times as toxic as bufotenine. Muscimol is about 3 times as toxic as ibotenic acid and about 5-10 times stronger.

Muscimol is the way to go. It's a little safer because you use less. The oral dosage range is 10-15 mg, while ibotenic acid requires 50-100 mg.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
lorax
#15 Posted : 11/5/2008 10:40:45 AM

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i don't really intend to use this stuff.. i like to smoke a joint of it once in a while. i find the effects combined with weed quite pleasant. it does produce some muscle jitters tho. so you'd better not be holding a full cup of very hot tea whilst smoking it.

what's the vaporization point of muscimol? maybe one could vaporize it out of the rest and that way seperate it during consumption.

but really i'm just doing it for the fun of it and i got all these mushrooms lying around taking up my room. they need to be extracted to become part of my collection of rare extracts and strange, untested preperations.
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polytrip
#16 Posted : 11/5/2008 1:13:35 PM
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Indeed better not to actually use any of it.
I have tried the fly as wel as the panther and although my experiences with both of them where not unpleasant at all, they did not add anything to what experience i already had with other psychedelics. You're far, far better of with LSD or psilocybe and those substances will not causse any harm. It's reported that muscimol and ibotenic acid are neurotoxic.Confused
My experience with it is that, for a few hours you will feel energetic, euphoric and clearheaded, then you will have a bit of a mellow feeling for a few hours with mild psychedelic effects and mild LSD-like visuals, but far less colourfull.
The panther can be confused with the yellow amanita, wich is most toxic.
When it has rained a lot, under some circumstances the colours of both fly agaric as pantherine can wear off and become a little more yellowish, and sometimes a yellow amanita can get a little brownish too. With the pantherine the risk of confusion is greater if you don't know what you're doing.
This is a warning for everybody who would like to pick some psycho-active amanita's without knowing exactly how they look; a mistake wich leads to a very painfull death is easily made. Anybody just looking for another high i would advise to try something else.
 
utadaholic
#17 Posted : 11/17/2008 3:41:10 AM
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there's a source up here in canada that sells amanita muscaria extracts. It's in the form of 3-Hydroxy-5-aminomethylisoxazole. it is standardized to 90%+ muscimol and 5-10% ibotenic acid.

25mg is $100 Canadian
50mg is $180 Canadian
100mg is $350 Canadian
 
'Coatl
#18 Posted : 11/17/2008 7:51:17 AM

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There are a few strains of the fly that are almost as good as the panther, but most are highly toxic and mostly make you sick. Look at all the reports of people sweating and vomiting from the fly. You don’t see that from the reports of people using the panther.




I think your right about this, siberian seems to be good. I've heard the pather is the one that makes you really sick tho.
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69ron
#19 Posted : 11/17/2008 9:27:43 AM

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I never got sick from the Panther, but always from the Fly. When I lived up north I picked them MANY TIMES. They grew at the local park. I would dry them and put them into capsules containing about 1/8 teaspoon each. 3 capsules was quite an experience. That was 3/8 of a teaspoon of dry powder. They were very potent.

You’d probably get sick and maybe even die if you ate a whole Panther mushroom. I believe that’s an overdose. All you need is about 1/2-1 teaspoon of Panther powder for very strong effects.

By the way, there are no reports of neurotoxicity when ibotenic acid is used orally, only when directly injected into brain tissue. Also, garlic contains a compound called S-allyl-l-cysteine that prevents the neurotoxic effects of ibotenic acid.

So if you’re going to use these mushrooms, I advise having them with some garlic.

The Siberian shamans that use these mushrooms regularly seem to be all just fine. They don’t seem to be suffering from brain damage of any kind. I doubt that ibotenic acid causes anymore brain damage than drinking alcohol does.

I like the Panther mushrooms quite a bit, but I don’t live where they grow anymore and I would not trust buying them on-line. I’m quite good at mushroom identification and so I know exactly how to identify the Panther from the other few look a-likes out there. There are a few distinct features it has that no other mushroom has. It’s quite easy to identify actually, if you know what you’re doing.

Mushroom identification is simpler than most people think. It’s also a lot of fun going out in the woods and hunting for mushrooms. Some mushrooms are extremely poisonous, like the Destroying Angels which are considered one of the best tasting mushrooms and most deadly. The Destroying Angels are in the Amanita family, so make sure to learn mushroom identification before ever eating any mushrooms you find. Still Amanita pantherina and Amanita muscaria look nothing like the deadly ones. They are very easy to identify and none of the look a likes are deadly.

For the Panther, there are three look a likes: Amanita muscaria (the tan varieties), Amanita gemmata and Amanita rubescens. Amanita gemmata contains ibotenic acid and muscimol (just like the Panther and the Fly) and is not deadly. Amanita gemmata bruises pink, while the Panther does not. Amanita gemmata is edible when cooked. The Flys can sometimes look similar to the Panther. Sometimes it is tan like the panther. Not all Flys are red!

Once you read a few field guilds and get familiar with the Panther, you can spot them a mile away. None of the looks a likes are so close that I would ever mistake them for the Panther.

Get a few field guides by different authors and study these mushrooms and their look a likes before ever picking them.

The effect is interesting and unlike anything else. The Panthers I’ve tried were without side effects. They cause some very interesting mental psychedelic effects unlike anything else. The visuals are also very unique. I’ve had a few very nice experiences with them. But I never used them often. It’s sort of like psychedelic wine. You feel a little drunk from it.

I think most people have bad experiences because they overdose. With the panther less than 1 teaspoon of dry powder is enough.

Also, always dry them before use. The effects are much more psychedelic and less toxic if they are dried first.
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GreyArea
#20 Posted : 2/17/2010 12:06:17 PM
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I find that
Amanita muscaria is simply divine.
Differing largely, depending upon host tree.

I use them all year round as a my soup/casserole flavour enhancer/spiritual tonic of choice.
20+grams found under oak can provide full experience of the universe. Very loving and helpful spirit. After building does very slowly and dosing large, you'll never need to again.
Blackouts can be common.. DONT WALK on Amanita, crawl.. or u may pay the price of blinking between realities only to find your body in a pile on the ground.
Best eaten in fudge or cheesy eggs omellete.

I've experienced some nausea. I believe mostly from the massive amounts of maggots in the Amanita. I've never had fuzzy eyes for days later or any of these other claims. Though do use garlic and milk thistle with them.



 
 
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