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Hyperspace Fool
#1 Posted : 8/23/2011 3:32:44 AM

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Reading through the wealth of posts here regarding DXM, I noticed that quite a few important things about this substance were missing. Furthermore, there are a number of very useful tips about how to use this chemical properly that seem to be relatively unknown and un-talked about. This is my attempt to set the record straight.

I don't want to start an unfriendly debate here, resurrect stuff covered in older threads, or g*d forbid... violate the discouraged drug talk ammendment. https://www.dmt-nexus.me...px?g=posts&m=231481 I think we can do this without falling into any of those traps.

1st off... DXM IS NOT FOR EVERYONE.

I am not recommending its use, or encouraging anyone to try it. About 5% of the general population is lacking sufficient amounts of a specific liver enzyme to use DXM recreationally as it is. DXM is broken down by a P450 enzyme called: CYP2D6.

Furthermore, a wise man once said that 1/3rd of the people absolutely hate DXM, 1/3rd are indifferent to it, and 1/3rd absolutely love it. It may be the most polarizing drug in the psychedelic medicine pouch. While it is often labled "merely" dissociative, it can be profoundly psychedelic and entheogenic even. It is NOT an opiod (despite being a mirror image of one), and it has very little in common with any other drugs... even Ketamine, which is probably its closest relative.

There has been a lot of talk on the internet about how dirty, toxic, or dangerous DXM is. Much of this is hyperbolic and unproven. Still, it clearly does have some cognitive effects, but IMHO short-term memory is damaged more from daily marijuana usage than it is from monthly 3rd plateaus. Also remember that this chemical has been used safely in every country on the planet as an OTC w/o perscription. It is in so many different cold preparations, that probably anyone who has ever been sick has ingested it already. This, of course, doesn't mean that mega dosing the stuff won't come back to bite you in the ass...

It is my feeling that all drugs can have very different effects for different people... even for the same person at different points in time. DXM is even more variable than most, given the variety of sources, the variety of neuroreceptors it bonds to, and the vastly different effects based on mg/kg ingested.

Other than to say that anyone interested in DXM should find a way to consume it pure and never admixed with any other medicines, I won't get into where you can find it. Just remember, Acetominophen, Guaisenfen, Antihistamines, Decongestants etc. etc. BIG no-no's... nothing but pure DXM as an active ingredient. Better to have no extra inactive ingredients either. Slogging syrup is no fun, and is one of the main reasons for the perception of DXM as a cheap buzz.

So, if you have found some pure stuff, and are determined to try it... what are the magic secrets that unlock this molecule?

First off, know your dosage: 1.5mg/kg = 1st plateau *** 2.5mg/kg = 2nd plateau *** 7.5mg/kg = 3rd plateau *** & 15mg/kg = 4th plateau. Disregard all the talk about plateau sigma. IMHO it is merely the prolonged dipping in and out of 4th plateau due to redosing.

2nd & 3rd plateau are the only ones that anyone should be shooting for. 1st is just a barely noticeable version of 2nd, and 4th is just a somewhat stronger version of 3rd which is thoroughly unnecessary if you follow the protocols for 3rd plateauing. The line between 2nd and 3rd is like 2 different drugs, and the plateaus are not gradual. They switch from one to another basically to the mg. 2nd is anti-depressive, mildly euphoric, and mildly psychedelic. 3rd is fully dissociative, heavily psychedlic, and blissful in a detached sort of way... with definite entrance portals to a hyperspace that is far more "real," if somewhat fuzzier and less intense & neon than that achieved with DMT. It can certainly be far more hallucinogenic than mushrooms, cacti, or even LSD. Really.

The main reason many people miss the psychedelic glory of DXM is that they don't know its single biggest secret: DXM is hallucinogenic only inversely proportional to the amount of light that reaches your eyes.

This is extremely important. Whether going for 2nd or 3rd plateaus, you must be in COMPLETE darkness to fully appreciate this chemical. Even the tiniest bit of light creeping in from under a door can reduce visuals by 50% or more. Closing your eyes is not nearly dark enough. Thus we reach protocol #1: Prepare your tripping space beforehand by making sure it will be a light free environment.

This usually means waiting until it is dark outside, and hanging thick blankets over any windows, laying towels over any door gaps... and even covering up any light giving electronics. Even a single LED will vastly diminish your experience. Under no circumstance should you waste a trip watching TV, staring at a computer, or even going to a party. At 3rd plateau, this becomes extremely difficult anyway due to light-phobic responses. DXM is not especially social at this level (the level that true trippers will only care about). It is difficult to share a 3rd plateau with more than one other person actually.

There are a couple side effects that you will probably have to contend with at some point in your relationship with DXM, but they are easily counteracted. They are present in small degrees at 2nd, but can become pronounced at 3rd.

Nausea *** Depending on the source of your DXM, this might be more or less pronounced. Best ways around this are to dose up to 3rd plateau slowly (100mg or so at a time seperated by at least 15 min), and to drink some tea with anti-emetic properties (ginger, sage, peppermint, fennel and more) [consider this protocol #2]... or just smoke some grass. If you DO smoke grass, this should be the last time you puff until the whole thing is over, as once DXM comes on, weed has very little effect. In fact, while on DXM, tobacco will get you far higher than grass... probably because of the MAOI effect. That said, I don't recommend using ingested MAOIs to potentiate DXM. This could lead to Serotonin Syndrome in certain people, and it is thoroughly unnecessary. One of the benefits of DXM over say Ayahuasca is that you can eat whatever you want, drink a beer, and have a coffee with no adverse effects.

Diarrhea *** It is likely that you will have to let 1, 2, or more liquid hershey squirts out on your way up to 3rd plateau. Many people don't have this issue, but even if you do... it is not a big deal. It will be finished before you fully come on, and it actually makes you feel cleaner.

Heat Flashes & Itchiness *** This is a common occurrence, especially the first few times you try DXM. Fortunately, it also has a very simple solution. Bathing. You could shower, but slipping and falling in the shower is dangerous enough without robo-walking. For 3rd plateaus, the very best place to trip is in a nice warm bath. The closer to body temperature the water is, the easier your OOBEs will be. Stay in the bath until you pass the peak, and real world stuff calls out to you. Or do whatever you want... but floating in the bath in a pitch black bathroom can take you places you might never otherwise reach. Thus, we shall consider a bath to be protocol #3.

Flipping Vision & Moon Walking *** Only an issue while peaking on 3rd plateau, but if you are peaking on 3rd plateau you shouldn't be walking or have the lights on unless absolutely neccessary.

Now, why would any psychonaut want to deal with these things? Especially when we all know a number of alternatives that don't have such horrific sounding side effects. Well... they don't seem horrific while under the influence of DXM usually, and certainly not at all if you follow the protocols. Furthermore, the natural euphoria of the substance generally cancels out any discomfort you might be feeling. (not always, and not for everyone) The main reason, is that if done correctly, this can be one of the most painless routes to full OOBEs, alien encounters, and other profound (possibly life changing) experiences.

2nd plateau journeys often have none of these side effects, but also don't take you much further than fascinating patterns and a floaty feeling while in the dark. It can become somewhat like poorman's MDMA, but the only real use for 2nd plateau that I can see is as a pre-dose life vest for other hallucinogens. The anti-depressive and boundary dissolving aspects of DXM can work wonders to elliminate any negatives spirals, pre-flight jitters, or melancholic experiences from such traditionals as shrooms, mescaline, LSD, LSA, DMT or whatever. It also potentiates those substances considerably and allows you to consume far less to get often much greater effects. (note: do not take DXM on ayahuasca or any MAOI preparation of any kind)

3rd plateau, if done correctly, is so intense on its own, that mixing and matching is ill-advised until after the half-way mark of the journey. At this point, much of the DXM has converted to DXO which is a powerful psychedelic as well, but much less dissociative and cosmic. Well... it is still plenty cosmic in a pitch black room, but by this point you might be tempted to flip on the light occassionaly, and generally people move from the bath to the bedroom. Once in the bedroom, and comfy (a nice robe helps keep your sheets from getting soaked)... you might begin to miss the bliss of the peak and find the diminishing trip somewhat tame. This is the time to break out any admixtures you might want to try. Obviously, DMT (or Changa) is the best. Half your normal dose will take you 50% farther here, and the dissociation and euphoria can eliminate, or at least substantially diminish, the awe and fear you might normally have in such breakthroughs. Salvia works, but beware... the beings that Salvia invokes are not nearly as friendly as the ones that DMT calls to you. (despite their legoland silly grins) Other suitable substances include most of the usual suspects, but you will probably be not in the mood for another lengthy journey. Jim Jam Changa or Normal Changa are probably your best bets. Trying to vape pure crystals can be tricky still... but doable if you can focus. On the slow slide back to normality, light & sound Brain Machines are very very interesting, and can give visuals that rival those you might have had just after the peak. Of course, because they flash lights, anyone else in the room will find themselves coming way down due to your strobe glasses.

Nitrous *** N20 goes awfully well with DXM. This is not an endorsement of N20, and it is throwing one dissociative on top of another. That said, it and tobacco are the only two substances that can be used throughout the journey with nearly universally positive results. I don't smoke cigarrettes and find N20 relatively uninteresting on its own, but on DXM both of these substances really shine. If one is coming on to DXM and doesn't want to wait for the plunge into 3rd plateau, N20 will tip the bucket really well and stabilize the higher vibration all at once.

MUSIC *** While this can't be considered much of a secret, it IS essential. DXM spaces can seem frighteningly empty without tunes to propel them. And, while most substances are improved by music, DXM is ESPECIALLY sensetive to sound. Perhaps the adversity to light enhances the auditory faculties... Whatever the mechanism at work, make SURE that you will have your music needs covered for the duration of your journey. While you could conceivably be outside on a 2nd plateau/ shroom walk or whatever, you should certainly be indoors for any 3rd plateau experiences. Thus, it should be no problem to set up music in the bathroom and the bedroom. Best if you don't have to flip tapes or change CDs. Radio sucks, because you don't want random weirdness or commercials. iPods can be great, but if you have to mess with them, the light that they generate can blow your trip for a period of time even after they go dark again. Playlists on your computer can be okay, but remember to completely cover any LEDs or light sources of any kind. (a bit of play-dough or chewing gum works best) High ratings go to premixed MiniDiscs. They don't have any backlight, so you can skip tracks or change volume without letting any light into your space ship.

Memory Loss *** It can be difficult to remember everything that happens on a DXM trip. Impossible, perhaps, in much the same way that you can't remember all of your dreams no matter how good you are. Furthermore, DXM seems to have a heavy effect on short term memory. Some people say it is impossible to create short term memories during the peak, but this is not true. It certainly can be difficult to remember things though. Part of this is because the experiences you have do not fit into this dimensional space. This occurs with DMT as well, and is even more pronounced with strong Salvia extractions... again, not recommending Salvinorin A, B or Z for that matter. Many people attribute cognitive problems to potential brain damage. The jury is still out on this, but:

If you plan on doing DXM more than a couple times, or you are especially worried about hurting your gray matter, there are a couple secret tips that I can impart which seem to help tremendously. GABA, Piracetam, Lecithin, Phosphotidyl Serine, Celastrus Seeds, Small doses of Iboga or Voacanga, as well as a number of other Nootropics all tend to have very pronounced brain protecting abilities. GABA in particular can completely change the characteristics of the journey. Though, it can reduce the flipping and tumbling through hyperspace down to nothing, and many people enjoy that part of DXM quite a bit. You will have to research each of these things individually, and take a low to normal dosage before ingesting DXM. You can also load up on Nootropics for days or weeks prior to your journey, and you can use all of the Phosphatidyls (serine, choline, inositol etc.) to rebuild your neurochemsitry afterwards. Non-GMO Lecithin is a good source, tofu or miso will do in a pinch, but high quality supplements are the preferred sources.

Breathing exercise, chi kung, or other simple yoga techniques can deepen the experience of DXM substantially, and can mitigate negative effects substantially. This is true of all entheogenic experiences though. I highly recommend that you learn some these if you enjoy consciousness expanding. They can often bring you back to some of your deepest revelations even when done completely sober.

Well... that about wraps it up.

DXM can be one of the most effective boundary solvents available. It can dissolve every kind of boundary with ease. Starting with self conscious thought patterns, working its way up to mind/body divisions, and on up to ego death and other high level things.

To conclude this lenghty post now, I will just say that entheogenic snobbery is not overly helpful. I KNOW that many of you have had bad experiences with DXM. Even those of you who are not allergic, and have the requisite enzymes often look at DXM as a bad, low-class drug. Many of you think of Ketamine as the superior substance in this category. Personally, SWIM has never enjoyed K all that much, and felt thoroughly poisoned the last couple times he encountered it. This could have been the quality (or lack thereof) of the K... but SWIM isn't overly fond of insufflating, IM or IV anyway. Furthermore, the quality of the lessons learned and the value for SWIMs psycho-spiritual evolution were always orders of magnitude higher for him with DXM. SWIM tells me that he has successfully used DXM for nearly 20 years (avg. once a month) without noticeable adverse effects. SWIM feels that his nearly 30 year cannabis habit harmed him far more (he's been quitting on & off for years now). And having said that, SWIM doesn't feel impaired at all compared to others his age who only drank alcohol. In fact, he feels that his entheogenic experiences (of which DXM is certainly included) have given him far more than they might have taken.

All of this is just highly subjective, hypothetical Pleased, anecdotal wisdom. Take it or leave it. I take no responsibility for any frightful or fantastic experiences anyone might have should they listen to what is here. I presume the level of Nexus participants to be quite high, but this IS the internet, and there are likely to be people who come across this who shouldn't take ANY drugs whatsoever. A vast majority of people are either crazy, stupid or both... Sorry, no undue offense intended.

Be well my brethren. Do your research! Always start off with micro doses... blah blah blah.

Try to refrain from flaming.

Rolling eyes
"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 

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Hyperspace Fool
#2 Posted : 9/22/2011 9:22:50 AM

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So here it is... Back from outer space.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=25363 (new policy on discouraged substances)

The new policy above has opened the door, and I hope that Trav & the boys see this as fitting with their ideal.

In case any of you absolutely have NO IDEA about DXM, I suppose I should mention this basic info as well:

It can take as long as 90 minutes to fully come on.

It lasts for 6-8 hours and can be taken in overlapping doses... (i.e. one can take half a 3rd plateau dose (high 2nd) and then 2 hours later take another, and one will experience a second plateau come up, an hour or more of purely 2nd plateau experience followed by 4-6 hours of 3rd plateau, and dropping off into 2 hours or so of 2nd plateau.)

Coming on to a redose is usually quicker than the initial come up.


There you go. Cool
"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
PsilocybeChild
#3 Posted : 9/22/2011 11:17:42 AM

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this is great. was looking for info on dxm. thanks for sharing. Very happy
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PsilocybeChild
#4 Posted : 9/22/2011 11:55:04 AM

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One thing. Don't we want the enzymes responsible for converting DXM into DXO inhibited? Assuming we aren't already lacking in that specific enzyme. I thought people use enzyme inhibitors like grapefruit juice to potentiate the DXM experience.

Also, may I recommend looking at the mindfold if you haven't heard of it. As an alternative to putting gum over all your computers led lights, ect. It's gotta be the single most useful thing for tripping besides perhaps a pipe or music. I use mine all the time.
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Dr Psychonaut
#5 Posted : 9/22/2011 12:28:08 PM

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This should be an article on Erowid. An absolutely fantastic guide to responsible DXM use and I feel like I know a lot more about it than I previously did - you should write a book about it! I'm just curious as to the hangover effects of the substance? How do they compare to other dissos? Cheers HF
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Hyperspace Fool
#6 Posted : 9/22/2011 12:48:28 PM

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PsilocybeChild wrote:
One thing. Don't we want the enzymes responsible for converting DXM into DXO inhibited? Assuming we aren't already lacking in that specific enzyme. I thought people use enzyme inhibitors like grapefruit juice to potentiate the DXM experience.

Also, may I recommend looking at the mindfold if you haven't heard of it. As an alternative to putting gum over all your computers led lights, ect. It's gotta be the single most useful thing for tripping besides perhaps a pipe or music. I use mine all the time.


People do potentiate DXM with many things, including grapefruits and their lovely juice. I don't advise for or against this. (I don't advise people to use DXM at all.)

The DXM 3rd plateau is heavy enough as it is, generally. Most people who haven't been overdoing it and built up a tolerance don't need to find ways to make it stronger. And if your mind needs further blowing... SWIM recommends spice.

Of course, if you are looking into ways to conserve the substance or consume less to get the same effect it can be worthy. However, then you are on your own in terms of figuring out dosages and dealing with any ramifications of inhibitions you provoke.

****

Mindfolds rock, but can be somewhat more restrictive than a pitch black room. If you don't mind being blindfolded, such things are very helpful. It can allow you to trip in a dimly lit room and just peek out of your mindfold instead of groping in the dark for a penlight or lighter. DXM can get so vivid that the spaces you see have NO connection or relevance to your actual room, that you can spend many minutes feeling your way around just to find a light switch.

Something to keep in mind. Perhaps I should add this type of warning to the OP. Keep a lighter in your pocket. SWIM always has a hand pumped flashlight and a balloon in his robe pocket... heheheh.




"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
Hyperspace Fool
#7 Posted : 9/22/2011 12:59:19 PM

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Dr Psychonaut wrote:
This should be an article on Erowid. An absolutely fantastic guide to responsible DXM use and I feel like I know a lot more about it than I previously did - you should write a book about it! I'm just curious as to the hangover effects of the substance? How do they compare to other dissos? Cheers HF


Hangover seems to be different from person to person and over time. Most report a nice afterglow, but being somewhat out of sorts for a day. Ket is so short acting that it isn't in the same league. MXE has an amazing afterglow and no hangover to speak of, but it doesn't go as deep.

With Dex journeys, it is best to trip at night, and have the ability to sleep or lay around most of the next day. It is not an alcohol like hangover, and you could conceivably function well enough. But there is a distinct need for a psychic recharge, and some good Delta dreamless sleep to feel 100% after. Take your vitamins, eat some superfoods and rest up, and you feel good as new. Most people do anyway.

People without the requisite enzyme levels will trip much harder on much less and have a harder come down. Always do an allergy test (a micro amount) with new substances, and never shoot for some ridiculous heroic dose. Start small and build. Doing a 1st plateau dose and winding up in 3rd might be alarming, but shooting for a 3rd plateau and ceasing to exist for 24 hours could be brutal.

More is not better with entheogens people. Taking as little as possible to get exactly where you want to go and finding the sweetest sweet spot is the real art.

Be well Dr. P.
"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
blue lunar night
#8 Posted : 9/22/2011 5:12:15 PM

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Thanks for posting this, Hyperspace Fool - these are solid & sensible guidelines.

I'd like to offer some of my more subjective interpretations & suggestions to help people get a feel for the 'personality' of 'Sinister Dexter', as i fondly refer to him.

yes, him. it can often be silly to assign gender to an entheogen (& i personally don't confine myself to any gender-polarity paradigms), but in some instances, for example, as with Lady Salvia, it is quite valid indeed.

so dxm, especially in comparison with the usually rather feminine ketamine, tends towards a 'male' orientation - or perhaps more specifically, 'not-female'.

it is darker, colder, sharper, harder, & heavier than ketamine.

***

i often have the sense that DXM is somehow a kind of artifact of alien technology, either 'accidentally' left in our world, or purposely 'seeded'... where it promptly found a niche on the counters of almost every grocery store & pharmacy in the modern world... Shocked

this notion is partially derived from the 'foreign' relationship between DXM & the human mind/brain.
many psychedelics fit quite snugly into our mind/brains, be they tryptamines, PEA's, etc - a result of either evolution or intelligent design. LSD & the human mind/brain blend like peanut-butter & jelly...

Not so with DXM. Sometimes the key turns effortlessly in the lock, & sometimes it is like pushing a square peg into a round hole. It was not designed for human mind/brains & therefore tends to a certain inconsistency & wide variation in its effects.
One can, however, increase the chances of a smooth engagement by following Hyperspace Fool's guidelines within a ritual & magickal context.

***

i consider DXM to be a kind of daemon, in the ancient greek sense of a powerful elemental spirit.
it is morally ambiguous... it can both help and hurt you.

if you find yourself thinking, 'i can be a DXM-shaman', then it's time for a break. because you can't.

***

the final destination of Dexter's winding path is a place that i call, 'Absolute Zero' - which is quite as the name indicates. perfect stillness as the seed of all movement. perfect silence as the seed of all sound. perfect cold as the seed of all heat. and perfect darkness as the seed of all light.

***

if DXM had a patron deity... the Egyptian god Set would be a likely candidate...

***

now dissociatives in general tend to be tricky when it comes to music selection, what with so many qualitative criteria to be satisfied.

i have 2 recommendations:

Distant System - Spiral Empire (perhaps most appropriate during the 3-hr come-up phase)

and especially,
Zolod - Deja Vu Fabrique (file under 'mystical, elegant, subtle, atmospheric psytrance'Pleased

i know how people can rhapsodize about the music they enjoyed on a journey, & i usually take it with a grain of salt. but i am telling you that THERE IS SOMETHING UNCANNY about this Zolod album combined with DXM.
it is IDEAL - such that i will not take DXM without it.
i really want to hear from other DXM freaks about how it works for them, because i've not come across anything else that comes close.
furthermore, the backstory behind this album is also strangely fitting, as the artist killed himself before the mastering was complete. sometimes i wonder if he struck some kind of dark bargain in order to bring that music into the world...

***

hmmm what else ? oh yes: cannabis... Cannabis... CANNABIS Laughing yes, Dexter & Mary J, an odd couple perhaps, but o how they love each other ! i would not even consider taking DXM without plenty of fine ganja.

***

only once i tried potentiating DXM with grapefruit juice. it worked, but the experience was more 'hectic red' than 'calm blue', so i have no desire to try it again.

***

in that 'hectric red' trip, my friend got up to use the bathroom.
while struck with simultaneous vomiting & diarrhea, he had a crystal clear, detailed vision of his then-girlfriend being raped in a bathroom at a party, several years previous.
the next day he called her & described what he had seen, down the decor in the bathroom & the appearance of her attackers.
she was absolutely shocked and confirmed the truth of his vision.

***

here is a trip report i wrote for what continues to be my most significant dxm experience. it occured on the winter solstice, 2008:

Some friends and I decided that we would trip on the Winter Solstice. Being the longest night of the year, in the frigid (7 *F) central United States, of course Dextromethorphan (praise be upon its' name) was the only choice.

We approached the experience with the deepest respect and gratitude, using the winter solstice as an opportunity to commemorate and celebrate the power & beauty of darkness and the night.

Medical cannabis was smoked throughout the experience.

The players: D, L, S, and myself.

The scene: A secluded mansion on a hill in the woods, which L & D were house-sitting.

We all took about the same dose - 350 mg, spread out a little over an hour - 1 50 mg capsule taken every 10-15 minutes. We all had empty stomachs. The DXM was in the form of crystal which had been extracted from syrup.

As I weigh about 50 pounds less than everybody else, I ended up falling much deeper down the rabbit hole. I'll start with some retained snapshots and fragments of the the others' experience:

The trips commenced for all of us with an evaluation of our paths through life thus far, then allowed us to explore alternate future consequences for a variety of possible life choices. I believe this a common occurrence with ketamine as well. From there, I fully disassociated while the rest stayed mostly around their bodies. For them, the house and hillside came alive with spirits - spirits of native peoples that had lived on the land previously, spirits non-human, spirits of every type, description, and disposition swarmed the house in an ecstastic babble of communications. At the height of this entity invasion, S & D reported that the entire house around us disappeared - and suddenly we were outside, with the glittering obsidian sky above and skeletal trees creaking in the love-bite of cold clean air. S got a powerful message from the Big Chief. D careened around the house, chasing after apparitions. Even though I was in my own trip at the time, I distinctly remember feeling that there were many, many more than 3 other people in the room with me. The vibe was something like a riotous, dionysian, pagan, tender, wondrous, witchy black mass. It was quite the party.

At one point S pulled out a crystal of Moldavite, which is a strange smoky green, bizarrely textured crystal formed from the melted sand around a meteorite impact. D tried to charge it with energy and it burnt his hands - (Moldavite does not need to be charged). He then put it on my chest (I was lying down) and within seconds my heart began to beat at an alarmingly rapid pace and I quickly removed it. Very strange.

I felt that for the first time, DXM accepted me into its fold, took me under its' wing, and allowed me to soar. Previously there had been a kind of distance - it seemed to be probing me, perhaps assessing my intentions and capabilities. This time, we were one.

I don't think I have ever felt such exhilarating, ecstastic, godly emotions in my life (except for a ++++ on mushrooms). The purest, cleanest emotion oozed out of every pore like liquid mercury, enveloping me in a quicksilver embrace. I then became a beam of light, formless starstuff, an endless unknown god in forgotten depths of Night.

The visuals are also unparalleled. Incomparable pastels, iridescence, opalescence, nacreous pearlescent shimmers, & highly refined texture-languages.

Nobody had any physical complaints throughout the entire trip. I threw up a little water after I had consumed 250 mg, but immediately felt better and had no problems swallowing the remaining 100 mg.

It is now the 4th day after this trip and I still feel the vestiges of a wonderful afterglow, characterized by feelings of inner strength & peace.

A final note: This is NOT a toy. It is NOT for fun. If you are doing this for entertainment, at best you will be brushed off, at worst you will be SLAPPED. If you want good results, you need to earn it through respect, patience, and work.

IF YOU WANT TO FEEL GOOD AND HAVE FUN, MOVE ON. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE.

FOR MAGICKAL PURPOSES ONLY.



I'll let this free writing that I did the next day explain the rest :

"A slow tumble of catastrophic bliss. From velvet depths spurting white-hot miracles. The winding path. A rotating portal. A crease. A clench. A stitch. The twist and turn. The warp and weft. The lock and the key. The knot. Tangled in slippery fate. Hot amniotic froth.

The hidden way. A secret gathering. Chattering teeth, a wiggling eyeball. Witches’ Sabbath. Spinning clock hands. Cuckoo! Cuckoo!

Purity. Endless blue.

Boundless. Soaring through thick star-studded ether. Unfurled. The cup that runneth over.

Tunnels. The process. A glimpse behind. Reveal. Re-veil.

Slicing through the taut karmic umbilicus. Hot coppery taste of blood. Bone-strewn plain. Links forged of desire pain and gristle in the chain of my incarnations. Hellraiser.

A plateau. Stark. Abiotic. The plane. The point.

A frozen shard. A blade. Contraction. Release.

Finding your way back to before the beginning.

Out of light cometh darkness."

***

well i hope this was helpful. i'll add more as it comes to me Smile
 
Hyperspace Fool
#9 Posted : 9/22/2011 5:42:54 PM

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Wow. Thanks for sharing BLN.

I enjoyed that tremendously. I concur with much of your observations. It is likely that you were the only one to go 3rd plateau on that trip report. One has to be relatively light to get there with 350mg.

Though I should say that SWIM never found Cannabis of much use in a DXM trip. It seemed to not work. At least not like normal. SWIM got super high from tobacco and its harmala flash though. (a substance he does not enjoy normally) As I tried to point out in the OP, weed can kill any nausea on the way up, but it seems to have very different effects thereafter. Many people report uncomfortable feelings from smoking grass. Some get nothing from it but wasting their stash... others love it. Now that SWIM has quit smoking grass truly and in all likelihood permanently, the point is rather moot for him. But others out there will have to make up their own minds about the combo.

Last thing. I have also thought that DXM was placed here in plain sight for a reason. Though SWIM never found it daemonic as you suggest. It was always very much a holy divinity thing with him. I think we can interpret these cosmic forces the way we want and in light of our own preferences and projections. I think that powerful psychic aliens are a very common motif. Cosmic meeting rooms and intergalactic pow wows.

Perhaps Dex just opens the doors wide and whatever happens to be around you or in your subconscious is what comes through. None of the entities SWIM encounters seem like the spirit of the substance to him. DXM for him is like a mind and spirit acid (or very strong base) which can dissolve any obstacles or walls in its path... it won't stop dissolving until you are returned to total oneness once again.

Who knows...

Thanks again for your input BLN.
"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
blue lunar night
#10 Posted : 9/22/2011 6:03:59 PM

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Hyperspace Fool wrote:
DXM for him is like a mind and spirit acid (or very strong base) which can dissolve any obstacles or walls in its path... it won't stop dissolving until you are returned to total oneness once again.


i like this... especially as there seem to be some odd qualitative parallels with LSD (Acid), & so to consider it as the Base, of equal dissolutionary power but coming from the opposite direction, as it were, feels appropriate.

additionally, the 'absolute zero' space is very much a kind of 'base'-line of consciousness, so the word works on that level too Cool
 
PsilocybeChild
#11 Posted : 9/23/2011 6:33:02 AM

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Great posts. The reason I brought up enzyme manipulation is because, as you said, a lot of people either love dxm or hate it. and i was thinking perhaps with adjusting the levels of certain enzymes we can make dxm work for more people. it's something i'm going to look into more.
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Hyperspace Fool
#12 Posted : 9/23/2011 9:16:28 AM

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PsilocybeChild wrote:
Great posts. The reason I brought up enzyme manipulation is because, as you said, a lot of people either love dxm or hate it. and i was thinking perhaps with adjusting the levels of certain enzymes we can make dxm work for more people. it's something i'm going to look into more.


Let us know what you find out.

For those who really love DXM, and are experienced with the higher plateaus, potentiating is an option, but SWIM thinks it should not be done as a matter of course. Most people would not want their 3rds to turn into 4ths. Or worse.

Grapefruit juice works. And it lengthens the first part of the trip, which most Dex lovers enjoy the most... but remember that DXM is more dissociative than DXO. DXO is still very hallucinogenic, though. Plenty of people are happy to come out of the extreme dissociation and into the trippy but more identifiable DXO half of the trip.

I put here a list of known enzyme inhibitors, so that people will know NOT TO COMBINE THESE WITH DXM. They mostly inhibit related enzymes that have been shown to mess with the relevant DXM processing enzyme via some metabolic pathways.

I repeat. DO NOT COMBINE THESE THINGS WITH DXM.

This list of CYP-2D6 and CYP-3A inhibitors is from the DXM FAQ, with some annotations:

ajmalicine 2D6 strongest (164)
carbon monoxide poison 2D6 (160)
chloroquine antiparasitic 2D6 med-low (172)
chlorpheniramine (found in some cough medicines and anti-allergic preparations) antihistamine 2D med-high (151)
citalopram antidepressant 2D6 med-low (166)
clozapine antipsychotic 2D6 low (171)
desipramine tricyclic antidepressant 2D6 low (152)
diphenhydramine (Dramamine, Gravol, Benadryl) antihistamine 2D med-high (151)
doxorubicin anticancer 2D6 med-low (165)
fluoxetine (Prozac) antidepressant 2D6 med-high (152)
fluvoxamine (Luvox) antidepressant 2D6 med-high (152)
imipramine tricyclic antidepressant 2D6 med (152)
lomustine anticancer 2D6 med (165)
mepyramine antihistamine 2D6 high (151)
methadone addiction treatment 2D6 med (162
moclobemide (Manerix) MAO-A Inh. (reversible) 2D6, also 2C19, 1A2 (147)
nortryptiline (Elavil) antidepressant 2D6 med-low (155)
oxamniquine antiparasitic 2D6 med-low (172)
paroxetine (Paxil) antidepressant 2D6 high (152)
PCP recreational 2D (150)
- if this is true, then ketamine may be an inhibitor as well.
primaquine antiparasitic 2D6 med-low (172)
propranolol beta-blocker 2D6 low (156)
quinidine 2D6 (14Cool
quinine antiparasitic 2D (151)
sertraline antidepressant 2D6 med-high (167)
triprolidine antihistamine 2D med-high (151)
vinblastine anticancer 2D6 med-low (165)
vinorelbine anticancer 2D6 med-low (165)
- Drug Uses P450-3A Enzymes Potency Ref
7,8-benzoflavone 3A4 (activator) (153)
cannabidiol component of marijuana 3A med (161)
cocaine recreational 3A low (157)
clotrimazole agricultural fungicide 3A (activator) very high (154)
cyclophosphamide 3A low? (15Cool
ifosfamide 3A low? (15Cool
ketoconazole 3A (145)
pilocarpine cholinomimetic 3A low (149)
- Drug Uses P450-3A Enzymes Potency Ref
1-aminobenzotriazole Nonspecific med-high (159)
chlorophyllin geriatric Nonspecific (146)
general anaesthetics Nonspecific (163)


Mixing any of the above substances with recreational levels of DXM could conceivably result in a Serotonin Syndrome type of situation. We've discussed this on plenty of threads, but everyone who does psychedelic drugs should know about SS and avoid it. People who take SSRIs and SNRIs should really not be doing any serotoninergic drugs at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome

It should also be mentioned that these same substances and the same enzymes involved also apply to MDMA. The fact that MDMA and DXM compete for the same enzyme for processing, leads to the knowledge that they would potentiate each other, and considering the fact that both substances can cause the body to have hyperthermic reactions, should not be combined. Certainly not haphazardly anyway. Dancing, not drinking enough water, DXM & MDMA could be a life threatening situation.
"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
Entropymancer
#13 Posted : 10/15/2011 6:16:13 AM

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Just found an interesting article, and this seems like as good a place as any to put it. It's a clinical psychiatrist's take on using DXM to facilitate transpersonal experiences.

  • Addy, P. 2007. “Facilitating transpersonal experiences with dextromethorphan: potential, cautions, and caveats”. Journal of Transpersonal Psychology 39(1):1-22.


Here's the full pdf from erowid.org: http://www.erowid.org/re...texts/show/7111docid6467
 
dmtk2852
#14 Posted : 10/15/2011 7:00:34 AM

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Great thread. I have personally used this spiritual tool for many years. I think people are foolish to call it dirty, or poor man's ketamine/psychedelic trip.
You can go to some pretty interesting places on DXM, particularly third plateau. I have a rekindled interest in this substance since I tried it for the first time in about a year, last month. I only reached 2nd plateau, but I'm wanting to push 3rd next time. Just waiting for the right set and setting.

As for music Pink Floyd always worked really well for me, and oddly enough Radiohead. On DXM I can understand everything Thome Yorke says, which is normally very difficult to me. I figure out a lot of Radiohead lyrics while on DXM.
The best setting for me is on a bed, headphones music playing and darkened room. I do enjoy occasionally using grapefruit juice as a chaser since it kills the taste and definitely increases the trip. I also take a little Dramamine and maybe smoke some herb for the nausea during the come up.

My best mixture was DXM and salvia. I was pretty hard in deep 2nd to light 3rd plateau and I somehow managed to light my waterfall bong filled with I think 15x or maybe 20x salvia. I took a huge rip and had my first OBE.

All I remember was that this entity(first I had seen) made of cloud bubbles and having a hand-drawn look to him flew through my window. He kind of looked like George Washington. He then took my hand and we flew out my window and went underwater into a cloud land where everything was made of the same substance as he was. It was really like a dream. That was my deepest experience with any drug before I tried spice. It really showed me that salvia can take you to some pretty deep places as well, but especially combined with DXM.
I had never gone that far on either substance by itself, especially salvia. My salvia trips before that were laughable, like comparing a low level DMT trip to a full-on head ringing breakthrough.
 
Red Eclipse
#15 Posted : 10/15/2011 2:18:29 PM
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There's not much DXM can tell you that you don't know already, so I'm not sure how useful it is as an "entheogen".


Sure, it can be fun the first few times, but ease of avaliabilty and cheapness - there aren't many who heed the once few months 3rd plateau warning.





For me, there are negative side effects, and many of them. These don't out-weigh the positives. IMO, dextromethophan is a dirty molecule by nature, no matter how pure the form is. I have also noticed loss of cognitive functions as a side effect, first hand.

Also, redosing can be dangerous (as even William White states).




This cannot be proven, but it's my honest opinion that DXM usage will lead to your soul being stolen from you.
 
corpus callosum
#16 Posted : 10/15/2011 2:52:43 PM

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Good informative thread; thanks HF for starting it.

As Hyperspace Fool said from the outset, DXM is certainly not for everyone.Level 3 plateaus are as far as Ive felt the need to go(10mg/kg, hydrobromide salt) and undoubtedly its a powerful, powerful dissociative but I personally feel that it feels physically quite toxic.More so than IM ketamine (pharmaceutical grade) which ,IMO, also has the advantage of a much more sensible duration of action.

I think its an interesting and worthwhile experience but not one I would be inclined to do on consecutive days as the 'toxic' subjective feeling is still present the day after a level 3 experience.

I am paranoid of my brain. It thinks all the time, even when I'm asleep. My thoughts assail me. Murderous lechers they are. Thought is the assassin of thought. Like a man stabbing himself with one hand while the other hand tries to stop the blade. Like an explosion that destroys the detonator. I am paranoid of my brain. It makes me unsettled and ill at ease. Makes me chase my tail, freezes my eyes and shuts me down. Watches me. Eats my head. It destroys me.

 
Hyperspace Fool
#17 Posted : 10/15/2011 3:30:37 PM

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Entropymancer wrote:
Just found an interesting article, and this seems like as good a place as any to put it. It's a clinical psychiatrist's take on using DXM to facilitate transpersonal experiences.

  • Addy, P. 2007. “Facilitating transpersonal experiences with dextromethorphan: potential, cautions, and caveats”. Journal of Transpersonal Psychology 39(1):1-22.


Here's the full pdf from erowid.org: http://www.erowid.org/re...exts/show/7111docid6467


Fascinating stuff.

Cool that someone wants to explore the transpersonal experiences scientifically. Very nice to see that the author understands the difference between recreational and psychonautic "non-medicinal" use.

As progressive as the author is, he still seems relatively clueless. He acts as if the reports of DXM's entheogenic potential are possibly unsubstantiated (or at least leaves that open to be researched). His stance is logical considering the audience for his paper, and he surely believes at least some of the internet hype or he wouldn't bother with the paper at all. He also seems to respect the immense work done by the mythic William White, which is cool. The infamous DXM FAQ is likely the source of much of the psychonautical interest in the compound, and, if anything, this paper shows that he still might be considered the most knowledgeable person around on the subject of non-medicinal DXM usage.

I always cringe when researchers act like their ridiculous surveys and limited tests are somehow more valuable or authentic than the volumes of knowledge accumulated by people who have actually used a substance for years & years. Giving people high 3rd plateau doses medicinally, as was spoken of in the paper (as a neuroprotectant no less), is safe and laudable because it was done by people who went to school long enough to receive a degree... but any use outside of the jurisdiction of white coats is abuse?

This guy seems to get that though. He advocates using the Erowid vaults trip reports as research material even. I suppose one couldn't expect a more psychonaut favorable report than this to be published in any peer-reviewed journals. Hopefully, his detailing of the vast online forums and data about this and other trip material doesn't encourage less friendly people to take extra notice. Somehow, it seems that if certain elements were to truly understand how powerful an hallucinogen Dexter actually is, they might take steps to deal with it like they have other such materials.

Of course, things like psilocybin are not found in 1000 brand name OTC remedies. The idea that DXM will ever be made illegal is unthinkable... if ony from an economic standpoint.

It is clear, though, that the vast majority of problems and medical situations that have been reported about DXM come from people who took something that was not pure dextromethorphan. With the amount of ignorant youth that just grab anything that says cough on the front and proceed to consume ridiculous quantities... it is a wonder that the number of reported problems is so low actually. Psuedoephedrine, acetominophen, and combining Dex with SSRI's are probably responsible for nearly all of the hospital visits.

"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
Hyperspace Fool
#18 Posted : 10/15/2011 4:03:17 PM

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@ Red Eclipse & Corpus Callosum

It is difficult to say anything about the toxicity of DXM for certain. Given the vast variety of users' CYP2D6 phenotypes, the immense variety of source materials, as well as the large variety of personal biochemistry and neurochemical nutrition... saying anything about this with any kind of certainty would be impossible to substantiate.

Some people have profoundly allergic reactions due to a histamine response (as is the case with many opiates)... other people have none. An allergic response, though, is not a toxic response by any stretch. Plenty of people use DXM without the slightest side effects or hangover. Some people who have had issues and switched to a freebase vs. the hydrobromide salt have found that the irritating issues disappeared to a marked degree. It is possible that mild bromism is responsible for some people's perception of DXM. Freebasing DXM and then converting it to a fumarate might be ideal for some people.

Some people probably just shouldn't do it.

There are a substantial number of people who can do DXM with some regularity, enjoy it tremendously, have little or no side effects or hangover, and feel tremendously uplifted by the experience. Concurrently, there are plenty of people who feel toxified from eating a moderate dose of mushrooms or cactus. From a subjective experience, the ayahuasca purge feels far more like the body responding to poison. (though it is actually quite cleansing)

If people don't find DXM to be spiritually uplifting, they probably should find a substance that resonates better with them. The same can be said of DMT or any of the entheogens. There are plenty of people who feel that use of DMT could lead to one's "soul being stolen" as well. SWIM finds the extreme Salvia experience to be extremely invasive and soul raping. Others absolutely love the divinorum. Different strokes.

Entheogens of all stripes tend to give people experiences that they are not able to fully recall afterwards. Deep insights and incredible clarity often give way to foggy recollections and a vague sense of something momentous. This is not limited to the DXM experience.

The length of the DXM trip, and its ability to propel one so ridiculously far down that dissociative rabbit hole are valuable for deep exploration. Ketamine's shortness, and MXE's shallowness (for example) make those disso's unable to compete with the kind of transpersonal and cosmic work that DXM can enable. IMHO

The fact that such lengthy excursions into the dextroverse are psychically and physically draining to a degree make is so that most people have no desire to dose back to back, and even the thought of dexing again within a week or more is almost inconceivable. There are some people who become DXM junkies, but it is really rare.

SWIM finds that his DXM revelations are far and away some of his most holy and sacred experiences. 2nd only to spice... and even then, they are more psychologically expansive. DMT explodes against our psychic boundaries and can freak the poor ego out big time. Dex dissolves such boundaries on the sly, and by the time one notices it... they are simply gone. It is remarkably painless in this way.

Plenty of people tell SWIM that if they ever got even a fraction of the high that they experienced on a 3rd plateau from say LSD or mushrooms, they surely would have lost their mind. Somehow, the part of you that could freak out is already pacified. In fact, this sense of well being and limitlessness is so profound for those who love DXM that combining it with other drugs like LSD renders those other psychedelics comfy and cozy as well.

All anyone can say for sure is how things seem to them. SWIM finds that the spiritual benefits of his DXM use have had unbelievable use in his normal life. His meditations, his personal interactions, his ability to let go of attachments, his unshakable inner peace... these things harken back to things he learned on DXM. During the 90's his code name for DXM was actually BLISS. This name is still in common usage among certain circles.

Where spice transports SWIM to higher dimensional crossroads, and allows him to interact with hyperintelligent entities, "bliss" works on the boundaries and structures of this place. DMT is the most profound and aesthetically amazing thing ever... but DXM can certainly be at least as useful for many, many things.

And the combination of the two? OMG
"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
Untm
#19 Posted : 10/17/2011 9:13:59 PM

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I just wanted to drop a small line or two and say how amazingly enlightening it is to see some educated and intellectual discussion on such a profound compound. Given that it does have a horrid stigma of being in cough syrup and it's physical side effects are uncomfortable the depth and intensity of Dextromethorphan far exceeds many dissociative compounds I have sampled; the three-methoxy phencyclidines though still hold a place high up on my profound dissociative imaginary rating list.

I have used Dextromethorphan for about 4 years, at times more heavily but as of recently I haven't touched my reX crystals in months; a question has anyone noticed a degradation of potency over a period of time; if so how long? This was the compound that brought me to the profound world of cannabinoids/dissociatives/psychedelics, if not for this compound I certainly would not be the individual I am to this day.

Thank all of you for your research and time, again I cannot stress enough how pleased I am to finally see this compound getting the respect and honor it deserves.

I personally have been compiling various notes on it's chemistry, pharmacology, as well as various research reports and combinations; although I haven't touched these notes in years I think I will drag out the file tonight and finally get to work typing up and organizing the information I have to offer on this unique and very misunderstood tool for humanity.

-Untm

Tea fell into water
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Quote:
11:53:11 ‹Untm› Nexus chat and anti-gravity simulated racing is my coffee.

 
Hyperspace Fool
#20 Posted : 10/18/2011 12:12:08 AM

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Untm wrote:
I personally have been compiling various notes on it's chemistry, pharmacology, as well as various research reports and combinations; although I haven't touched these notes in years I think I will drag out the file tonight and finally get to work typing up and organizing the information I have to offer on this unique and very misunderstood tool for humanity.

-Untm


Can't wait to check out what you have put together.

(Your recomendation of 3 Meo PCP has rekindled a moderate interest SWIM had of sampling that stuff. Any further comments you have about it would be appreciated. Seeing that most people seemed to prefer MXE (MKET), SWIM never bothered to mess with it. But you never know...)
"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
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