DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 69 Joined: 24-Jun-2009 Last visit: 25-Mar-2021
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I have heard that altering consciousness is a NEED for humans. I even used that statement in arguments about the validity of the psychedelic experience. And recently this idea has been popping up more and more often to my attention. One exapmle is that the very first sentence of the Sam Harris article discussed in the "Drugs and the Meaning of Life" thread states: "Everything we do is for the purpose of altering consciousness." Also recently I found the following article 7 Species That Get High More Than We Do. I'm sure there are more examples of different species in nature altering their consciousness one way or another. But what I want to know is the following. Who was the first person to say that it is a need? Is there any scientific backing of this idea? And do all species have a need to alter their consciouness or is it just some? And if it is not all species then why do some have to alter their consciousness and some don't? These and any other questions that might come up about the need to alter consciousness, I hope we can answer here. Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. - Bokonon
To fathom Hell or soar angelic, just take a pinch of psychedelic. - Humphry Osmond in a poetic exchange with Aldous Huxley
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DMT-Nexus member
 
Posts: 1952 Joined: 17-Apr-2010 Last visit: 23-Oct-2023 Location: somewhere west of here
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Altering consciousness is vital for our mental well-being.Sleeping is the most fundamental representation of this. I am paranoid of my brain. It thinks all the time, even when I'm asleep. My thoughts assail me. Murderous lechers they are. Thought is the assassin of thought. Like a man stabbing himself with one hand while the other hand tries to stop the blade. Like an explosion that destroys the detonator. I am paranoid of my brain. It makes me unsettled and ill at ease. Makes me chase my tail, freezes my eyes and shuts me down. Watches me. Eats my head. It destroys me.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 69 Joined: 24-Jun-2009 Last visit: 25-Mar-2021
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Yes, sleeping is a form of consciousness alteration and is vital for our mental well being but it also has other functions. Just because sleep is vital for us, doesn't mean other forms of consciousness alteration are also vital. If I am missing something then please explain how consciousness alteration is vital for us aside from sleep. Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. - Bokonon
To fathom Hell or soar angelic, just take a pinch of psychedelic. - Humphry Osmond in a poetic exchange with Aldous Huxley
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1955 Joined: 24-Jul-2010 Last visit: 29-Oct-2019
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Seen from the perspective of survival value, one could argue that the more you are able to change your consciousness the more able you are to adapt to unknown situations. The broader your range of modes the more chance you have of finding one that is suitable for coming up with a solution for whatever problem you are faced with. So it makes sense that it would be built into us to seek this out to a certain degree. It is a cultural thing that places value and rankings on the different states of consciousness, placing the rational, individual-centered consciousness at the top of the list and those whose benefits are less palpable or practical at the very bottom. But culture itself is in a way a form of consciousness and forming new culture, new forms of interaction and shared values, beliefs and understandings can also be seen as a change in consciousness. Buon viso a cattivo gioco! --- The Open Hyperspace Traveler Handbook - A handbook for the safe and responsible use of entheogens. --- mushroom-grow-help ::: energy conserving caapi extraction
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1952 Joined: 17-Apr-2010 Last visit: 23-Oct-2023 Location: somewhere west of here
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MetaXIII- I think sleep, as you rightly say, does have a number of functions but IMO, its probaly the only form of altered consciousness that can be regarded as vital.Other methods, be they achieved via chemicals or meditation etc, MAY have some additional benefits but I wouldnt regard them as vital. I am paranoid of my brain. It thinks all the time, even when I'm asleep. My thoughts assail me. Murderous lechers they are. Thought is the assassin of thought. Like a man stabbing himself with one hand while the other hand tries to stop the blade. Like an explosion that destroys the detonator. I am paranoid of my brain. It makes me unsettled and ill at ease. Makes me chase my tail, freezes my eyes and shuts me down. Watches me. Eats my head. It destroys me.
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DMT-Nexus member
 
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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well..do you eat food? Foods alter our consciousness and are "drugs"..and we cant live without them..Sugar is a perfect exapmle of this. You will die without it. I actaully believe that a very healthy diet full of many different natural chemicals like maoi's found in fruits, anti-oxidants, hormones and vitamines etc, combined with some psychedelics in the diet like ayahuasca will produce a healthier brain/body than without all of that stuff. We basically rely on psychoactivity every single day. Without it we will die. Our brains are advanced bio-chemical computers and if we did not alter our states of consciousness every day in a variety of ways we would not function properly. Long live the unwoke.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1952 Joined: 17-Apr-2010 Last visit: 23-Oct-2023 Location: somewhere west of here
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'Sugar' is a generic term which covers a number of compounds of which only glucose is vital; sugars such as sucrose ie granulated white sugar are not.The brain is the major consumer of glucose in humans and the average 70kg man needs about 100g a day for correct functioning.The brain is 'obliged' to takeup glucose, and this is independent of insulin levels.Whether or not this causes a discernible alteration in consciousness in all humans is doubtful. I am paranoid of my brain. It thinks all the time, even when I'm asleep. My thoughts assail me. Murderous lechers they are. Thought is the assassin of thought. Like a man stabbing himself with one hand while the other hand tries to stop the blade. Like an explosion that destroys the detonator. I am paranoid of my brain. It makes me unsettled and ill at ease. Makes me chase my tail, freezes my eyes and shuts me down. Watches me. Eats my head. It destroys me.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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I know that for me, when I am hungry compared to after I have eaten there is a definate alteration in consciousness. I feel more centered and alive after I have eaten a meal as compared to before. That qualifies as altering my consciousness to me. Yes I was referring to glucose when I said "sugar". I also would bet that if you hooked someone up to an EEG all day long to recored brainwaves you would find notable changes at various times throughout the day. When brainwave patterns change I would concider that an alteration in consiousness no matter how subtle. Long live the unwoke.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 69 Joined: 24-Jun-2009 Last visit: 25-Mar-2021
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You see this is where I think my misconception comes from. If we take the term "consciouness alteration" to include things like sleep, food, and other things we need to stay alive for reasons other than alteration of cosciouness then any living organism has a need to alter their consciouness. I mean yes, we will die if we don't have sugar, but it's not because we didn't alter our cosciouness with it but rather for other functions that sugar serves in the body. Or am I wrong? So I guess what I'm asking is, is there a substance whose main or only function is the alteration of consiousness that is vital to us? If not, is consciouness alteration really vital for human beings as a species? Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. - Bokonon
To fathom Hell or soar angelic, just take a pinch of psychedelic. - Humphry Osmond in a poetic exchange with Aldous Huxley
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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"I mean yes, we will die if we don't have sugar, but it's not because we didn't alter our cosciouness with it but rather for other functions that sugar serves in the body" I just dont know how relevant it is to seperate it out like that..Food effects the mind just as much as anything else..and things like psychedelics or other psychoactive substances effect more than just our minds..the line is not as fine as you are drawing it. Long live the unwoke.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1952 Joined: 17-Apr-2010 Last visit: 23-Oct-2023 Location: somewhere west of here
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^^Very good point!We need to define a bit more clearly what we mean by altering consciousness, don't we?  If your question relates to 'altering consciousness' as per seeking an altered state of mind beyond the requirements for normal balanced physiological function, then I think the answer would be no.There may be something to be gained by it, but I dont believe its a mandatory requirement. I am paranoid of my brain. It thinks all the time, even when I'm asleep. My thoughts assail me. Murderous lechers they are. Thought is the assassin of thought. Like a man stabbing himself with one hand while the other hand tries to stop the blade. Like an explosion that destroys the detonator. I am paranoid of my brain. It makes me unsettled and ill at ease. Makes me chase my tail, freezes my eyes and shuts me down. Watches me. Eats my head. It destroys me.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 69 Joined: 24-Jun-2009 Last visit: 25-Mar-2021
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I think you are right. It's just every time I read that humans need to alter their consciouness I somehow thought there were good scientific reasons for the necessity of the psychedelic experience. But taken in the context that whatever we do changes our consciouness therefore we have a need to alter it, it just doesn't sound as intriguing, I guess. Instead of saying we have a need to alter consciouness maybe it's better to say that cosciouness alteration is the way of life so it would be better to do it consciously so we can direct those changes to suit our current situation rather than blindly be forced into states of mind that might not be helpfull. Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. - Bokonon
To fathom Hell or soar angelic, just take a pinch of psychedelic. - Humphry Osmond in a poetic exchange with Aldous Huxley
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1952 Joined: 17-Apr-2010 Last visit: 23-Oct-2023 Location: somewhere west of here
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^^That hits the nail right on its head!!! I am paranoid of my brain. It thinks all the time, even when I'm asleep. My thoughts assail me. Murderous lechers they are. Thought is the assassin of thought. Like a man stabbing himself with one hand while the other hand tries to stop the blade. Like an explosion that destroys the detonator. I am paranoid of my brain. It makes me unsettled and ill at ease. Makes me chase my tail, freezes my eyes and shuts me down. Watches me. Eats my head. It destroys me.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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yes, seeking altered states and the random but essential occurance of them are 2 different things. Another good example of a vital need for altered states would be the occurance of a fever when you are sick. This is the bodies own way of fighting off viruses etc, and delerium/visions or dreamy states definatily occur at times durring a fever. Another example is flight or fight responces..sometimes altered states can definatily save your ass. I guess you can srgue that sex elicits an alteration in consciousness that is vital at least in as far as it is essential for the human race to keep on going..unless we stop having sex and start cloning everyone. Long live the unwoke.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 498 Joined: 21-Oct-2009 Last visit: 31-Mar-2023
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i think by having a variety of experiences of different states of consciousness, drug induced or not, it gives us contrast to see who is the one that is aware of having the multiple consciousnesses, the undefined "I" that sits in the back and watches the different states. its hard to see with only one state, but by turning everything inside and out and losing our minds and coming back, etc, etc, it can reveal the simplicity and beauty of life and pull the veil of illusion aside. However, just as easily, one can use the drugs to escape from having to be content and open in the here and now.
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Posts: 981 Joined: 24-Dec-2009 Last visit: 13-Oct-2022
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There's that mysterious psychoactive lichen teasing us again.
“Right here and now, one quanta away, there is raging a universe of active intelligence that is transhuman, hyperdimensional, and extremely alien... What is driving religious feeling today is a wish for contact with this other universe.”
― Terence McKenna
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DMT-Nexus member
 
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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The psychiatrist Ronald K. Siegel wrote a book on this topic in the late '80s, called Intoxication: the universal drive for mind-altering substances. I haven't read the book so I'm not sure exactly how he frames his thesis... might be worth reading if you're interested in the topic.
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Not an angry scientist but a mad one.
Posts: 109 Joined: 17-Mar-2011 Last visit: 08-Feb-2024 Location: I'm there man! I'm there.
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I think in order to understand why we have a need to alter our consiousness we must first acknowledge our role in life as explorers of conciousness... Is that not what we are? Aren't we called phyconaughts? I belive that this is a sacred thing that we do. To me the grand metaphor is that Visnu is dreaming all reality in order to experience reality (himself). All experience, what-so-ever, ultimatly serves to multiply the combinations of experience that consiousness can have. IT is divided for the sake of unity. In this world there are adults and there are children. In fact the world is filled with children; they are angry and hurt, frightened and abused, lazy and ignorant, stubborn and hateful. The world hates an adult and they would rather cause their peers to fail at any venture of self improvement before having to step up and improve their selves so as to maintain pecking order and evidence of the lowley opinion they have of each other. The best of them enslave the others so that they all consume and destroy all there lives in order to satisfy their immense greed claiming that they are providing a future for their legacy and never question the possibility of doing better in order to leave a real future for the children they will leave behind on this, our Earth. They pretend that it is impossible and when cornered they admit their apathy saying that they won't be around to suffer the out come. They hate the adults for exposing their immense weekness. The total failure that they call success. Mean while the adults strive to minimize their own impact and perpetually work to undo the damage already done. The adults who already know; they are the children of tomorrow.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 189 Joined: 29-Jul-2011 Last visit: 09-Apr-2019 Location: United States
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Entropymancer wrote:The psychiatrist Ronald K. Siegel wrote a book on this topic in the late '80s, called Intoxication: the universal drive for mind-altering substances. I haven't read the book so I'm not sure exactly how he frames his thesis... might be worth reading if you're interested in the topic. I was going to recommend this book actually. I read about half of it before I lost it. Its an interesting read and the bit I read was about his studies in South America, where people have been using chewing Coca leaves for their psychedelic effects for many millenia. The way I look at it, once a being attains a certain level of conciousness they feel a need to alter it, explore the depths of the world beyond standard senses. This is evident in certain animals as well such as primates and elephants. Siegel goes as far as to call it the fifth drive in his book(the others being shelter, food, water, and sex). After we attain those basic needs, our next need is to alter conciousness.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 22 Joined: 19-Feb-2011 Last visit: 20-May-2012 Location: Frankfurterville Station
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Does our body not alter it's consciousness automatically anyhow ? Mental and physical reactions to stress or excitement for example, pumping endorphins into our brain, etc.
I'm sure we could keep a person in a coma physically alive and in the same relative state of consciousness or unconsciousness but for living breathing walking people NOT altering consciousness via neurotransmitters is impossible, no?
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