fractal enhancement wrote

..frankly i don't believe that proper medical drug reaction tests have been done with P. harmala..most such studies usually show a percentage of people to have adverse reactions/side effects to a drug not experienced by the majority..

..also, i have been warned by a P. harmala supplier about pesticide toxicity in 'industrial' or dye grade syrian rue..some material from Iran i once tested had something toxic going on that wasn't ordinary...

As for your physical condition, I hope you will get well soon one way or the other. But regarding the quote above, if you plan to continue with these experiments we're all into, my advice is just to get used to that one.

Peace,


PotB

yes he said he felt that way the next morning..not days or weeks later. the guy ate 10g of seeds which is a giant dose that could very easily last into the morning. Honestly that report in my opinion just sounds like a harmala trip. Anyone who has taken higher doses has been there.

If seeds have been adulterated with something that is a whole other story and has nothing to do with harmala seeds themselves. As to you not believing proper medical tests being done, you are entitled to that opinion but that does not in any way point to the seeds having toxic after effects.

"most such studies usually show a percentage of people to have adverse reactions/side effects to a drug not experienced by the majority.."

Okay but I mean what do you expect anyone here on the internet to do about that? If the magority of people dont experience side effects, and there are no scientific studies that support the idea of side effects(and there are studies out there on rue) then we can only conclude that the most likely cause is to be found somewhere else. Especially when all the symptoms someone is giving us are in line with panic attacks.

flyby, You started this thread with the following words:

How long does it take for the after effects to wear off? its been about a week now since I took 2 grams and had a pretty bad freakout due to tremendous anxiety, things have a tendency to be surrealish, and sometimes things will look grainy. Has anyone has this problem? How long does it take to wear off?

I think many on this forum have had difficult psychedelic experiences. These substances open up new ways of thinking and perceiving the world. When anyone chooses to embark on this type of journey, the end result is never certain. This aspect of psychedelics is both a blessing and a curse.

Some use the word "integration" to describe the process of relating what was felt during the experience with what is known in everyday life. Psychedelic experiences can be extremely difficult and the resulting integration process difficult as well. Many on this forum have gone through journeys involving death and dying. Many have experienced thoughts of being poisoned while in a psychedelic state. These types of thoughts are also with us in everyday life, but within a psychedelic state, the thoughts can be greatly amplified. You might have read accounts of people who lose their ego and sense of self while in a psychedelic state. It cannot be overstated how powerful these experiences can be. Since much of the experience is created from within, there is no such thing as hiding from where your thoughts choose to bring you. These substances can be extremely subtle and even sneaky. It can be very hard to know anything for sure when your reality has been transformed.

I looked through your posts in this thread but didn't notice any mention of past psychedelic experiences. If this rue event is one of your first encounters with psychedelics, you would be missing a perspective that only comes with experience. The psychedelic state contains a very wide range of thoughts, sights, smells, perspectives and emotions. The same substance taken by the same person at two different times can produce widely different results and no one has the ability to fully control what unfolds. If fear sets in, it can amplify as well. The best thing to do at that point is to embrace the experience and let it take you where it will. If you try to fight it, things usually get worse and panic is common. Instinct then tells you to fight harder and that feedback loop causes panic to amplify. The converse can occur as well where positive feelings amplify. The range and intensity of feelings has been summarized:

To sink in hell or soar angelic
You'll need a pinch of psychedelic.
Humphry Osmond

I say all this just to let you know that this type of thing has happened to everybody on this forum at one time or another. Go ahead an get your material analyzed, but it's possible that you just stumbled into a psychedelic state you were not prepared to integrate. If this is the case, the after effects will taper. You will be fine.

It doesn't sound like you were poisoned. It sounds like you tried to fight a psychedelic state. If so, you likely are experiencing a bit of PTSD right now. You described extreme anxiety during the peak of the experience. Those feelings can be amplified many fold due to the substance. You don't get over that instantly and if that's what happened, time will resolve everything. It's happened to us all.

Do what you need to do regarding substance testing but please know that you are going to be OK.

Be good to yourself. You had a rough ride.
cker

yes yes yesssssss

Let me clarify that when I state surreal, I am not refering to different perspectives, I am indeed infact refering to an altered state. The surrealism has died off quite a bit but is still there slightly, I am still haveing panic attacks and started taking a supplement to help cope with this, which has helped a little, I am still fatigued, and get bouts of dizziness, and an overall tenseness and anxiety. NOT from fear of the experience, this is my BODY doing this, my mind is generally clear an calm except for moments where the anxiety and dizziness gets really bad, then I start to have fearful thoughts and ideas, which I try my best to quell. Its been about 3.5 weeks now since, and i am still having problems, I am trying to think of anything and everything that could possibly be causing all this but so far im a little short on ideas.

i understand now , i totally do , i have to get some syrian rue , this is obviously a new way to explore that i have not walked yet
yes yes yes

i plan on doin some aya as i am only familar with smoked spice , that too only a few times

obviously flyby you realize what is happening to you is a blessing for some people , like me

and you must know the oppertunity you're at now ?? yes this is a oppertunity for you to make life surreal and magical as it should be , or make it totally ordinary like peanuts , totally frustratingly real , yes peanuts that is the word , if your life is not magical then its peanuts obviously , choose what you wish , its your life ?? if you like peanuts go for it , there is nothing wrong with peanuts , peanuts are healthy , they have a lot of protiens and they are used in many foods aswell , peanut butter tastes great , yummy

i don't wish to be rude brother but all psychadelics do this , they make life surreal or lets say the show us how life really is , that is why many of us choose psychadelics , so if this is not what you want , its time you walk a different path , but remember the path of psychadelics is always beautiful , always surreal and always magical , and yes interestingly the path of psychadelics is extremly logical , coherent , analytical and creative aswell , i would say it is the path to evolution and the path to the future

fractal enhancement wrote

..hey fractal, i not deliberately argumentative..just know two or three people to have been unusually sensitive to syrian rue (doesn't agree with them),
and feel like the 'surreal effects lingering' description a bit different to usuall panic attack/anxiety..

..respect your POV and differences (i think it's interesting, fractal, that you only like dmt with harmalas, whereas i prefer it without..isn't diversity great!)..

finally, best wishes flyby with finding your equilibrium...

still having lot of the same symptoms tho less surrealism. I'm stoll having dizziness, imbalance, extreme fatigue, hard to communicate, mental foggyness, noticed to that every so often I would say my words funny, almost like a slur but not that extreme.

I am sure this is more diet / exercise related than anything else. Also stress from the work environment can have those kinds of factors on a human.

yesterday i had 2 gm of syrian rue , i made a tea from crushed seeds , and drank it

oh my God the taste is so bitter , tastes like medicine

within 30 mins i could feels sedation and nausea , but i smoke enough weed to keep the nausea at bay , as this was happenin all i could think about was this thread , well anyways the rue lasted about 3 hours from the time i took it , peaking in the second hour , all i felt was sedation , a little nausea and a little empowerment to my imagination , ya weed was makin me sleepier

flyby had me scared , i was seriously thinkin something scary could happen but i was quite sober only a little sedated after 3 hours , and waking up today was just like another day , a little more pleasant maybe , but i really cannot understand what flyby is talkin about maybe those seeds flyby got must be the most potent rue ever discovered on the planet

overall i am happy rue did not cause me anything like flyby has reported , now next week i prepare for my first time with ayahuasca , which was supposed to be today however something came up and i have to be at work for this whole week atleat till friday afternoon ........hmm

maybe its not from syrian rue, but you are definitely wrong

I think he's definately NOT wrong. Everyone's different, so reactions are many.

lol, the general population when faced with a health issue of another will generally give a response/solution of "drink more water, get more sleep, eat healthier, get more exercise, and if that doesnt work keep drinking more water" what do these really fix? Dehydration... sleep deprivation... Lol. Mainly these answers arise cause most people dont know what they are talking about, maybe they are trying to help but are they actually helping? Are they actually trying? I dont know.

"my car broke down" "just put more gas in it"

get the picture?

@flyby, if the doctors are telling you that it's definitely not anxiety attacks, then you have to be telling them something that you're not telling us.

Similar to what other people have told you, what you describe sounds exactly like what happened to me when I was having severe anxiety issues.

I know it's hard to believe the mind could have so much power, but just look at Conversion disorder to see what else it can do.

Just out of curiosity.. Have you even tried to change your diet to include more raw veggies and whole foods? Have you tried exercising and getting out more? Have you tried cutting out the junk food and sodas?

The old cliche "You are what you eat" hasn't been around for hundreds of years for nothing.

If you feel like crap, it's probably because you put a lot of crap into your body.

I feel that the advice that people have given you is a lot more in-depth than "my car broke down so put some gas in it".

If your car breaks down, it's most likely due to improper maintenance of the vehicle. How have you been maintaining your vehicle?

I get the picture. I use harmalas often. They are good for you. I think it is you who does not get the picture. We can not figure out what is wrong with you. If you have a problem with the way you are feeling, you need to seriously meditate on that and figure it out or see a professional. A BETTER professional. Blaming all of these effects on rue is just silly. There are humans who have consumed hundreds of grams of syrian rue or more and have been completely fine.


With that said, I digress, because we are running in circles.

maybe you broke yourself seriously though it does sound like a neurological condition possibly brought on by the syrian rue. All you can do is rest yourself and try to think positively, even though this may be hard to do. You are asking the nexus to fix a problem that your doctor doesnt seem to be able to fix. I dont think there is a magic answer even if you want one.

Have you had any prior experience with psychedelics before?

i also have had anxiety attacks before and some can be really scary , for me regular overdose of coffee is a regular thing and it does lead to anxiety attacks ,

fly by please make sure you're not overdosing on caffiene , this can cause anxiety attacks of magnitude you don't have any idea about , i once drank 3 cups of really strong coffee in an hour or so and believe me by the second hour my right leg was shaking , i was not able to stand properly and i thought .... whats wrong , what is happenin , what did i do , then i realized it was the coffee , i had to relax for a few hours after that , i switched my phones off so i don't have to talk to anyone for i remember i was stammering ,

watch what you eat carefully , after that day i remember to have gaps of a few hours before drinking another cup of coffee , also remeber aerated bevarages ( such as pepsi and cola ) also contain caffiene , also avoid tea or any other caffinated beverages , you anxiety attacks might subside after this if they are related , you could be suffering from a different ailment aswell , i am no doctor but i post this anxiety attack experience so that maybe it helps you incase its caffiene , people take coffee lightly but try overdosing on that like 3-5 times regular and its some anxiety provking trip