maybe the rue just brought some deeper psychological issue to the surface. Have you thought about talking to a good psychotherapist about what possible psychological issues you might have that are causing you to feel this way? I really dont see any way that ingesting harmalas weeks ago can be doing any of this to you, unless you had some issues already that you were not dealing with that have now been brought into the foreground.

definitely a physical thing

I'm just going to chime in with the others here and give you my 0.02c. In my environment i have many, many people who have had their issues with mental disorders, supressed emotions, depressions et al and let me tell you: many of these things show themselves in very physical, sometimes even medically measurable irregularities such as those wich you mentioned. Regarding the fact that you check out fine according to your physician, why do you seem to be so absolutely reluctant to even consider this path of thought?

If you aren't willing/capable of riding this out by yourself, what would it harm to talk to a professional? I merely state this because the symptoms you display remind me of a few people in my circle who have suffered from severe depressions, some still do and they report almost exactly the same physical ailments as you do.

I don't mean to sound condescending or like i'm refuting your claims, but in the hypothetical case that this is what it seems to me, it's best to take the bull by the horns. Psychedelics have a tendency to break open pandora's box if you indulge long enough, and it's always good to have knowledgable allies when that happens.


Be safe and godspeed,

PotB

can this really happen with 2g of rue , is it even possible ??
i have not done rue or aya till now however i am planning to
isn't rue a maoi , not even a psychadelic

rue contains both harmine and harmaline..both of them are psychedelics and can produce visions and insights by themselves.

Ive experience depression before, this is far worse, I can barely wake up in the morning, I feel completely wiped out all day, as if I had ran a 27 mile marathon on no sleep, mental function is no where where it used to me, i am a very sharp and quick individual with alot of energy, I am almost considering sending in the syrian for chemical testing. I have seen a professional, a few, they confirmed that i am definitely suffering from something physiological, they just dont know what. This all started the night that i took the syrian rue. The surrealism isnt as bad anymore, but now I just feel completely drained and have really bad anxiety, especially before i go to bed, I can absolutely gaurantee that this is not mental. I almost wonder if maybe there is something long lasting in syrian rue that is not out of my system yet, thats the only thing that I can think of and that it is putting my nervous system in such a state of overdrive that it completely drains me of everything that I have.

I also would like to mention the symptoms of neurotoxicity which i have just read up on. Alot of the symptoms that I have.

Symptoms of neurotoxicity include memory and concentration problems; confusion; multiple sclerosis or MS-type symptoms; impaired control of the limbs, bladder, or bowels; headaches or migraines; sleep disorders, including sleep apnea; eye problems that are neurological in origin; balance and hearing problems; muscle weakness; anxiety or panic attacks; depression; and other psychiatric or neurological symptoms. (5)

Im not saying this is the result, but it is a possiblity. I would really like to talk to someone who has taken alot larger doses of this stuff and had the same reaction to hear their outcome, is all i can find is there there is a rekickin the next day after eating, which happened to me, and a lingering surrealism, which also happened to me.

what neurotoxicity? There is absolutily NO eveidence at all anywhere in any literature of neurotoxicty from 2 grams of harmala seeds. The only supporting evidence there is out there reguarding neurotoxicity are studies done with *very* large doses of harmaline in rats, not humans. We are talking doses that are like 20-30 times what you took if not more..and that is where "neurotoxicty" starts..and that is only in rats. Harmala seeds do not contain only harmaline, they contain harmine and pinoline as well and other alkaloids..so that lowers the dose of harmaline even more concidering other alkaloids are making up the % you are getting.

Seriousily..I understand you are having some issues but they do not sound like they have anything to do with the consumption of harmalas at all. Why does noone else have this sort of reaction? Harmalas, and rue have been shown to be effective against ailments like parasitic disease etc..and especially at doses like 2 grams there is just absolutily NO evidence at all to support any sort of negative aftereffects..other than the possability of a background psychological condition being brought to the surface.

Again..your worries about neurotoxicty have NO BASIS IN REALITY! There is no way in hell you got anywhere close to the ammount where neurotoxicity can even begin to manifest. Do not worry about that. All you are doing is feeding irrational fears.

Psychedelics can make you more sensitive to your surroundings, and to your own senses themselves. I can imagine you feeling things more deeply now and maybe being more aware of certain physical processes etc that go in in the body and maybe that awareness is not something you are not used to. Maybe that is making oyu uncomfortable or uneasy etc becasue it is not what you are used to. These things honestly seem far more possible than any sort of neurotoxic effects from taking harmalas.

If you still are worried about long term negative effects from harmalas themselves..look into the huasca study. All the found was positive long term benifits, both physical and psychological. The human brain seems to be HEALTHIER from the consumption of harmalas and not the other way around.

I have personally taken harmalas every single day for like 6 months now with large doses at least weekly and I have not experienced any of these negative symptoms.

In all honesty, if the symptoms you describe after the aforementioned quote strike you as much worse than when you had your depression, I'm going to go out on limb and state that what you experienced as a "depression" isn't exactly a full blown depression. Feeling extremely down (although horrible in itself) is not the same as having a full blown depression. People who are seriously clinically depressed sometimes sleep 18 hours a day, have impaired mental faculties and various other ailments much like those described by you. Bear in mind I'm not saying you're clinically depressed, I just feel that one shouldn't throw that word around too easily.

Also, selfdiagnosing through googling symptoms (I'm guessing) is the ideal way of awakening the inner hypochondriac. Don't do that to yourself. You can have all the reference works in the world but if you don't have the knowledge to apply that information it's a pretty useless endevour trying to figure out what's wrong with you.

If there was anything wrong chemically with the rue (pesticides or what not) it would have shown up in your blood work I presume.

And once again: if your health professionals can't find anything wrong with your physique but you still suffer in a physical sense, my money's on the psyche.

Read good literature, learn new things, try to see beauty everywhere, search with path is yours and don't focus too much on the thoughts your having now. Then I think you will slowly climb out of this dark night of the soul. (pretty generic advice, I know but it's what I cling onto when I feel myself slipping of in negativity)

Or go ahead and send your batch out for testing if that is what you need to put your mind at ease.

I'll conclude my rambling here.


PotB

Lol, I dont think you guys are reading what I have written accurately, as I have said, the hospital even mentioned that there is definitely something physiologically wrong with me, i am NOT imagining these symptoms. Hypochondriacism and depression do NOT cause BPs of 160 or hight or heart rates of 96bpm, fi you think that they do then you should probably read up on the conditions. The conclusions that you guys are coming to is simply the the usual of the norm when someone is sick, "oh you should probably get some rest", or "you probably need to drink more water". Things arent that simple. Funny to that you guys are finding this reaction so impossible, there are multiple reports of this kind of reaction from this supplement, one even on erowid.

Im also not saying that it IS nerve damage, but the symptoms match up pretty well, the symptoms that match up the best are MAOI overdose, and the onlything that I can think that could be going on here is that there is a long lasting maoi in syrian.

dry mouth, dizziness, feelings of lightheadedness, an excessive drop in blood pressure when standing, constipation, and weakness.

Note that dry mouth is listed which I had for about 3 days straight VERY badly, pretty sure depression and hypocondriacism doesnt cause that lol. So this should that the maois are most probably active for atleast 3 days.

Symptoms of MAOI overdose include severe anxiety, confusion, seizures or convulsions, severe drowsiness or dizziness, cold clammy skin, rapid and irregular pulse, fever, hallucinations, severe headache, coma, tremors/spasms, excessively high or low blood pressure, muscle stiffness, difficulty breathing, extreme sleep difficulties, or abnormal irritability.

Im not saying that this IS the case, I DONT know, but I am trying to see what best fits to try and figure out what is going on here.

Could you share these similar reports? I'm sorry, but I have a very hard time believing 2g of rue caused any long-lasting and sever symptoms.

A heart-rate of 96-bpm is normal; a normal resting heart rate ranges from 60 to 100 beats a minute.

While your BP is somewhat elevated, I don't think that it makes any sense to attribute it to the minuscule amount of rue you took, especially seeing as it was 2+ weeks ago. I'm not a doctor, but rue is an unlikely culprit, imo. A rue OD is unlikely, RIMA's don't hang around the same way MAOIs do, afaik, and you simply didn't take anything even close to a large enough dose to OD if you have normal physiology.

Well then I should probably submit it for chemical analysis, the bp and heart rate was for 3 days straight and constant, my bp and heart rate is back down to normal now, 120 and 70ish. let me find the reactions.

here is one for now
http://www.google.com/ur...2=7FX3b4GjUiwBbJe5YC4YMg
I will have to find the others cause I am at the library and the others are blocked

It's definately concerning that your BP and heart rate have been gone higher, but is it not impossible that it could have psychological cause?
Therefore, do you think that the rue that you took still has effects on your body, and is it the only cause? As because I hear the first time that something like that could effect a person for so long.
I'm just wondering... Psychological changes for weeks after taking a drug are possible, but this is the first time I hear this happening physically, or could it be that they are just connected?
I think it's more likely that you can get back to normal without any doctors, that is by yourself.

Could it be that you are causing these symptoms to yourself, such as people who have panick attacks, do? It's not uncommon and has far severe effects than you are having.

I believe ALL the symptomps will stop after you start ignoring them for some time. Or just don't be freaked out by them as they really are not serious and are not something one could not create for him/herself through thinking/attitude.

This guy claims that he took 5 times the amount of rue you did (and with a HBWR seed) and makes zero mention of sustained effects...just unpleasant acute effects...what comparison are you drawing to this?

stress and anxiety can cause high blood pressure..so can your diet..alot of things can cause that. Noone is misunderstanding what you are saying..what people are saying is that worrying about the rue causing it is silly. Stress can axiety (which you seem to have over this whole sitaution) can cause changes in blood pressure..Noone is saying that you are not having these symptoms..all people are saying is that it seems to be a waste of time to focus on 2 grams of rue you took weeks ago as the culprit. I am sorry if that is not what you want to hear.

"Note that dry mouth is listed which I had for about 3 days straight VERY badly, pretty sure depression and hypocondriacism doesnt cause that lol. So this should that the maois are most probably active for atleast 3 days."

Uhh..what? Where did you get the idea dry mouth is a symptom of harmala ingestion? I have never had dry mouth from harmalas. You are making extremely unsupported and somewhat irrational connections it seems..trying to find a way to blame it on harmalas..have you even concidered that it actaully might be something else?

When there is NO evidence to support what you are suggesting at all..and noone else seems to be experiencing these things, especially concidering almost everyone here takes harmalas I am sure..does it not seem rational to assume that what are suggesting is sort of like grasping at something in the dark that does not exist?

Certain substances have lasting after effects that are negative, like alcohol for example..there are many..but you will generally find a concensus among people who use those substances that these effects exist. You can read scientific studies and user reports and verify them. I just dont see any of this verified anywhere in relation of harmalas, especially at low doses.

I think you are having panic attacks personally. Google it and do some research. What you describe is not uncommon at all amongst people who have panic attacks.

I was actually about to suggest that it could be anxiety disorder or panic disorder, mostly based on the side effects described. Of course we're not doctors and its best to wait until you get a proper diagnosis, like others have suggested consider seeing a psychiatrist.

"The next day, I started to feel funny again, maybe because of what I ate. I decided to sleep it off instead of dealing with it. At school a few days later I started to flashback again, but luckily I got it to stop. Now, I think I'm actually still seeing tracers, I thought it was like normal at first, but it's not. They don't interfere with my daily life though, so that's a plus."

"So, my trip lasted about 6 hours, with afterimages for another 6, and tracers that will probably last a lifetime."

Harmala = MAOI

Heres another one

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=84595

Note at the end he states "everything still seems surreal"