DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 686 Joined: 29-Jul-2008 Last visit: 19-Sep-2013 Location: Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy
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i just thought i'd clear this up once and for all: MHRB contains the following: this is all translated from german.. it might have a slightly different name in english. in the bark there were found more than one Triterpene-Saponines (Mimonoside A, B and C) it also contains the following Steroidsaponines (3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-campesterol, 3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-stigmasterol, 3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-ß-sitosterol) these are all active. it also contains Luperol, Campesterol, Stigmasterol and ß-sitosterol the bark also contains massive amounts of Calciumoxalat crystals and a lot of starch and tannins. the following alkaloids were found: N,N-DMT, 5-Hydroxytriptamine and ß-carbolines on top of this a new "chalcone" was found. it was named after the maya god Kukulcan: Kukulkanine here's a write up of all the differnt stuff which the bark contains: - Triterpene-Saponines (Mimonosides A, B and C) - Steroidsaponines (3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-campesterol, 3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-stigmasterol, 3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-ß-sitosterol) - Luperol - Campesterol - Stigmasterol - ß-sitosterol - N,N-DMT - 5-Hydroxytriptamine - ß-carbolines - Kukulkanine - a lot of starch and tannins my source for this is the "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" by Christian Rätsch (german 4th edition from 1999) Hope this info helps.. Peace & Light, the mysterious toadman from a small planet on the western spiral arm of the galaxy referred to by its inhabitants as earth I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 686 Joined: 29-Jul-2008 Last visit: 19-Sep-2013 Location: Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy
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so i guess this also solves the question what jungle spice is made of. i guess it kind of depends on what solvent is used to pull it. plus with all these active ingredients this could also be the reason why jungle spice pulled with different solvents has different effects. maybe some stuff is only pulled by specific solvents. research needs to be done. my guess would be that the jungle spice consists of everything but N,N-DMT.. maybe small traces of it remain (if you have pulled with naphtha first that is) can any chemists say something about these actives? what might be pulled by what.. some info like this would be very cool. I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
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The Great Namah
Posts: 3433 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Sep-2020 Location: The place entites go when they smoke allspice
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cheech wrote:so i guess this also solves the question what jungle spice is made of. i guess it kind of depends on what solvent is used to pull it. plus with all these active ingredients this could also be the reason why jungle spice pulled with different solvents has different effects. maybe some stuff is only pulled by specific solvents.
research needs to be done.
my guess would be that the jungle spice consists of everything but N,N-DMT.. maybe small traces of it remain (if you have pulled with naphtha first that is)
can any chemists say something about these actives? what might be pulled by what.. some info like this would be very cool. Maybe, Do we know this is a complete and comprehensive listing? Also it does not take into account any breakdown products from an A/B extraction....but it sure does help with the mystery. Any chemists want to chime in and help out? The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Never underestimate the power of STUFF!
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.
I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
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DMT-Nexus member
    
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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This was published before yuremamine was discovered, so that's missing from the list. But being the unstable creature it is, we know that's not what's being extracted. Of those chemicals, the only thing apt to be psychoactive are beta-carbolines (unfortunately Raetsch doesn't go into detail about what beta-carbolines are found). The "active" triterpene saponins are likely medicinally/topically active (I believe they help burns to heal), but not psychoactive. I'd stand by my conclusions that jungle spice is either a yuremamine breakdown product, or a beta-carboline, or both (and typically contains a substantial amount of DMT as well).
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 686 Joined: 29-Jul-2008 Last visit: 19-Sep-2013 Location: Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy
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oh ok.. i thought that yuremamine and Kukulkanine were the same.. i thought it was just another name for it. ok.. it helps for burns. but thats nice as well. i'm not only interested in psychoactives.. i also love herbal medicine. so if i could extract something to help burns heal faster that would be quite awesome. last time i burnt myself i had to pay something like 20 euros for all the stuff i needed to put on em. i try to make medicine myself whenever possible. I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3555 Joined: 13-Mar-2008 Last visit: 19-Aug-2020 Location: not here
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jungle spice is mostly DMT. All the batches observed by my imaginary friends analytical equipment shows this. Jungle spice should be looked at as DMT with some other impurity in it that one gives it its color and two alters or potentiates the experience of DMT. My imaginary friend also found evidence of a betacarboline structure which could possibly be a breakdown product of yuremamine which was posted on another thread somewhere on this board. The powerful effect of jungle spice is mostly from DMT its obvious when you smoke it.
Anyway when SWIMs friend gets some more mimosa he can do some more targetted analysis if time permits.
Mimosa's main use in countries where it grows is for burns and dye. There are also many other herbs that are much cheaper that one could use for burns.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2024 Location: Jungle
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but if the effects were mostly dmt, then this wouldnt explain the fact that a dosage of it is a third of the normal dmt dosage
this betacarboline structure in it maybe makes all the difference, but as far as I remember, your friend´s experiment showed that it was only in trace amounts, so the mystery still continues, no?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3555 Joined: 13-Mar-2008 Last visit: 19-Aug-2020 Location: not here
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Quote:but if the effects were mostly dmt, then this wouldnt explain the fact that a dosage of it is a third of the normal dmt dosage
this betacarboline structure in it maybe makes all the difference, but as far as I remember, your friend´s experiment showed that it was only in trace amounts, so the mystery still continues, no? Thats exactly why I think something is potentiating DMT because the dose is much less. Also the jungle spice may be preventing the DMT from being destroyed during the vaporizing process by shielding it from oxygen in the oily goo who knows its tough to say. But yes the mystery does still continue I just want to clarify to people that jungle spice contain a lot of DMT at least when heated and blasted with ions in a mass spectrometer  SWIM wants to follow this up with some fresh plant material so SWIM can try some other fancy tricks only a matter of time.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 686 Joined: 29-Jul-2008 Last visit: 19-Sep-2013 Location: Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy
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yeah it must be the beta carboline structure causing the increase of effects. has anyone ever managed isolating yuremamine in pure form? has there been testing on human subjects? is there any info on extracting only the yuremamine? I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3555 Joined: 13-Mar-2008 Last visit: 19-Aug-2020 Location: not here
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^^ It would be tough to do by simple solvent partitioning since its seems to be unstable. Chromatography is probably necessary (a lot of work and mimosa). I would hope the group who first identified it is going to do some pharmacological studies on the compound but perhaps not.
Anyway SWIM was thinking of getting some mimosa and just taking some methanol and letting it sit in it for a day or two. Then test that on GC-MS (LC-MS is too much of a bitch to set up right now for SWIM). Would people be interested in such data? If so SWIM will ask SWIM's imaginary friend.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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I'd be fairly interested in the GC/MS results from a methanolic extract of mimosa, whenever you have the time. And cheech, if you're interested in mimosa as a source of topical burn-treatment, generally the stem bark is used for that, rather than the DMT-rich root bark. Just do a google search for the hispanic name of the tree, "tepezcohuite", and you'll find an abundance of products prepared from the tree.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3555 Joined: 13-Mar-2008 Last visit: 19-Aug-2020 Location: not here
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Only reason methanol was that was what they used in the yuramamine study. Problem may be the heat will destroy yuramamine but so would smoking the spice so who knows worth checking out. What SWIM is really interested in is to compare jungle spice extracted normal STB pulled with toluene and just the bark extracted with a solvent and no base. Compare the profile.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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Please provide a source indicating that kokusaginine is present in MHRB. I've seen absolutely no evidence of this. It appears to be a chemical which is present only in Rutaceae. Jonathan Ott does not call it "morphine-like in structure", that's how the person who asked Jonathan Ott about it described it; looking at the structures, I have absolutely no idea what they were talking about. I see no substantial (or even superficial) similarity between the structures of kokusaginine and morphine. From my Jungle Spice article: Entropymancer wrote:I.3 "Kokusaginine"When browsing around threads discussing jungle spice, inevitably you start running across people claiming that kokusaginine is likely the chemical responsible for Jurema's reported oral activity. 9, 17, 24, 31 Generally these posters cite the 1999 Entheogen Review article where Jonathan Ott and K. Trout are asked their opinions on the matter. 6 Unfortunately, these people seem to have read no further than the second paragraph before leaping to this completely unfounded conclusion. To summarize: The article begins with a question from a reader, "J.S, OR". Quote:Jonathan Ott seems to think that Mimosa hostilis is active without MAOI added. The ingredient, kokusaginine, which is morphine-like in structure, may possess MAOI properties... I would suggest that the kokusaginine, supposedly insoluble in water, is nonetheless extracted enough... Does anyone know, for certain, what the effects of kokusaginine are? K. Trout was asked about this, to which he replied Quote:I have only heard of kokusaginine reported from the Rutaceae. I know nothing about its activity except for the fact a related compound was reported to be antagonistic to Ditran... I did notice a very strong stuporous component with one bioassay of M. tenuiflora root-bark and a MAOI, that I did not in the others. Jonathan would be the best one to talk with about this. So the folks at Entheogen Review asked Jonathan Ott, and here's what he had to say: Quote:I've no idea whence derives the querist's notion that kokusaginine occurs in M. tenuiflora, and I am in agreement with K. Trout's remark in this regard, while it is a mystery to me why it would be assumed this compound possesses MAOI activity, nor indeed how this compound - or moclobemide, with which it is structurally unrelated - is "morphine-like," none of which has anything to do with the recondite pharmacology of jurema preta/ tepescohuite, in any case.
Perhaps there is some confusion here between the rutaceous kokusaginine [found in New Caledonian Dutaillyea spp., among others] and the so-called "kukulkanins" reported from powdered stem-bark of Mexican tepescohuite [misreported as Mimosa tenuefolia L. (sic): Journal of Natural Products 52(4): 864- 867, 1989], also of obscure pharmacology. There is no reason to suppose this compound or any of the diverse saponins likewise reported from bark of Mexican tepescohuite show MAOI activity, and at least five phytochemical analyses of Brazilian jurema preta [mostly unpublished] have failed to show presence of ß-carbolines (Editor's note: I find this comment significant in light of some claims on the internet that the identity of the red pigment has been established firmly as a ß-carboline) nor any other category of potent MAOI. Moreover, pharmacologically and pharmacodynamically, the psychoptic effects of cold-water, hand squeezed and short-time-infused, aqueous extracts of simple pounded jurema preta root-bark prepared according to the traditional manner as documented in several Brazilian reports, bears no relation to the - to me - well-known pharmacology of the ß-carbolines and other MAOI...
Preliminary chemical evidence reveals rather the presence of several novel and yet-unidentified DMT adducts in jurema preta root-bark, apart from free DMT itself. Either these compounds show oral activity per se, not being substrate to gastric MAO, or rather show a higher affinity for the enzyme[s], serving thus as competitive inhibitors respective to DMT for its active site[s], in the manner that the ß-carbolines do. My current work strongly suggests the former conjecture is the more parsimonious.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1052 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 30-May-2021
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Well, on the non-scientific side, my friend has been experimenting with aya analogs using mimosa extracts of varying degrees of purity.
Taken with extracted harmala, he has found that a simple methanol extract gives a deep, long trip - ecstatic and euphoric, while pure crystalline DMT is more like an hour long smoked dose, fast and intense with an abrupt drop off.
He's next planning on extracting an A/B with xylene right off the go and comparing it to the two.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 686 Joined: 29-Jul-2008 Last visit: 19-Sep-2013 Location: Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy
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could one use 96.6% ethanol for this purpose too? how does the resulting product look and smell if extracted with methanol? when extracting with methanol did you just put the bark in the alcohol and let it sit for a while and then strain off the alcohol? how much methanol was used on what quantity of bark? a friend of mine wants to do some testing as well.. but he only has ethanol at the moment. I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3555 Joined: 13-Mar-2008 Last visit: 19-Aug-2020 Location: not here
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how do you test your purity? purity cannot be determined by simple bioassays. most people are extracting jungle spice with toluene or xylene both of which extract lots of DMT so in that case it does contain dmt. if SWIY did something else please share SWIM is interested.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 296 Joined: 25-May-2008 Last visit: 04-Aug-2013
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Noman wrote:Well, on the non-scientific side, my friend has been experimenting with aya analogs using mimosa extracts of varying degrees of purity.
Taken with extracted harmala, he has found that a simple methanol extract gives a deep, long trip - ecstatic and euphoric, while pure crystalline DMT is more like an hour long smoked dose, fast and intense with an abrupt drop off.
He's next planning on extracting an A/B with xylene right off the go and comparing it to the two. Yes, please provide details on this simple extraction. SWIM would like to try a simple method to prep gel-cappable product from mimosa.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1052 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 30-May-2021
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He has no way of testing purity - that's what I mean by non-scientific.
The method is to cover the powdered bark with methanol, let it sit for a day or two, pour off the methanol, and repeat. Then he rinses the bark in two changes of water, combines the methanol and water, and cooks the lot (carefully) down to dry.
The comparison he made was between a quantity of this extract obtained from 10g MHRB and a quantity of glass clear shards obtained from 10g MHRB that had been A/B extracted using naptha and a freeze precip followed by a recrystalization in heptane.
I know that a xylene extract will be mostly DMT, what I'm interested in is if it will also contain the additional alks that bioassay shows the methanol extract to contain and the recrystalized extract to be missing. Also interesting would be to compare a xylene extract done after the solution had been naptha extracted a few times.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3555 Joined: 13-Mar-2008 Last visit: 19-Aug-2020 Location: not here
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Yes removing most of the spice from xylene or toluene pulls would help with analysis and bioassaying of jungle spice.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 686 Joined: 29-Jul-2008 Last visit: 19-Sep-2013 Location: Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy
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a friend has a 9 gram solid piece of dmt deprived jungle spice waiting to be tested further. is there any way of getting rid of the dmt-n-oxide from the jungle spice without destroying the rest? I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
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