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entheogenic effects of NMT (monomethyl-tryptamine) Options
 
nen888
#1 Posted : 7/1/2011 5:16:19 AM
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..hi nexians,
have decided to "leak" my own data. i have a formal paper & talk on this subject which i hope to deliver around the end of the year.
this is a brief outline of the main points. the paper will contain the complete chemical data to satisfy replicable scientific experiment.
talk would focus more on the subjective effects & health/safety issues.
will have to launch an internal investigation into how such sensitive information made it out..

The following research was conducted 2000-2001.

Phyllodes and (thin strips of) bark of A. obtusifolia were collected from roadside populations (being careful to do as little permanent damage as possible to the trees.)
A total alkaloid content of 0.3% (fresh material) was obtained which GCMS determined consisted mainly of monomethyl-tryptamine (NMT) & dimethyltryptamine at a 2:1 ratio. A small amount of presumed Leptocladine (beta-carboline) was present but no reference sample was available.

NMT was separated from the other alkloids by column and paper chromatography using aqueous methanol(10%)/dichloromethane 1:9 (after considerable trial & effort).

In most attempts NMT would not crystalize easily and was usually seen as a white or yellow oil (darkening with exposure to air).

Crystalized samples were subjected to bio-assay by 3 experienced voluntary subjects, in control set and setting conditions.

Upon vapourization of the pure material, it was found that monomethyl-tryptamine has entheogenic effects, becoming noticeable after 3-5 minutes, attaining full strength for 30-45 seconds, and gradually disappearing over 45-70 minutes. No negative or lingering side effects were noted. It was roughly estimated at 1/3 the potency of DMT. It is possible that at very high doses some MAO inhibition may occur (as is the case with 5meoDMT).

The instigating test subject describes it's subjective effects as differing from DMT in being: "...not so much a visual or auditory entheogen, although there were some visuals, but rather a 'Spatial hallucinogen'...imagine you could 'feel' but not see an Escher world..."

This has important implications for research in neurophysiology, Spatial Memory (some of Nen's work), perceptual processing (and maybe even stringtheory...)

Conjecture was raised as to how this material may interact or even synergize with other tryptamines when combined.

...anyway, there u have it.
if i do talk at a conference i will probably call it "NMT from acacia .: a 'Spatial Entheogen?"

have put this in the domain to encourage research, and for those already doing research to come forward.
wider work needs to be done, with only a handful of people ever having tried NMT.

ps. NMT is found in high quantities in many plants incl. Acacia confusa, A. maidenii, several Mimosa & Desmanthus spp., but is usually only found in conjunction with other tryptamines. It is (as "endlessness" points out) also a minor byproduct of dmt synthesis. also ref. to as n-methyltryptamine.
[it should also be noted that tar, gum, wax, fatty acids can be found in unrefined alkaloid extracts of A. obtusifolia & some of these may have undesirable side-effects...there are 'cleaner' acacias for those interested in dimethyltryptamine]

{Edit: for a summary of a more detailed later talk given on NMT see page 4 here}
 

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EquaL Observer
#2 Posted : 7/1/2011 10:42:50 AM

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Interesting stuff! Must be great being part of such research. Very keen to hear how this may be related to string theory. Perhaps a very potent brew made from acacia by itself could be effective...
Your depth is your integrity
 
nen888
#3 Posted : 7/1/2011 3:30:19 PM
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..hi, sure there are many deep moments to be sure, although you occasionally come across the odd toxin
which makes one wonder why one got oneself into these test launches..i guess to further the collective.
Shulgin's Tikhal is a great example of the up & downsides of human bio-assay, but it would be unethical to do these
things to involuntary mice.. might post on occupational health & safety of such exploits after i've given my eyes a few days away from monitors,

oh, superstring theory (which they now call M-theory, but nobody knows why)...i'll give my brain a rest and get back2u on thatWink
 
nen888
#4 Posted : 7/3/2011 11:45:54 AM
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..info flow addendum:

.. NMT appears as 'safe' as DMT in conjunction with MAOIs, the duration of the effects being increased to 4-7hrs. Somatic and (not unpleasant) tremoring effects may occur. 2 test subjects reported a slight 'overstimulation' but without visuals which they found hard to describe. another subject found it to be highly 'meditational' and slightly sedative, instead. more controls are needed to account for these discrepencies...

 
Dr_Sister
#5 Posted : 7/4/2011 2:41:34 PM

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Wow! nice work nen888!

Sister has been struggling with a column lately and has a few questions about the details of that part of your proceedure.

1. In what order did the dmt and nmt elute?
2. How large was the crude extract?
3. How much stationary phase did you use? (and which?)
4. What volume of solvent did you pass through the column?
5. Was there much/any overlap in the dmt and nmt being eluted?
6. Did you use any visualization reagent?

Thank you.
 
nen888
#6 Posted : 7/4/2011 4:54:46 PM
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..no notes nearby, but from rough memory

1. nmt>betacarboline(very narrow band, UV)> dmt
2. no idea from memory, never large amounts
3. paper was most successful
4. notes not handy
5. very distinct bands, almost no overlap (that the material was fairly pure was also determined by empirical weight i.e GCMSratio/weight expected)
6. none of the reagents on hand (incl. silico-tunguscic & dragendorf's) could distinguish clearly between nmt & dmt...
 
nen888
#7 Posted : 7/5/2011 5:10:29 AM
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thanks Dr.Sister for raising technical points.

..i should point out that i was overall co-ordinator of the exp.; an advanced chemist performed the GCMS, while the column & paper chromatography was performed at different locations by another chemist & myself.
all agreed the more data that can be collected on the parameters of nmt, the better. a lot of just trial & error work was done (in particular to arrive at a solvent mix for chromatography).

guess this molecule's been mostly ignored for 50 years, so there's a lot of catching up to do...

 
soulfood
#8 Posted : 7/5/2011 1:47:42 PM

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I had an experience 2 weeks ago using acacia confusa orally instead of my usual mimosa with 3g's rue.

The effects lasted nearly 2x as long and there was a strong seditive quality with many moments of mindlessness/ vacancy of thought.

So this is NMT?
 
endlessness
#9 Posted : 7/5/2011 1:51:50 PM

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Acacia confusa rootbark or?

I ask because i got a sample of acacia that im gonna do a TLC test in the next couple of weeks, but its not the rootbark. Im wondering if someone could send me a sample of the rootbark I could test it to compare with mh uk's earlier stuff.
 
nen888
#10 Posted : 7/5/2011 2:47:55 PM
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have only ever found NMT in various acacia trunk/branch bark &/or leaves.
i usually leave acacia root bark alone as (unlike Mimosas) damage to roots usually kills the trees. percentages are only slighter higher & in some cases lower than trunk bark.

the only other successful extraction of NMT from a plant source i have been told of was from Desmanthus illinoensis (Illinois Prarie Flower), not sure which part. It had a roughly 2:1 nmt/dmt ratio like the studied acacia, at 0.2-3%approx. A second Desmanthus species was said to be much higher in alkaloids. this was done in the mid '90s, in the US. there was no bioassay, dont't know their method, but reliable source.
[very early Entheogen Review i'm sure had some stuff on these plants & their extraction..though not the nmt separation]

another note: a research friend has found multiple examples of A. maidenii in which the tryptamine content is much higher in the leaves than the bark. the dmt/nmt ratios changes about too.
not exactly any root mean square in the wattle world...

in terms of synergystic factors, it's about ratios...
 
nen888
#11 Posted : 7/5/2011 2:55:49 PM
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Quote:
effects lasted nearly 2x as long and there was a strong seditive quality with many moments of mindlessness/ vacancy of thought.


..good chance it is, good chance also it's an alkaloid mix (or less likely but possible, something else).
the description has aspects similar to an NMThuasca experience i 'observed' 10 years ago.

thanks soulfood for the feedback...
 
Xt
#12 Posted : 7/5/2011 3:48:57 PM
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nen888 wrote:

In most attempts NMT would not crystalize easily and was usually seen as a white or yellow oil (darkening with exposure to air).


An A/b on the lower stem bark of Acacia Confusa yielded a large amount of fumarate salts which when freebased... matched this description. A large yield loss was noted going from fumarate to freebase, non polar solvent (naphtha) was used to yield the final freebase which would not crystallize despite much effort.

Find the others.
 
nen888
#13 Posted : 7/5/2011 3:54:06 PM
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..thank u Xt, starting to feel like a slow convergence of results could happen here.
great to get some more new data for the nexus...
 
nen888
#14 Posted : 7/13/2011 9:51:07 AM
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..found this lone comment on a 2006 net forum discussion:
Quote:
I think *NMT's effects work best when combined with DMT. Try extracting a plant that has high levels of both, I've tried one and it was pretty intense, more so than normal DMT xtal. Have not tried it alone so cannot comment.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=283967 but this discussion doesn't really go anywhere (except a single & questionable 5meo-nmt report+4HOnmt inactivity)

..i would agree entirely that an NMT/DMT combination is more 'forceful' in some way, or at least 'different'/'expanded'..(ratio dependant)

..still not able to find any true scientific data showing NMT to be inactive (as claimed in most old literature)...

also has been suggested (Lycaeum recent) that the NMT was demethylising into Tryptamine through pyrolisis, and that tryptamine was described as
"a very fast acting psychedelic when injected at relatively large doses", but the MAOI tests suggest this is not the case...

i remember reading in '70s literature that bufotenine was either inactive, or caused your face to turn the colour of an eggplant,
which we now know isn't exactly the case...
 
nen888
#15 Posted : 7/23/2011 4:02:41 AM
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i can't find anything on NMT having being smoked or injected (except Tikhal ref)..most common description of
NMT is a "putative entheogen"...has been found (like DMT) in human urine http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22091
..i have a few other reports of it's activity from my research group, and that's it, so hoping someone else will try the experiment soon...
(see also 1st NMT experience description)
 
hebrew
#16 Posted : 7/23/2011 4:22:27 AM
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interesting discussion

sparked an interest in me, i have a 8 year old maidenii, might do some work on the phyllodes when i get a chance, was told about maidens wattle leaves containing something else, in them from doing a water ext, and basifying that with sodium carbonate i think he said, to precipitate something of interest but my memory is vague.

would you go about extracting maidenii phyllodes A/B or use someother method to get NMT?

 
nen888
#17 Posted : 7/23/2011 5:10:28 AM
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..the original CSIRO test of A. maidenii (1969) found 2/3 NMT, 1/3 DMT..bioassays of this strain found it very active!
Additional tests by 'M' found a small amount of betacarboline (approx 2-3% of total alkaloid, not unlike some obtusifolia).
'M' found a strain with 0.7% alkaloid in phyllodes...
 
nen888
#18 Posted : 7/23/2011 11:34:49 AM
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Hebrew asks
Quote:
would you go about extracting maidenii phyllodes A/B or use someother method to get NMT?


..in the earlier described experiment the alkaloids were extracted STB, then separated by column/paper cromatography.
i don't know of any specific nmt selective solvent...
 
hebrew
#19 Posted : 7/23/2011 12:49:10 PM
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thanks
 
nen888
#20 Posted : 7/23/2011 11:36:29 PM
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..for the scientists amongst us, here is all published bio-assay data on NMT (N-Methyltryptamine)http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...ay.cgi?q=da&cid=6088
No human tests for psychoactivity, but some 5HT binding tests which suggest activity...
 
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