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Trying to improve Acacia information Options
 
nen888
#121 Posted : 9/28/2011 1:48:00 AM
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..for an example of the more exotic end of multi-alkaloid acacias..
Acacia elata (Aus)
[i have been in the past made aware of the following:]
- extracts of a single tree bio-assayed in 2004 were found to contain
DMT, 5meoDMT, NMT, formyltryptamine? (1-2%) & betacarbolines [see p.3 this thread]
(there is a little confusion as to the identity of the formyltryptamine..attempts at chromatography yielded an apparent conjugate bewteen tryptamines..only one GCMS was performed..the carbolines were not conclusively ID'd & were multiple.. )

two experienced subjects (A & B) simultaneously tested extracts in separate rooms..


with 30-40mg vaporized (subject A)

"before exhalation there was a sudden impact similar to being hit in the head by a large object, not physically painful, but similar nonetheless..
upon exhaling moments later there was a sudden conglomeration of 'semi-solid' visuals immediately in front of the face and somehow 'in' the frontal lobe..
tremoring began, and it felt as if the bones in my face might shift..there was also an impending sense of the 5meo-dmt 'eyes turning inwards' sensation..
i worried my heart felt tight..i felt somehow pained throughout my body, but also felt that this was somehow an 'uncleanness' of my system, not of the extract..dark colored geometrics persisted on a black background"
"after perhaps 3 minutes of this i began intuitively voluntarily tremoring and shaking..this began to feel good..the more i did this, in 'sync' with the effects of the extract, the better i began to feel.."
"mild geometric visuals diminished at around 25-30 minutes.
i felt extraordinarily clear and humbled at the same time..a very sober and serious, though not negative, afterglow..i felt very silent.."
"after 40 minutes i stood and walked outside, to see (subject B) doing the same..
'that was a bit like a punch in the face!' he commented, head bowed and walking to his sleeping quarters with a serious expression..i agreed and walked silently to the kitchen for a cup of tea.."

with 50mg vaporized (subject A)

"while, after the first experience, i wasn't sure i wanted to try it again, the feeling i had during it that i had been somehow unprepared persisted.."
"a week later, after a 5-6km walk, and having refrained from smoking. caffine, and any excessive or possibly MAOI toxic foods, a second attempt was made, with two inhalations, the second difficult to perform.."
"the speed and almost brutality of the onset was again shocking, again with immediate, almost physically 'feelable' visuals/semi-entites in a most in one's face manner..a forecful instruction on the places of the inside..
a vertiginous sense of body-field.."
"this time i did not feel any pain, and at around the 3 minute point, during involuntary tremors began singing low vowels..these affected visions, which were mostly dark colors..this time i was prepared..at around 7 minutes i stood, slightly awkwardly, pressed play on an afro-carribean drumming cd, and began to shake and dance, whist singing..this produced more brightly colorful mild visuals, and felt very physically cleansing/healing..
effects noticeably diminished at around 45 minutes..
i felt elated.."

"a strong plant"
.

so, maybe a tree for the more experienced entheovoyager interested in possibly 'yoponic' like plants (though, this is a single test only)
..an absolutely gorgeous cold-tolerant ornamental tree to grow...
.
 

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nen888
#122 Posted : 9/28/2011 2:10:28 AM
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..here's some images of Acacia victoriae, australian native and grown internationally..found by Trout & friends to contain 5meoDMT,
a multiple bio-assay report c.2003 from South Australia suggested it contained more DMT than 5meo..said to be a 'powerful and enlightening' smoke..
..the seeds are edible and sold in the bush-food industry, they are very high in protein (some wattle seeds higher than some meats)
...
nen888 attached the following image(s):
wild victoriae2.JPG (35kb) downloaded 826 time(s).
acacia_victoriae flowering_.JPG (21kb) downloaded 825 time(s).
acacia victoriae_1.JPG (24kb) downloaded 824 time(s).
 
nen888
#123 Posted : 9/30/2011 5:49:47 AM
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..now that i finally have a copy of Garden Of Eden (2009) by Snu Voogenbreinder, i can add some more confirmed tryptamine acacias to the thread,
thanks SnuSmile ..

firstly, from Asia we have Acacia caesia, native to Southern China, Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia,
Thailand, Myanmar, Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, India (widespread) and Sri Lanka. The bark yielded DMT-N-Oxide & Tryptamine [Ghosal 1972].

from Africa & the Middle East is Acacia nubica..small amounts of DMT were found in the leaves of a Sudan tree(only 1 test) by Khalil & Elkheir 1975.
nen888 attached the following image(s):
A. caesia1.jpg (13kb) downloaded 810 time(s).
A. caesia2.jpg (10kb) downloaded 811 time(s).
acacianubica.jpg (18kb) downloaded 808 time(s).
acacia_nubica_e009.jpg (142kb) downloaded 803 time(s).
 
nen888
#124 Posted : 9/30/2011 6:01:30 AM
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..& from Australia we have:

Acacia neurophylla native southern states,
hybridizes with A. acuminata..found to contain DMT (bark), harman & norharman (leaves) [S.Voogenbreinder citing 'Jeremy 2007']

Acacia difformis native NSW, Vic.
a single test found small amounts of DMT & 5meoDMT [S.Voogenbreinder citing Trout]

i'll update the lists soon (makes 29 confirmed spp. in Australia, 42 suspected all up)

Garden Of Eden (The Shamanic Use Of Psychoactive Flora and Fauna and the Study of Consciousness) by S. Voogenbreinder is self published, avavilable a few places on the net..it is the most comprehensive reference of psychoactive plants and animals i have seen to date, more extensive and up to date (at 2009) than Ott's Pharmacopeia or Ratsch's encyclopedia..

here's Acacias neurophyyla & difformis...
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Acacia neurophylla1.jpg (653kb) downloaded 792 time(s).
A.neurophyyla spp neurophyyla1.jpg (51kb) downloaded 783 time(s).
Acacia_difformis_1.jpg (40kb) downloaded 776 time(s).
acacdiff900lq.jpg (16kb) downloaded 771 time(s).
 
Entropymancer
#125 Posted : 9/30/2011 6:08:30 AM

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nen888 wrote:
Garden Of Eden (The Shamanic Use Of Psychoactive Flora and Fauna and the Study of Consciousness) by S. Voogenbreinder is self published, avavilable a few places on the net..it is the most comprehensive reference of psychoactive plants and animals i have seen to date, more extensive and up to date (at 2009) than Ott's Pharmacopeia or Ratsch's encyclopedia.


Absolutely. This is hands-down the best book on psychoactive plants that I've come across. Snu doesn't go into quite as much detail as Ott on some topics, but he covers nearly every plant of possible interest, while Ott maintained a narrower focus. Compared to Rätsch's Encyclopedia, Snu's book stands head and shoulders above it. He covers many more plants, and in much greater detail than Rätsch... and isn't prone to Rätsch's unfortunate tendency to be lax with factual accuracy and citations.

I can't praise the book highly enough. It's hard to believe that there are still copies available, since only 500 were printed and it was released two years ago. To anyone looking for the absolute best reference on psychoactive plants, I'd recommend snapping up a copy before they're all gone.

And nen: This is good work you're doing on developing more information on Acacia trees. I have no doubt that there are plenty of pharmacological mysteries in the genus just waiting to be unraveled.
 
nen888
#126 Posted : 10/1/2011 12:33:04 PM
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..thank you EntropymancerSmile

..here's a link to the page of Trout's Notes where you can order Garden Of Eden, hopefully there'll be another print run soon...
http://www.troutsnotes.com/sc/snu.html
 
dehingoli
#127 Posted : 10/1/2011 3:03:59 PM
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Can anyone guide me if the caesia is the same as Leucaena leucocephala? can't find any info anywhere.

Thanks. Been looking into this tree before and I doubted its alkaloids.

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beil
#128 Posted : 10/2/2011 11:20:25 AM

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Uncle has attempted on several occassions to extract from Queensland Silver Wattle (Acacia Podalyriifolia) (using acid/base and stb teks) with no success... he would like to know if anyone else has been successful with this species?
"I thrive best hermit style... with a beard and a pipe and a parrot on each side..." Bjork
 
dehingoli
#129 Posted : 10/2/2011 2:42:50 PM
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May i know if any pulchellums were studied by snu?
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nen888
#130 Posted : 10/3/2011 3:50:19 AM
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dehingoli wrote
Quote:
Can anyone guide me if the caesia is the same as Leucaena leucocephala?

..i'll get back to you on that after checking references..Snu should appear again soon..Smile

beil, hi, there is a discussion of Acacia podalyriifolia here: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d...aspx?g=posts&t=23713
..the finding of DMT has not been replicated, but it may contain NMT..
 
nen888
#131 Posted : 10/4/2011 8:02:55 AM
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dehingoli, Leucaena leucocephala (which looks like it should be re-classified mimosa to me) is native to Central America..it contains the alkaloid Mimosine or leucenol, β-3-hydroxy-4 pyridone..i can find no records of it growing in Asia..
..it does look very similar to Acacia caesia, which i am still searching for asian distribution records..appears to be endangered in it's originally native China..
..the difference between the two seems to come down to leaves and pods, though they may have a long time ago been the same species...

here's Leucaena leucocephala and Acacia caesia flowers (respectively):
nen888 attached the following image(s):
leucaena-leucocephala[1].jpg (533kb) downloaded 695 time(s).
a.caesia flower057ce2[2].jpg (118kb) downloaded 693 time(s).
 
komet
#132 Posted : 10/4/2011 9:14:18 AM

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nen888,

Sorry if you have covered this already but what are your thoughts on alkaloid content and an acacia's age? I have heard about the seasonal variability of course, but not much regarding age.
 
wira
#133 Posted : 10/4/2011 3:59:37 PM

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dehingoli wrote:
May i know if any pulchellums were studied by snu?

Hi dehingoli, are you referring to Desmodium pulchellum?
 
dehingoli
#134 Posted : 10/4/2011 4:19:16 PM
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yep, ive been wondering if Desmodium pulchellum had any alks that might be interesting.

Thanks. Any info on that?
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komet
#135 Posted : 10/4/2011 11:26:13 PM

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Here is what you are looking for, dehingoli.

Trout's Notes on Desmodium - PDF
www.troutsnotes.com/sc/D2_2004_Trout.pdf
 
nen888
#136 Posted : 10/5/2011 5:23:28 AM
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komet (hi!) wrote:
Quote:
what are your thoughts on alkaloid content and an acacia's age? I have heard about the seasonal variability of course, but not much regarding age.
..i'm reluctant to say this but older age probably results in higher alkaloid content..remember (wild-harvesters) that a 1ft in diameter A. obtusifolia or maidenii can be over 100years old (wild growth rates very slow)..i always recommend large branch bark (usually same content as trunk, not so harmful to the tree as trunk bark)
certainly, seedlings or plants younger than 3 years are lower in alkaloids than mature trees..

dehingoli, the more i examine pictures of leaves, the difference between Leucaena leucocephala & Acacia caesia becomes clearer...


 
nen888
#137 Posted : 10/5/2011 5:35:16 AM
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..please note that i have updated the Australian Tryptamine (& psychoactive) Acacias List on p.5 of this thread..
it has some updated info.
..there are now 34 confirmed aussie species and 11 strong suspects (with more expected)

..it was pointed out to me by Mulga that in the '90s the CSIRO screened 158 random species of australian acacia for the presence of alkaloids..46% were positive..with this statistic we should expect up to 450 aussie species to turn up!
..to date the majority of acacia alkaloids found have been tryptamines, followed by phenethylamines, with a handful of unknown or obscure ones..

..for the main special interests of the nexus, the most recommended is still A. acuminata (just 'spice'Pleased, followed by A. floribunda (some other alkaloids), and A. maidenii (Narrow Leaf variety - some nmt) ..a few of the other spp. on the p.5 list are good & tested, but are highly variable, rare, or harder to grow.. (goto post #82)

.
 
nen888
#138 Posted : 10/6/2011 4:17:53 AM
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.. (a few minor bugs fixed in the new Update of p.5(this thread) post#82 Australian acacia list)

..to add a bit more to komet's age question, the highest amount of alkaloids i have ever detected in acacia phyllode (0.7%) was in a 6-7 year old A. maidenii x obtusifolia grown from seed in 'garden' conditions..i have almost never touched the bark of very old wild trees for ethical reasons..a possible few extra percentage points content is not, to me, worth the damage..

..in the list i give the estimated number of A. phlebophylla mature adult trees as 15,000...this was based on a botanical survey (which found 2 additional populations to the then known 1) done prior to serious bushfires a few years back..numbers may have been reduced to 5-7000..i have it on good word, however, that many young seedlings are growing (germinated by the fire) and, without further catastrophe, should reach the above figure 'general range of endemic-ness' over the next decade..

..the species (like P. virdids) is a fairly pure source of dmt (with 0.3% in the leaves, around 98% pure), and makes a very good standard for alkaloid testing (only a leaf required for this)

but it needs to have it's growing method worked out more (& obviously it would be better to leave it to grow in the wild, it is a protected species) ..it would be a good hobby experiment for horticulturalists
..a decade ago it was said to be very difficult to grow outside it's native (alpine) habitat, and micro-rhyzobial associates were theorized to be required..however, i have now seen at least half a dozen seed grown trees, large & healthy, in cultivation..also, a 10 year old 'semi-bonsai' in a concrete tub (fat, but only 4ft tall) ..it has also been successfully grown in tissue culture (cloning of cutting material)
..it may be particularly suited to alpine cold conditions..

respect all trees...
.
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Acacia phlebophylla AVK 140 copy.jpg (179kb) downloaded 650 time(s).
cultivated phlebo w juvinile leaves-.jpg (8kb) downloaded 649 time(s).
 
nen888
#139 Posted : 10/7/2011 4:49:39 AM
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..............................................................................................................................................................................>
..one or two notable female researchers of the acacia light have found that the recently naturally fallen leaves (incl. brown phyllodes) of prefered species (e.g. phlebophylla, floribunda etc. ) still contain good amounts of alkaloids (if there hasn't been heavy rainfall), and are even preferred in pharmahuasca beverages to fresh leaves..
this is surely the most plant-friendly method of wild (or cultivated) collectionWink thanks ladies...
>..............................................................................................................................................................................


note African Tryptamine Acacias (will update) on p.3, South & Central American Acacias list on p.4, & Asian Acacias p.5


Regarding some findings of low yields of alkaloids:
..Roveli (1967) and 'JG 92' found that, at certain times the tryptamines would become trapped in the gums, tars, or saponins in basic solution, and would not extract into non-polar solvent, despite being present in large amounts..in both cases, and as confirmed by first hand observation, the solution's PH was carefully manipulated up & down, and it was found that at usually slighly lower PH the alkaloids would extract..
..acacias have in general more complex chemistry than mimosas, and some low-yield reports could be due to these factors...


..lastly, for South East Queenslanders (& New South Welshmen),
here is Acacia blakei, not abundant but reasonably widespread in it's habitat..reported to me by another researcher to contain usable quantities of mainly dmt..needs to be grown & studied more...
nen888 attached the following image(s):
acacia-blakei.jpg (37kb) downloaded 629 time(s).
blakei_subsp_blakei_.jpg (164kb) downloaded 626 time(s).
 
nen888
#140 Posted : 10/14/2011 5:32:12 AM
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.the tree in photos posted by sinful_speed (acacia id thread) was identified by rahlii (thanks) as
Adenanthera pavonia ('coralwood'Pleased..in India the seeds are said to be intoxicating and to be used to treat boils and headache..components of the seeds include lignoceric acid, O-acetyethanolamine & galacticol ..as Snu Voogelbreinder says (in Garden Of Eden) - "Caution should be exercised with the seeds of this plant, as the nature of their 'intoxicating' properties is unclear ."
..the genus is unfortunately named as it is NOT an Anadenanthera (as in the S. American Yopo trees), an easy confusion to make (though they are both legumes)
...

..on Acacia chemistry frontiers..
a couple of australian species have displayed mild oral activity without MAOIs, not explainable by the known alkaloids (i.e tryptamines require MAOI, and amounts of beta-carboline are small)
..this has lead to the search for flavinoids and fatty-acids..it is also possible there are more complex indoles broken down in basic extractions (see Complex Indole Alkaloids ('Hyper-Tryptamines'Pleased from plants)
.
 
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