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Trying to improve Acacia information Options
 
phyllode
#821 Posted : 11/3/2012 11:25:54 AM

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Thanks nen. And bless you all Acacia Heads!
 

Psychedelic news, articles, interviews and art from the DMT-Nexus and other sources.
 
The Meddling Monk
#822 Posted : 11/6/2012 2:16:26 AM

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another long lurker outed now. from laughing so hard and wanting to "really see what's goin on". Very happy
only thing can possibly think of to add
this thread should be subtitled "2012 - An Acacia Odyssey"! and made available as a pdf.
will be on the ground in africa soon nen. i hope to be able to confirm some of your "clues". and major tom i noticed ott himself went very quiet a while back. at least in publishing. does anyone know what happened to him?
could they have grown acacias in europe a long time ago? when you have time nen.
thanks for the journey. hope it keeps going.

nen888 wrote:
Quote:
'the horror'


"I love the smell of naphtha in the morning! nen." actually, make that acacia flowers in the morning! Smile
 
Major Tom
#823 Posted : 11/6/2012 8:30:49 AM
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Re : Dr Ott . Yes , he might be described as " quiet " lately .... I know I would be if arsonists had torched my house , by starting the fire with my library . It would appear there are some folk who , like Hitler and other bigots condone the burning of books , and believe in the suppression of knowledge , wisdom and truth .Thumbs down
 
The Meddling Monk
#824 Posted : 11/6/2012 9:00:02 AM

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That's awful! major tom. actually I do remember vaguely hearing something about that a while back. I heard he got really hassled out by u.s. biggies in his homeland and had to go somewhere south of the border. Wow. like nen says 'the horror!'.well, it's good the Nexus and other sites are about to keep new info accessible. I read somewhere in here last year nen said Ott had heavily researched A. angustissiama and Pulque. anyone know where this was? or what he discovered. Damn bookburners! its like the library of alexandria again.Stop
 
nen888
#825 Posted : 11/7/2012 1:19:54 AM
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..welcome meddling monk..i've probably met you somewhere on the road i'd say..! yes, the major has given a good briefing of the Dr. Ott situation..sending you the best wherever you are Johnathan! ..i found him a wealth of (to my initial surprise) esoteric/spiritual info..not just a walking encyclopedia..much of his most interesting work of the past decade remains unpublished..re one of your questions..i'll get back to youWink re: A. angustissima,
in North American Tryptamine Acacia & 'Pulque' i wrote:
Quote:
Ott told me that shortly after the Spanish conquest, the acacia constituent was banned from the drink (replaced with substitute), making this tree the first illegal plant in America!...

..see that thread and the index p1 for more on the tree..and, this thread never ends...! like YOU..

below: a butterfly larvae on Acacia angustissima pinnae in Arizona; & Angustissima flowers (pale variety)
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Eurema_m._mexicana_last_instar_on_Acacia_angustissima_USA_ARIZONA_Pima_Co._Tucson_18-XII-2010_BROCK_2.JPG (78kb) downloaded 259 time(s).
Angustissima.jpg (154kb) downloaded 257 time(s).
 
nen888
#826 Posted : 11/7/2012 6:02:36 AM
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..despite my appearances of late i will be quieter here for a while..i can be lured out though..i would really love to hear about YOUR experiences, feelings and information! ..yes you

acacian, i will deliver you that signed copy wrapped in special bark papyrus..just smoke page 3!..ha, ha..but really, i don't even expect or plan to make anything out of it other than what i'm about to get to..i've never made a dime from my love of plants..oh, ok sold a few seedlings once..but got too attached to them to take them to the markets again for all to poke, examine and haggle over..Smile acacian wrote:
Quote:
I hope you write of your experiences in there too, as you have a lot to offer on the subject of plant spirit
..first, let me ask: when does the experience end? an hour after smoking? a day after drinking? ever? so if you want some 'experiential', no 'substances' involved (except the Nexus) ..here we go
..now, Books (as in hard copy; trees with ink) are certainly something! ..but once when i was typing away at a late night post in the Acacia Odyssey (!) the other week i had a strange sense of Forward deja-vu..not quite the same as premonition..is there a word for deja-vu of the future btw anyone? ..anyhow, i saw how information storage and retrieval had taken a step in the past 20 years to a systematic that would probably remain in place as long or longer than physical books..the bit, basically..humans (or indeed other beings from a possible somewhere else) are always fascinated by History and Dialogue or discourse..we love windows into how 'we' felt and thought in the past..so, my flash-forward> there in the future some being was reading what i was in the middle of typing, and trying to feel, 'see' back into what kind of beings we were..the whole Nexus an Ancient document..this is 2012, after all..Smile ..and the other thing about this thread, and many threads, is that they are not simply one point of view like a book usually is..when i read back through my favourite threads it's the discussion and human element i enjoy as much as any great information..that said, the name of this thread is Information..so a big thanks to everyOne's who's posted so far..Very happy

..i left out the next Bit where i tripped out on how the Bit is now regarded as the most fundamental level of 'reality' in physics, as well as information theory..the word...,'spirit' - i imagine - the 'continuum' 'between the bits' and then Terence M saying to me: "Language is the building blocks of reality. The 'shaman' is the Language Maker. He or She has been to the End, and has seen how things Really work." ..but i digress..Smile

when we are one with the spirit of the trees, they see through us..and know what we think and do..

here were all are at whatever the status quo of entheo-acacia knowledge is Now..here..
so, come on my friends..where you all gonna take it? i'm coming along for the ride..
.

ps. please be kind to trees

below, Isis in her Winged Form..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Isis and Angel.jpg (1,290kb) downloaded 227 time(s).
 
phyllode
#827 Posted : 11/7/2012 6:11:34 AM

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Hola Nen!

An interesting thread from the coroboree forums is: A sad site (image heavy)

Is sad, and speaks for itself, mostly. Also, what Major Tom said on p39.
 
nen888
#828 Posted : 11/7/2012 6:23:54 AM
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^..thank you for that link phyllode..yeah, that's not kind! i agree,it's sad..i think most people here agree with you phyllode, at least you've brought more education and discussion on the subject, be it not to a few's taste Very happy

on p.41#818 i wrote:
Quote:
while some acacias with yellow flowers contain tryptamines, many also do not..on the other hand just about every acacia i've looked at with white or cream flowers is positive..whether the flowers are spike or ball shaped isn't important..
and the phyllodes should be bitter, quite bitter too..
.
Smile ..the moon be with you phyllode..

and thanks everyone in the thread who supports the Sustainable model..and to the Nexus administration for having a No Selling Or Buying policy..keeps us and our natural resource friends safer...
 
Seldom
#829 Posted : 11/8/2012 1:40:12 AM

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Speaking of bitter phyllodes, following Norman over at the Lycaeum (thanks nen for that link) i came across a 'quick and dirty STB' method similar to one described here by endlessness somewhere, for having a squiz at unknown species:

"My suggestion would be to smash up the plant material, wetting it if it's not already wet, add an equal amount of a base that is not soluble in NP solvent, make an oatmealey paste of it and let it dry with frequent stirring. Then smash it up and cover it with acetone. Work the acetone through the powder a couple of times, run it through a coffee filter (or whatever), and let it dry on a plate.
The residue from any plant worth exploring further will unmistakably taste of tryptamine when burnt on a knife and inhaled and will probably yield some effect which might indicate more closely what is in there."

depending on how successful it is i hope to try this with: a. rubida (collected today, below), implexa, difformis, cultriformis, baileyana, linearifolia, buxifolia, harpophylla, and i suppose whatever else i can find in the area .. any tips appreciated Smile



shine on crazy diamonds Pleased
Seldom attached the following image(s):
IMG_0867.jpg (71kb) downloaded 438 time(s).
IMG_0868.jpg (25kb) downloaded 435 time(s).
242934_10150297276535550_829630549_9546353_2842199_o.JPG (240kb) downloaded 437 time(s).
 
nen888
#830 Posted : 11/8/2012 3:01:21 AM
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..ha, ha doesn't take much to lure me out..Smile i always knew you were a Jedi Seldom..high five!Stop Very happy

thanks for that find of yours..on p.11 here i mentioned (re: Testing Proceedures):
Quote:
i wish i had a video of JJ's workshop at EGA to send you, but the basics are this: mix ammonium sulfate with a small amount of NaOH in a damp bottle..run a hose from the bottle to a jar containing acetone or MEK..the NaOH will release the ammonium as a gas which will start bubbling into the acetone..buy a standard TLC plate..mix sample in a tiny amount methanol or methylated spirits..by glass capilliary tube or other method place a small spot of sample near the bottom of the TLC plate..place TLC plate upright in beaker with acetone/ammonium..wait 15 minutes..
..now, after drying the plate reagents such as Ehrlich's can be applied..or, bake/heat the plate (don't know optimum temperature) ..tryptamines, after heat treatment will fluoresce under UV (don't have the actual wavelengths handy) ..ß-carbolines will show up UV without heat treatment..also, you can buy pre-treated TLC plates and avoid the ammonium proceedure..
if looking for dmt/nmt, even in a very crude gummy quick extrcact the smell should be an indicator..

..only a few grams of leaf etc. are required..

for lots of great info on DIY testing methods, see How do analytical methods work? (TLC, UV-Vis Spectrophotometry, GC-MS, LC-MS, etc)
& Colorimetric test results (Marquis, Mecke, ..endlessness kicked off..lets score some goals..! also more in in p1 index of course..
then the above quote may make more sense if it's elusive..!
.
elephants have long memories, but trees have longer ones...

ps. The Top 8 Acacias to Grow Worldwide..<click link..



3rd pic below an acacia salicina wood (cooba) guitar..for sound Seldom..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Twilight Tree by Jedi Lurch.jpg (56kb) downloaded 399 time(s).
Acacia - German Cover.JPG (34kb) downloaded 394 time(s).
ATW-2011-Cooba-Set2c.jpg (114kb) downloaded 391 time(s).
 
nen888
#831 Posted : 11/10/2012 11:05:06 AM
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..i wanted to have a post dealing specifically with Seasonal Variation of alkaloids in Acacias..
a few posts in the thread discussing it include p10 #187, 188 & 200..
..while in general experience with section Juilflorae alkaloids are reduced during flowering, i have not yet looked in detail at other sections of Acacia, which include the bi-pinnate species like A. mearnsii..a very recent report suggests alkaloids during flowering..so it may be different for different types of acacia..in the case of some rod flowered acacias (Juliflorae) during seeding the plant produced Bufotenine..but not at other times..
for a brief discussion of Sections of Acacia see p.30 here..
..also, as stated often in the thread, heavy rain seems to correlate with reduced alkaloids..

wira wrote p15#288:
Quote:
all of White's Acacia analyses were done on plants growing in New Zealand.
Regarding alkaloids during flowering, White often found reasonably high levels of alkaloids in the flowers, and while perhaps reduced, content in stems was sometimes still reasonable (less so in phyllodes). This was observed with longifolia and numerous others (most of this should be summed up on the wikipedia page for Acacias known to contain psychoactive alkaloids, unless someone's changed it since I last edited it).

nen888 replied:
Quote:
i was pondering writing a post on seasonal variation, but there isn't a lot of systematic study..in my own research alkaloids have been reduced (not absent) and changed (e.g. more of other alkaloids) during flowering of a few species..also, floral oils can be present in stem bark which transfer to NP extractions..and as i've mentioned, heavy rain seems to affect things..others have noted this..

..essentially a lot more data needs to be gathered from different regions on more species to be able to have any kind of statistically meaningful picture of Acacia Alkaloid Seasonal Flux..

but add to that Genetic or Sub-type/Chemotype variance..of which A. longifolia and A. obtusifolia are classic examples of..or:
Quote:
Acacia retinodes (Swamp Wattle, or Wirilda) being native to southern Australia, and naturalized in such diverse places as Hawaii, Bolivia, France and Spain..
it has several sub-varieties..
..one German reported test found 0.5% alkaloids (DMT, NMT, nicotine); Roveli in Australia [1967] found 0.2% of a completely unknown alkaloid, and no nicotine..

and on top of that factor add: Individual Variation..e.g. researcher JJ found some individual plants of A. multisiliqua to contain DMT, while others did not..why is not understood..
and even beyond that Smile is Predatory Defence Changes induced by for instance insect borer attack or human bark-attack..more defence compounds such as phenolics and non-standard alkaloids can be produced..

..great, the complexity, isn't? ha ha but don't worry, enough species are fairly stable throughout the year, or have just slight fluctuation, that everything'll be ok for those seeking simplicity..

..i should also add that different extraction methods and solvents can bring out different ranges of alkaloids, for instance be selective or broad..and some have suggested that prolonged boiling under acid can alter the composition of some alkaloids (betacarbolines in particular)
..but, rather than take on too many different methods, i merely suggest find a method that works for you, and use it as a Control if true experimentation on the Plant, rather than the method, is the orientation..

in the future i'll be adding a list of betacarbolines found to date in our wattle friends..
...................................................................................................................................................................................


& for the record (& to remind us that much has been brought forawrd in this epic) i've added another Phyllode Tek to the OP of the Acacia Extraction Workspace..a very successful and smart one..from the quiet achiever dromedary (how'd that lovely looking A. cyclops extract back on p.11-12 go dromedaries..? Smile thanks for the good work..we'll call it 'Experiment 2'..

..i like the direction Seldom is taking entheo-acacia knowledge-building..Smile ..through the window!


spirit guide you all, researchers of the acacia..
.
 
phyllode
#832 Posted : 11/11/2012 1:46:26 AM

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Interesting about the alkaloids in flowers. Maybe that's where they migrate to?
I've found that there's A Lot less in the phyllodes during flowering of floribunda, obtusifolia and good longifolia types.
Also, Bufotenine during seeding is interesting too. I wonder if Anadenanthera species bark chemistry and variation has ever been studied?
Nen, didn't you mention you were going to say something about Nepal soon?
I dug up an interesting quote that relates to your discussion of 'Khadira' and Acacia, on page 5.
Quote:
There are other forms of the deity who closely resemble Āryā Tārā but who, in addition to the above attributes, carry a second utpala lotus in the right hand. One of these is Khadiravanī Tārā or “Tārā of the acacia grove” and her distinguishing feature is that she is invariably accompanied by her attendant goddesses, Aśokakāntā-Maricī and Ekajatā.

This name, Khadiravanī, is rather mysterious, though. In India, the acacia tree is sacred to Tārā, in Mesopotamia, Ishtar was worshiped in acacia groves. When I asked a learned Tibetan lama why the khadira tree is associated with Tārā, he told me that it is because these trees grow in her paradise.
It's from http://secretdrugs.net/tara/, but they want you to pay to read the whole blurb! I think Nen's already got most of this info ready to go, if he ever gets that book finished! (tease)
Attached: 2 Tibetan Khadira Tara paintings and a photo of mixed riverine forest with the major tree species Acacia catechu (Khadira) in Nepal. And one I thought Nen might like.

And amazing photo above Seldom! Smile I'm still trying to work out how it was done. The Force I guess Nen would say.
phyllode attached the following image(s):
khadiravani_tara_sm-1.jpg (251kb) downloaded 333 time(s).
khadira tara 2.jpg (108kb) downloaded 332 time(s).
A. catechu forest, Nepal.jpg (1,151kb) downloaded 330 time(s).
Acacia in the Mist, Kenya.jpg (9kb) downloaded 333 time(s).
 
Borris
#833 Posted : 11/11/2012 6:25:05 AM

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Spice Sailor wrote:
Salutations Nexians.
It has been many posts since it was mentioned (page 26) but I have posted a number photos showing the sometimes very confusing similarities in features of Acacia's maidenii and melanoxylon. Details of images in order at the end, sorry some are very blurry and not great.

Quote:

Do you have experience with extracting Maidenii?



Brickie forgot you asked this a while back. I have had many different experiences with Maidenii identification and extractions and I feel this information may be useful and also is more evidence to the theory that Maidenii has a number of sub types and some have a good alkaloid profile and some do not.

Began with looking at/comparing with ID books what i thought were maidenii's in september. (none were in flower but pods were usually present, and i noted subtle differences between some). All of them fitted the ID desriptions without the presence of flowers though.

I didn't look at the trees again until late april the following year and noticed that some of the presumed Maidenii's were in flower (or about to) and some were not. The ones that were in flower all had the same yellowy/creamy "spike" flowers. Again I noticed that even though they had same flowers the phyllodes shape and colour changed from tree to tree and area to area. A few months later in the year while collecting Maidenii seeds I noticed the other look - a - like Maidenii's had flowers on them quite different to the "spike one". While the pods seemed the exact same to me as Maidenii's the flowers didn't lie and I discovered it was Melanoxylon.

The following year during flowering (to be sure of ID) the branch bark of a Maidenii (500g) was A/B extracted. Yielded a little bit of oily goo that I did not bio assy. Later in the year (Aug) it was attempted again (from the same tree) and had a similar result to the first experiment, the tiny bit was bio assy'd with negative results.

A month later I tried another Maidenii branch from a tree that had different phyllodes to the first one. Didn't expect much but was surprised to get approx 2 - 3 grams of oily goo this time that when smoked introduced me to interstellar travel. *Note the oil extracted was very crude and I soaked it up with tobacco to sample*

Another extraction from a maidenii in late Feb the next year (from a new location), that looked different again to others tested, yielded a tiny amount of oil similar to the first extraction. The one tree that had the yield similar to that reported by the CSIRO had phyllodes with specific phyllode characteristics.

Again sorry the photos are not the best. some are ok

Photo 1 and 2: are of separate trees that are examples of the phyllodes of the original high yielding sub type tested. Not the actual tree but shares same phyllode characteristics)
Photo 3: One of the very low / no result sub types
Photo 4: Another low / no
Photo 5: One I have yet to test, on the list for when the rain resides
Photo 6: One of the melanoxylon forms
Photo 7: Another melanoxylon form
Photo 8: And just cause it has awesome colours/patterns (sorry I know the thread is huge), a bug i found and photographed on what I believe is Acacia penninervis.



I suggest the seed to identify the two (see attached pic)...

Right: Maidenii
Left : Melanoxylon (very early thus green)

NOTICE that maidenii root is bundled on one side.
NOTICE that Melanoxylon root encircles the seed - often red / pink.

Also, when not flowering, examining the "lenticellular branchlets" can be misleading as I have seen melanoxylon with this genetic pattern right to the branchlet tips and certainly on the thicker branches. It's still a good indicator however to rule out other species Smile


Borris attached the following image(s):
seed.JPG (25kb) downloaded 310 time(s).
 
nen888
#834 Posted : 11/11/2012 7:16:22 AM
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^..yeah great Borris, good idea! Smile..that is a good separator..it's worth noting that some southern forms of A. melanoxylon have pink almost red arils, and can incidentally be confused with A. cyclops..
.

..i couldn't even manage a day off the net! ok..will power after this..
before i deal with analysis of phyllode..^ haha
..inspired by acacian's (and also earlier Seldom's) Initiatives in acacia research and the sharing of knowledge for the collective knowledge and good.., awaiting your 'purer-essence' tek in the Acacia Extraction Workspace, i have now finally added to the OP - The Phyllode Tek: experiment One..thank you for your input guys..i know a lot of nexians worldwide appreciate your posts..and we could do with more active posting members in general at the Nexus..come-on..this is Interactive (albeit with a slight delaySmile)


now..phyllode..Ta (meaning 'thanks'Pleased ! and ra!
..i particularly enjoyed the acacia in the mists pic too..i have done research over the years into Tibetan sacred plants and ceremony, which is course the kind of thing it would be good to expand on in a different format to the thread..but i'll say one thing, which i was going to save for elsewhere..many years i ago had the honour of talking with a tibetan buddhist rinpoche..he reminded me of a very friendly martial-arts instructor..i described many dmt experiences to him, my own and others..when i had concluded he said:

"These are the realms of the Lesser Light..the elf and fairy haunted landscapes and lower hells of the bardos..one can learn from them..but it is not experiencing the Clear Light of the void, the true nature of reality…"

..but, yeah they're really into their Tara..the green one especially!

@


below, A. maidenii with lots of alkaloids (lower pic), comparing phyllodes with and showing the seed and aril of the victorian/SA sub-type of A. melanoxylon..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
melanoxylon victoria.jpg (29kb) downloaded 303 time(s).
maidenii nsw.jpg (16kb) downloaded 302 time(s).
 
acacian
#835 Posted : 11/11/2012 7:58:41 AM

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nen888 wrote:
^..yeah great Borris, good idea! Smile..that is a good separator..it's worth noting that some southern forms of A. melanoxylon have pink almost red arils, and can incidentally be confused with A. cyclops..
.

..i couldn't even manage a day off the net! ok..will power after this..
before i deal with analysis of phyllode..^ haha
..inspired by acacian's (and also earlier Seldom's) Initiatives in acacia research and the sharing of knowledge for the collective knowledge and good.., awaiting your 'purer-essence' tek in the Acacia Extraction Workspace, i have now finally added to the OP - The Phyllode Tek: experiment One..thank you for your input guys..i know a lot of nexians worldwide appreciate your posts..and we could do with more active posting members in general at the Nexus..come-on..this is Interactive (albeit with a slight delaySmile)
now..phyllode..Ta (meaning 'thanks'Pleased ! and ra!
[/u]..


what can i say.. I knew you'd be back soon enough ....think your fighting a lost battle there nen Razz well... i finished today with the extraction. i ended up salting the alkaloids out of the xylene and then doing a dry tek and extracting again with acetone... small yield it seems. i have a feeling i lost quite a bit of product somewhere along the way ... definitely doesn't look like the usual 1% yield i've been getting. i deifnitely exhausted the bark of all its alkaloids too as i did a final boil to see if there was anything left.. negative. the metho is definitely good for pulling alkaloids efficiently especially if shaken.. anyways I was left with a reddish brown toffee...hopefully theres some other alkaloids than dmt in there!

what do you think of this idea for a tek nen? It addresses both the heat and acid factors of extracting from acacia.. (a small amount of vinegar is applied for the first soak to help break the cell walls but after that just ethanol is used) ...which i know you mentioned both can degrade alkaloids with long exposure. it incorporates a predefatt idea that SKA mentioned the other day but experimenting is in order...i will be trying this method of defatt on my next extraction to compare with defatting the the liquid itself. it involves no heating at all of plant material, hopefully preserving any alkaloids which don't cope with boiling.

1.grind dry plant material. add to large glass bottle
2. add a good amount of non polar solvent.. anyone know which would be best for pulling fats/oils? shake the hell out of it ... there wont be emulsion will there because there's no polar liquid for it to get trapped in?
3. remove solvent from bark.. wring the bark in a cloth to get rid of any excess solvent and put back in glass bottle. then add 400ml ethanol. shake well and let sit for half an hr periodically shaking again.. pour off liquid and repeat three times, combine liquids and reduce on very low heat
4. add 10g lye
5. pull with np solvent and evaporate

if one only has limited solvent it would be recomended to defatt the liquid rather than the ground plant material itself... still need to see how effective the predefatt is too
 
nen888
#836 Posted : 11/11/2012 8:06:49 AM
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^..it is possible to not efficiently extract the alks at certain pHs..you could raise or lower the pH slightly and try extracting again..also, being not the most efficient of NP solvents, naphtha may need more swirling, time and almost certainly 'pulls' to get it all out..if it's in there experiment 1 should get 90% of it..but i suspect naphtha may need slight 'over-basifying' to pull more..i'm not an expert on that one..
..as for that suggested tek..sounds interesting..and simple..look forward to hearing more..Smile
now..i really am going to unplug the slab and seek retinal rest in the netherworlds and in nature..Cool
 
nen888
#837 Posted : 11/11/2012 8:25:16 AM
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^..ps. a lower ethanol mix may suit phyllodes better, particularly fresh..but remember the plants themselves change with the weather..
now, lets continue this discussion in the extraction workspace..lots of room and great company..Smile
and as for the so-called 'nen-method'..well, the secret's in finding, for the right time, a certain ratio..
..listen to the trees, and
stay well!
..................................................................................................................................................................................



here is a list of
Betacarboline Alkaloids known so far from Acacias
it is not completed yet..in most cases the betacarbolines are in conjuction with tryptamines, varying from trace to large amounts..sometimes mainly in in phyllode and only trace in bark..refs in thread..also there are several species for which betacarbolines are known but not precisely identified..
ß-carbolines fluoresce green>blue under ultraviolet light..

Harman (synon. Harmane) - A. acuminata (broad phyllode), A. burkitti phyllode, A. complanata, A. floribunda phyllode, A. mucronata, A. neurophylla phyllode, A.nilotica leaf, A.obtusifolia phyllode.
(also in numerous Passiflora sp and tobacco smoke).

Norharman - A. neurophylla phyllode .

Tetrahydroharman - A. acuminata (broad phyllode), A. baileyana leaf.

N-methyl-tetrathydroharman - A. acuminata (broad phyllode), A. complanata.

Harmine - A. mucronata var. longifolia, A. obtusifolia sub var.(trace)(also in b.caapi/p.harmala)

Leptocladine (2,3,4,9-Tetrahydro-1,2-dimethyl-1H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole) - A.
obtusifolia bark (also in Hammada leptoclada (Amaranthaceae))

Methyl-tetrahydro-betacarboline (MTHBC) - A. confusa stems, A. mucronata, A. obtusifolia.

2-Methyl-tatraydrobetacarboline (2MTHBC) - A. confusa stems, A. maidenii, A. obtusifolia .

1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline - A. acuminata phyllode, A. maidenii phyllode, A. obtusifolia bark, A. simplex bark. (also in P. viridis & Phalaris sp)


,,but, of course, this is a very new area of research..98% unmapped..

.
 
Borris
#838 Posted : 11/11/2012 11:25:17 AM

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Further to my last ID post..

Since the majority of QLD has such a poor variety of sources, of which includes [A. Maidenii],
I wanted to propose [Acacia Aulacocarpa] as a possible candidate.
It's prolific on the coastline and around major populations.

I don't see much discussion about it? and there is some form of result here:
Acacia Aulacocarpa(1) lf + +

Feel free to shoot me down.
Good to see Cincinnata, Leiocalyx being interviewed and hope their credentials are in order.

Rolling eyes
-Peace-

 
nen888
#839 Posted : 11/11/2012 11:53:36 PM
member for the trees

Acacia expert | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingExtraordinary knowledge | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingSenior Member | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, Counselling

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^..lured out for clarity's (rather than sanity'sSmile) sake..

..the information in that thread is taken from a more comprehensive list which i attached on
p.15: CSIRO Australian Alkaloid Screening Results 1965-1990..the method outlined on p.42 for the testing of A. cincinata is using the same CSIRO methodology..in the 1 case of A. aulococarpa the reference is: Tindale, M.D. 1980. Notes on Australian Taxa of Acacia No. 7. Telopea 2(1), 113.. i know of no tests to determine what class of alkaloid was present, however the cineol-like volatile oil smell of the pods suggests it's not like many other acacias in it's section..

as for Acacia maidenii in Qld..well, that's where 2 of the 4 known high-tryptamine types grow..!
on p.23 i commented (with additions):
Quote:
.one more note...on A. obusifolia, and it's oft reported accidental discovery due to being mis-identified as A. maidenii..the fourth photo.. is the strain of maidenii first [bioassayed]..after several years of successful use ['E'] took 'Mulga' to the site in question in 1996..at the time A. obtusifolia was the dominant plant and flowering at the time, leading Mulga to rapidly conclude and announce it was ob..but both species were at the site..this is how the obtusifolia x maidenii reported on p.12 was discovered..'E' maintains that the original tree from 1992 was A. maidenii, and then what was thought to be a different variety of it (actually obtusifolia) was utilized 1993-5..it was in feeling that there was something different about it that 'E' presented samples to Mulga..when Mulga tested maidenii elsewhere he got a negative result [but later i returned to this test site, the tree was flowering, and concluded that Mulga had mis-IDd what was in fact A. melanoxylon..he had assumed his ID based on location records], hence obtusifolia became the first species to be hyped, leading to it's unfortunate exploitation..there was even an internet myth once that it was a 'weed'..ridiculous..it is not that common, and mainly preserved in reserved pristine environments..

on p.24
Quote:
..without being any more specific, the CSIRO high % A. maidenii was collected within 100km of the NSW/Qld. border..in it's natural range, no obtusifolia around, only melanoxylon..
really i think there are 2 or 3 sub-species of maidenii, and at least 2, probably 3, of obtusifolia..

and in your Spice Sailor quote above, he did say:
Quote:
A month later I tried another Maidenii branch from a tree that had different phyllodes to the first one. Didn't expect much but was surprised to get approx 2 - 3 grams of oily goo this time that when smoked introduced me to interstellar travel. *Note the oil extracted was very crude and I soaked it up with tobacco to sample*

..the mulga mis-ID was also discussed in this post on p.28

below is a photo of an A. maidenii from NSW which was tested and contained 0.6-0.7% DMT/NMT..it is same as photo here on p.22..note the colour of the flowers..not all maideniis are as white..at the time of testing the phyllodes had redder tips, and it was not flowering..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Acacia maidenii typeform.jpg (102kb) downloaded 245 time(s).
 
acacian
#840 Posted : 11/12/2012 12:05:45 AM

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thanks for the maideninfo nen Smile In a month I'll be up in NSW hoping to get some photos of as many differen't genetic variants as possible.. and hopefully test some if i get the time. there was a form of what I assume was maidenii back in my hometown which had somewhat shorter phyllodes than most maidenii I've seen... do you know anything of these?
so the active maidenii has fairly long phyllodes that twist off in differen't directions a bit like obtusifolia? beautiful tree...
 
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