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Trying to improve Acacia information Options
 
Borris
#741 Posted : 10/17/2012 1:03:24 AM

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Thanks endlessness,

Other than home brew, Methylated spirits is the only easily available high ethanol liquid hence my curiosity.

for the sake of clarity, Diggers brand Methylated Spirits MSDS states..

Quote:
0.1% Denaturants may be one or more of the following:
- Methyl isobutyl ketone,
- fluorescein,
- diethyl phthalate,
- tertiary butyl alcohol,
- brucine sulphate
- denatonium benzoate.

Health Hazard Information
Acute: Ingestion: Irritating. May cause coughing, headache, dullness, abdominal spasm and diarrhoea.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
nen888
#742 Posted : 10/17/2012 3:50:47 AM
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..a forest of chemistry to see the trees..!Smile

thanks for that Borris, and good to see you back endlessness..

..adding a little water makes the ethanol not flammable, and less likely to migrate to an organic solvent..

all the compounds in that brand of methylated spirits appear to be volatile (evaporate to nothing)
hence will not be in any evaporated end result..as for migrating to the basic Non Polar layer, the main possible suspect would be Brucine (dimethylstrychnine), but experiments a decade ago by friends showed that it doesn't (probably due to differing kPa, for the chemists) .. it is not as poisonous as strychnine..why are these these things added? i once phoned Diggers customer feedback years ago to ask..the embarrassed woman on the other end of the line said: "To stop the aborigines from drinking it." i said "But doesn't that make it more poisonous?" (it still had 1-2% methanol back then) ..she said: "Yes, i guess it does."
!!??
 
Borris
#743 Posted : 10/17/2012 10:44:07 AM

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My observations re [mixing phyllodes and ethanol]
NOTE: does NOT apply to bark.

An instant thick green solution is formed.
This solution STAINS: EVERYTHING it touches Stop (plastic, glass, tile, solvent, me!)
It becomes hard to manage and personally will now avoid this when dealing with phyllodes.

[Ethanol solvent] + [strong pigment] = worth thinking about when evaluating an approach.

Smile
 
endlessness
#744 Posted : 10/17/2012 8:45:51 PM

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Borris wrote:
Thanks endlessness,

Other than home brew, Methylated spirits is the only easily available high ethanol liquid hence my curiosity.

for the sake of clarity, Diggers brand Methylated Spirits MSDS states..

Quote:
0.1% Denaturants may be one or more of the following:
- Methyl isobutyl ketone,
- fluorescein,
- diethyl phthalate,
- tertiary butyl alcohol,
- brucine sulphate
- denatonium benzoate.

Health Hazard Information
Acute: Ingestion: Irritating. May cause coughing, headache, dullness, abdominal spasm and diarrhoea.



I would NOT use that. Way too many unknowns in the equation. First of all, they give no guarantees if there arent other products not listed, they just say it may be one or many of those. The alcohols/solvents may evaporate, but the rest wont. Maybe some of those can be washed out with cold dry acetone if you make your alkaloids in salt form (like fumarates), but maybe not, or I dont know if any of them would breakdown in extraction conditions forming other unknown compounds, etc..

Better find something else.
 
Borris
#745 Posted : 10/18/2012 3:19:32 PM

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0.1% Denaturants in 1L bottle = 1 ml of possible [Brucine Sulphate]

I dont know the density of this substance to translate it into possible weight however basic research on Brucine (doesnt mention sulphate?) Lethal dose is estimated as low as 30 mg.

To make it worse its described as a white powdery crystalline bitter alkaloid Neutral

I am wondering if anyone has used off the shelf methylated spirits and NOT died?

I am walking away from this solvent and the produce quickly.
 
nen888
#746 Posted : 10/20/2012 7:14:37 AM
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^..while i agree with endlessness that it's best to avoid that product, and i use 99% pure ethanol, i do know it has been used by others in such a context without any negative consequences..of course, any form of oral ingestion is another matter..
 
zombicyckel
#747 Posted : 10/20/2012 8:27:00 PM

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Ive found what I suspect is an acacia in sweden, are there any acacia that grows large chilliformed red flowerbuds, that is full with seeds or nuts inside?
 
acacian
#748 Posted : 10/21/2012 12:21:46 AM

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thanks for the suggestions nen. I will have to give the oxycedrus another go in the near future.. for now though my fingers need some recovery time from those spikes. I must say xylene can be quite frustrating to work with. it evaporates pretty much at the rate of water!

Doing an extract on the twig and stem from a very special fallen tree found at mt buffalo at the moment. seems to be very good results. Because the bark on the stems was so dry it was quite difficult to peel off so I just chucked em in a large pot and boiled for many hours. As time went by I pulled the twigs/stems out and peeled the bark off them and discarded the wood (which I plan to try and make lye from)... occasionally i would pour the water off and pour more in, until finally combining the solutions and reducing to 500ml (the water I used for this was collected from the waterfalls at mt buffalo.. my intention was to keep the plant spirit as strong as possible).. which took a long time!
I must say if you want to get intimate with your plant these 2 day brews in giant pots are a great way of pouring your energy and intention into the extract. was beautiful listening to the brew sing to me. I poured myself spiritually like never before into this extract so I am hoping to have some really special experiences... gorgeous snow flakes awaiting! crystallised via evap this time rather than freeze precipitation. way bigger crystals than usual.

also i just thought i'd add -because i found this quite intriguing and haven't been able to find any info thus far-there was a mysterious vine that was wrapping around some of the acacia obiquinerva and phlebophylla lower down the mountain. i didn't see it growing in the phlebophylla stands higher up.. though it did cross my mind whether the vine could be telling us something, and whether it may be an orally activating counterpart of some sort. i would like to test a small amount of it, though I need to find out how much of it actually grows there first as I don't want to do any damage. do you think 50-100g would be enough to find out?

Oh and just did an extract on 100g acacia confusa bark (trunk i think?) which I was gifted at a conference... seems also to be very good results so far. yield unknown as i have not scraped it up. it has taken days to crystalise so I am thinking there coud be a decent amount of nmt in there as i remember you saying it takes a while. The crystals were clear and star/needle-like. I did another pull and added that on top hoping it would build on the crystals but they dissolved again so il proly have to wait another 3 or 4 days. its definitely active as I tested a very small amount. tasted mainly of dmt, though I'm convinced theres another alkaloid in there (presumably nmt) because of the way it crystallises

also.. i'm interested in finding a completely organic way of extraction. I was told that lye can be made by running water through wood ash. I am interested in making some lye out of the wood from tree that I extract from (obviously so long as I have access to a dead one), so that it literally extracts itself. If i could only figure out how to make a solvent.. hmmmm. this is a goal of mine for the future..to extract from a tree out of its own materials. i feel there would definitely be a spiritual reward in extracting like this. If all goes well with the woodash I might write up a tek so that people can go the more organic route of basification rather than buying commercial caustic soda, as well as form a stronger bond with the plant. This would mean no worrying about buying a watched chemical.

 
nen888
#749 Posted : 10/23/2012 1:39:56 PM
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acacian wrote:
Quote:
it has taken days to crystalise so I am thinking there coud be a decent amount of nmt in there as i remember you saying it takes a while. The crystals were clear and star/needle-like.
..yeah, sounds like NMT/DMT crystal-matrix [see entheogenic effects of NMT]
..nmt smells like dmt too, btw..tends to become darker over time..

and full kudos to your spiritual and empathic way acacian..i salute you..

..coming soon..the World Wide Guide to an entheoAcacia near you..!
.

ps. endlessness has crystalized dmt from water...
.
 
acacian
#750 Posted : 10/23/2012 2:34:07 PM

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thanks nen, likewise Smile
thats awesome! can't wait.. are you the author of such book?
 
Major Tom
#751 Posted : 10/23/2012 4:46:30 PM
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Greetings , I have really enjoyed following this thread - regretting that I have little to contribute . Having said that , I concur that using organic solvents to extract phyllodes [ ime ] results in a disastrous mess . I'm suspecting that chlorophyll and other junk are also extracted . Nevertheless , alcohols seem to be really good for barks . . The purpose of my post is to advise I have had improved results [ with bark ] using the " Extreme Condition " tek [ Trout's Notes ; SST ; p 228 ] . Yields and purity seem to be enhanced by using a slight variation of this tek : [ macerating in alcohol at around ph 1 for 24 - 48 hours + , then soxhleting the filtered marc ; evaporate alcohol ; dissolve residue in diluted HCL ; de - fat with xylene x 2 ; A / B x 2 ; pull withxylene x 2 ; wash xylene wiyh saturated bi-carb water, then wash with water ; evaporate the xylene ; dissolve in minimum qty hot Shellite [ naptha ] ; and Shellite freeze . ] Astonishing yields of snow white xtals . [ The only variation to the published tek is is the soxhlet , to minimize the volume of alcohol used ] . I suspect that it is the tek , not the material used , improving my end results . . Finally , I have been trying to find info re : sublimation as a final purification , but unable to locate any factual data . Any ideas ?
 
Major Tom
#752 Posted : 10/24/2012 2:19:25 AM
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zombicyckel wrote:
Ive found what I suspect is an acacia in sweden, are there any acacia that grows large chilliformed red flowerbuds, that is full with seeds or nuts inside?

To my knowledge no [ Oz ] acacias have red flowers , only variations of yellow - white colouration . [ PM me if you would like some seeds , or info re a source for Australian plant seeds . ]
 
nen888
#753 Posted : 10/24/2012 10:16:23 AM
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..thank you for that MajorTom..you Are Ground Control..Smile ..still to read your previous post properly..

you are right about Australian (or any) acacias having either yellow or white flowers..interestingly, there is ONE exception, an individual of a Victorian species (of which the flowers are usually golden yellow) which had red flowers..the individual tree died a few years ago (of old age) but cuttings were successfully propagated by the Vic. Botanical Gardens..it is due to be released into horticulture soon i believe..

so, you never now what you may find..maybe a single tree with an alkaloid unknown elsewhere (and far beyond your wildest dreams..Smile)

.

ps.acacian..the NMT book..yeah, that's coming (with a little help from Snu Voogelbreinder i hope) , but first..the 'spiritual dimension'..ha, ha..

@
 
Major Tom
#754 Posted : 10/24/2012 12:48:13 PM
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A wattle with RED flowers ??? Far out !! I'll have to track down a specimen when they're released .... Hoping it is a Juliflorae type - my favourites . Love
 
Major Tom
#755 Posted : 10/24/2012 1:23:33 PM
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[quote=acacian]wow is that plant an absolute misswent to the grampians today and pruned a few branches off the oxycedrus... ion and pain to harvest... got scratches all over me and several splinters in my fingers.
Hi Acacian - spare a thought for the poor folk harvesting MHRB . For many it is their only source of income .
 
acacian
#756 Posted : 10/24/2012 2:05:48 PM

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Major Tom wrote:
zombicyckel wrote:
Ive found what I suspect is an acacia in sweden, are there any acacia that grows large chilliformed red flowerbuds, that is full with seeds or nuts inside?

To my knowledge no [ Oz ] acacias have red flowers , only variations of yellow - white colouration . [ PM me if you would like some seeds , or info re a source for Australian plant seeds . ]


just found one the other day after talking to zombie Smile ... acacia leprosa or "scarlet blaze" mmmmm doesn't that sound smooth n tasty.. and kinda sexy too Wut?

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._'Scarlet_Blaze'
 
acacian
#757 Posted : 10/24/2012 2:06:55 PM

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oh and consider the thought spared, major Smile
 
zombicyckel
#758 Posted : 10/24/2012 2:59:35 PM

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Major Tom wrote:
zombicyckel wrote:
Ive found what I suspect is an acacia in sweden, are there any acacia that grows large chilliformed red flowerbuds, that is full with seeds or nuts inside?

To my knowledge no [ Oz ] acacias have red flowers , only variations of yellow - white colouration . [ PM me if you would like some seeds , or info re a source for Australian plant seeds . ]




Ahh, a shame. Looks really like an acacia, gotta take a pic someday Smile Totally love the offer, but im going to buy some Acacia acum in the near future. Hope all goes well Smile thanks ofr the offer
 
Major Tom
#759 Posted : 10/24/2012 3:08:46 PM
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Thank you indeed Acacian for that most intereting link - I am learning so much from this thread . It must be quite spectacular when in full bloom . Nature continually facinates and amazes me ... Thumbs up
 
zombicyckel
#760 Posted : 10/24/2012 3:45:19 PM

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acacian wrote:
Major Tom wrote:
[quote=zombicyckel]Ive found what I suspect is an acacia in sweden, are there any acacia that grows large chilliformed red flowerbuds, that is full with seeds or nuts inside?

To my knowledge no [ Oz ] acacias have red flowers , only variations of yellow - white colouration . [ PM me if you would like some seeds , or info re a source for Australian plant seeds . ]


just found one the other day after talking to zombie Smile ... acacia leprosa or "scarlet blaze" mmmmm doesn't that sound smooth n tasty.. and kinda sexy too Wut?

http://en.wikipedia.org/...'Scarlet_Blaze'[/quote]


Indeed that one looks very goood Very happy It wasnt that one though, gotta take a pic of the leafs and the flower with the seeds Smile Gotta a feeling its not gonna be acacia, but maybe
 
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