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Trying to improve Acacia information Options
 
Verruckter
#241 Posted : 1/11/2012 2:40:49 AM

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Nen, ive read through most of the thread since your last discussion of Leucaena‑leucocephala somewhere around post 149. I was wondering if you were able to find anything about this particular specimen, as far as any alkaloids of interest? I know we were talking on my other thread, but the topic direction ended up going towards the mesquite direction due to the extraction i had issues with.
I do have a plethora of Leucaena‑leucocephala on my property as well and wanted to try to gain some knowledge about it before i potentially wasted my time.
TIA!
 

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nen888
#242 Posted : 1/11/2012 3:34:51 AM
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..Leucaena leucocephala is medicinally interesting, but probably not one for home enthusiasts..as i said back in post 149 it contains the alkaloid Mimosine [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimosine] which is still of unclear activity and toxicity..Mimosine was first found in Mimosa pudica ('sensitive plant'Pleased which is reported by Voogelbreinder 2009 to have psychoactive effects..
the seeds contain leucenol, a probable toxin..Chung-Yi Chen & Yau-Der Wang [2010] found four steroids, 5α,8α-epidioxy-(24ξ)-ergosta-6,22-dien-3β-ol (1), β-sitosterol (2), β-sitostenone (3), and stigmastenone (4), along with 10 unknown compounds were isolated from the whole plants..i should also have mentioned in post 149 that it also occurs in India and a few other parts of asia..
..interestingly the whole alkaloidal extracts of L. leucocephala
Quote:
exhibited antimutagenic activities at 0.5 mg/20 g mouse. The CS- and ES-soluble alkaloidal extracts reduced the number of micronucleated polychromatic erythrocytes induced by tetracycline, a known mutagen, by 67.0% and 71.2%, respectively. Preliminary pharmacological screening showed that both extracts caused a relative depression in the central nervous system as evidenced by a decrease in respiratory rate and depth and a decrease in motor activity.


..the findings of harmala alkaloids in a few mesquites, as well their ethnomedical history, make them interesting for entheogen research, however a few contain very biologically unknown alkaloids..
 
nen888
#243 Posted : 1/11/2012 6:48:44 AM
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..endlessness' tests showing almost pure dmt with a little 2MeTHBC in A. obtusifolia x maidenii (cultivar) indicate that this is a highly desirable hybrid to grow..it is already being grown in some places as obtusifolia..the yellow flowers and often acuminate (pointed) leaves are the indicators..

and blessed be the sacred twig of obtusifolia, being almost entirely dmt while the trunk bark and leaves have nmt (& maybe something else) , at least in this individual tree..

it should be noted, though, that any particular published test of contents of a plant is usually based on what one (or a few) plants were doing at a particular time, and are not an absolute indicator of what the species contains..larger numbers of repeated findings of the same content would give high statistical likely hood of a plant containing a substance(s) ..statistically, so far, A. obtusifolia x maidenii leans towards mainly dmt, whereas obtusifolia has about half the time had nmt as the major alkaloid..with Acacia acuminata, there are more underground tests reporting mainly dmt, but the interesting finding by endlessness of tetrahydroharman as the major alkaloid (along with dmt & tryptamine) opens up a whole world of interesting possibilities..

thank you to the trees..
.
 
cheif hobo stank
#244 Posted : 1/11/2012 6:58:24 AM
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Very intersting stuff. what is the origin of the obtusifolia x maidenii, is it an intentional cross or assumed hybrid? Would love to see some pics of the inflorescence and phyllodes. Have noticed some obtusifolia around the north coast area to have very acute phyllodes.
 
nen888
#245 Posted : 1/11/2012 7:09:09 AM
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..my A. obtusifolia x maidenii was natural from seed collected in southern nsw, and also grown a second generation..the original location had both species growing..the photo of it i posted (p.12) is grown in Europe, i don't know where the seed is from..straight obtusifolia in n.e.nsw is it's own (not so common) sub-variety..the phyllodes can be acute, but the flowers are usually cream..it has been tested once by Mulga and found to be mainly DMT, but a lower percentage (around 0.2% in bark) ..what is probably going on is a multi-species 'complex' involving 3-6 of these closely related acacias exchanging material and leading to a lot of individual variation..a very intense 'complex' i've been researching a few years is the Acacia concurrens complex, in which up to a dozen very closely related species interbreed and confuse botanists..A. aneura ('mulga'Pleased is an even bigger and hazier 'complex'..
 
Verruckter
#246 Posted : 1/11/2012 7:20:16 AM

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nen888 wrote:
i should also have mentioned in post 149 that it also occurs in India and a few other parts of asia..

hmmm... i guess i shouldn't have tried identifying the plant myself then, possible mis-identification... again! LOL There are just so many different species that look almost identical!! without years of experience and a VERY trained eye, its nearly impossible to determine what is what. Even when i search google with specific plant names, it appears that most of the time they just pull up the same pics of the same plants, whether or not it is in fact the right plant! This is just another reason im going to be start a botany class, i eventually want to get into entheobotany, but I've got to learn to crawl before i can walk!
 
nen888
#247 Posted : 1/11/2012 7:44:52 AM
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..i meant it's introduced to asia..is native central america and naturalized in hawaii..i think your ID was good!
yeah, botanical terms are very confusing..but knowing one plant from another by eye just takes motivation and practice..good luck with the botany studies..
 
nen888
#248 Posted : 1/12/2012 5:54:13 AM
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..for our Hawaiian Nexians, check this link..Plants of Hawaii: acacia
it lists the following Acacia species as recorded in hawaii: (the * = native, most are australian migrants)

Acacia aneura - Mulga acacia
Acacia aulacocarpa - Hickory wattle, brown salwood
Acacia auriculiformis - Earpod wattle
Acacia confusa - Formosa koa
Acacia farnesiana - Klu
Acacia koa - Koa *
Acacia koaia - Koaia, dwarf koa *
Acacia mangium - Mangium wattle
Acacia mearnsii - Black wattle
Acacia melanoxylon - Australian blackwood
Acacia podalyriifolia - Queensland silver wattle
Acacia retinodes - Water wattle
Acacia sp. - Unknown acacia

..there are some very good tryptamine candidates there..

below are (all in Maui) A. retinodes, A. mearnsii, A. confusa, A. koaia leaf (with grazing Koa bugs Coleotichus blackburniae) & A. koaia tree...
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Acacia retinodes - Maui.jpg (193kb) downloaded 801 time(s).
Acacia mearnsii - Maui.jpg (170kb) downloaded 800 time(s).
Acacia confusa - Maui.jpg (186kb) downloaded 800 time(s).
Acacia koaia with koa bug - Maui.jpg (114kb) downloaded 795 time(s).
Acacia koaia - Maui.jpg (206kb) downloaded 800 time(s).
 
nen888
#249 Posted : 1/12/2012 6:44:55 AM
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..USAcacias really need more chemical investigation (see p.9 for current very limited knowledge, some phenethylamines and a little dmt)
one of the more widely distributed is Acacia greggii ('catclaw acacia'Pleased, with several varieties and natural hybrids with A. berlandieri..
it is found in southern California, Nevada, Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Texas..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
catclaw acacia.jpg (133kb) downloaded 785 time(s).
catclaw_pods.jpg (166kb) downloaded 778 time(s).
 
Verruckter
#250 Posted : 1/12/2012 9:17:54 PM

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Nen,
Your vast knowledge and information blow my mind!! this thread has become the focus of 50% of my day! Im continuously reading, researching, and nature walking!

I clearly have all the keys i should need, so now its time to apply this info first hand! hopefully i may be able to contribute to this thread in more than an inquisitive way!!! Very happy

Since you have been of great assistance to me, as well as others, I will try to keep you posted on my findings, and hopefully bring some new information from my travels, and hopeful discoveries!
 
cheeser
#251 Posted : 1/13/2012 3:43:19 PM
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Very Interesting thread, I'd like to thank everyone that has contributed.

Something that I'm curious about that hasn't really came up in discussion is wood alkaloids content. The general consensus of the community is that bark should be ideally obtained from dead or fallen branches. If none are apparent and alive plants must be tampered with then removing bark from branches is less damaging than from the trunk.

I believe nen888 said a few pages back that there is no actives in the wood, was this speculation or does anybody know of literature or experiments people have performed themselves directly on wood.

If peoples put entire branches and twigs through mulchers, some wood is included in the extraction. This could potentially add inaccuracies to yields. If the wood has no alkaloids and is treated as "bark" in initial weights then the actual bark yield would be considerably higher. When people post yields, this information should be included.

Traces of 5MeO-DMT has been found in maidenii wood (October 1995). Could nn also exist and there's just a lack of research? My botanical knowledge suggests that alkaloids would be in greatest concentration in the bark but it may also be significant in outer layers of wood. It could even be that the bark is a alkaloid source, whereas the wood a sink.

If it turns out that wood has significant concentrations of alkaloids, we shouldn't waste it. Extract everything we can out of it so we don't have to damage as many plants.
 
cheeser
#252 Posted : 1/13/2012 3:59:58 PM
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Oh and does anybody have any ideas on the ID of these phyllodes could be?
They were collected from east Gippslands about a week ago. No visible flowers or fruits. Sorry I don't have the branches attached, just the phyllodes.

Help is greatly appreciated.

http://imageshack.us/pho.../808/20120113185824.jpg/
 
nen888
#253 Posted : 1/14/2012 6:32:11 AM
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..glad you inspired Verruckter, thanks for keeping us up to date with your discoveries..Smile

cheeser wrote:
Quote:
Traces of 5MeO-DMT has been found in maidenii wood (October 1995). Could nn also exist and there's just a lack of research? My botanical knowledge suggests that alkaloids would be in greatest concentration in the bark but it may also be significant in outer layers of wood. It could even be that the bark is a alkaloid source, whereas the wood a sink.
..this an interesting and good point, thanks cheeser..the idea is based more on 'folklore', and other plants, than actual experiment that alkaloids are not in the wood..certainly flavonoids are known from the heartwood of a number of acacias including maidenii..BTW, what is your source of the 5meo in maidenii info? ..very interesting..do you know in what amounts..?

..it should be noted that maidenii at times can contain mainly DMT in the outer bark..even the lower yielding strains have 0.1-0.2% DMT/NMT in the branch bark with thorough extraction..some strains have up to 0.7% alkaloid (mainly DMT) in the phyllodes..

as for the photo, it's hard without flower or pod..could be an obtusifolia X maidenii, obtusifolia var. or A. dallichana..

Acacia maidenii, higher yielding forms have thicker, duller phylloodes like top pic and see in particular p25#487, lower yielding have broader, darker, shinier phyllodes (but maybe the alkaloids have gone to the wood?) ..twisted/coiled narrow pods are the defining characteristic of A. maidenii..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
A. maidenii.jpg (47kb) downloaded 753 time(s).
A. maidenii flowers.jpg (181kb) downloaded 746 time(s).
 
cheeser
#254 Posted : 1/15/2012 10:20:22 AM
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I read it here.. https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...ts_containing_5-MeO-DMT

It says that 5MeO-DMT was found only in the wood, not the bark or phyllodes. As far as the source in concerned, its cited as October 1995. The page doesn't provide the full citation so I'm unsure as to what else it has to says about it.

I also just came across another source "Tentative identification of 5-MeO-DMT in wood and twigs, NMT in root" - "Trout, K. & Friends. 2007. Some Simple Tryptamines. Second edition. Mydriatic Productions, USA." From the Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/...aloids#cite_note-SST-6.
However this may just be poorly referenced and the information in this book had primary reference from October 1995.
 
endlessness
#255 Posted : 1/15/2012 10:36:49 AM

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The citation is quoted in the beginning of the acacia section in our wiki, it's TLC tentative identifications from Johnny Appleseed's tests, mentioned in Trout's Notes second edition, also as written in the wikipedia you linked.
 
wira
#256 Posted : 1/15/2012 2:17:37 PM

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nen888, I checked Voogelbreinder's book and it doesn't say mimosine is psychoactive. Quite toxic by the sounds of it, at least in the amounts animals would consume.
 
wira
#257 Posted : 1/15/2012 2:25:13 PM

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Cheeser, the pic you linked to of leaves/phyllodes picked in east Gippsland look like they might be from Acacia longifolia or even obtusifolia (perhaps you stumbled across the Vic population of that one?).
By the way, when I opened that link several other advertisement windows popped upStop
 
Dozuki
#258 Posted : 1/15/2012 2:52:24 PM

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Here are a couple papers in regards to Leucaena sp. and mimosine, I have a couple more on just mimosine, these 2 seem more relevant to this thread.
 
nen888
#259 Posted : 1/17/2012 11:55:54 AM
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..thanks Dozuki, cheeser, wira and endlessness..

..wira, is not mimosine the main alkaloid in M. pudica, and isn't the plant described as having psychoactive effects (from an extract) ?
i seem to recall Ott mentioning it was smoked as a cannabis substitute by the Sandinista..? sorry, away from refs a few days...
 
Seldom
#260 Posted : 1/21/2012 12:09:39 AM

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nen - i have massive appreciation for your work. i was lucky enough to catch your talk on NMT in obtusifolia at EGA last year, (nice balaclava) so thank you.

i post over at another forum called Shaman Australis, i started a thread a few days ago asking about a K Trout publication called Notes on the Acacia Species Reported to Contain Tryptamines and/or Beta-Carbolines. the end result being that KT has made a .pdf of the document available through his website. it may be old hat but in the interest of sharing information, here it is

http://www.largelyaccura..._Acacia_revision2004.pdf
 
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