Thanks for the article, knowledge. I have yet to experience the ayahuasca... I am very interested and approaching it with perhaps even more caution than pure DMT, for good reason. Truth is, I would love my first aya experience to be under the supervision of true shamans.

It's definitely been my experience so far that DMT is completely not addictive. I can't really imagine how it could be.

-Chris

It's really NOT Addictive. For me at least DMT is the most powerfull Anti-drug I could have ever found. It even self-regulates itself. It's been a while since I used it, and it hasn't call me yet.

But a word of caution; A bad, or over-intense DMT trip can bring you an anxiety episode. But don't worry, It'll pass on a few days.

The powerful psychadelics need to be treated with respect. A big dose of shrooms will scare the living daylights out of the unprepared, like DMT will. That is why RESEARCH,SET,SETTING,DOSAGE, is SO important.

-Failing to prepare oneself correctly is crazy, because it's not the "drug" that makes you go crazy, it's your lack of control that makes you go crazy...start small, and work up, etc...

- Its perfectly safe if done in a responsable manner with a sitter....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18420937
http://neuroscientifical...is-and-neurogenesis.html
This article talks about how anti-depressants (which increase serotonin signaling) increased BDNF in the rat visual cortex. BDNF "encourages growth and differentiation of new neurons and synapses" (from wiki). Maybe psychedelics have similar properties; This link directly suggests that psychedelics such as DMT can increase BDNF.. Sure, this means that DMT could be a tool to aid neurodevelopment, but uncontrolled cellular growth is the very definition of cancer. If you think you can use DMT to improve your life, I'm not going to stop you. But my spirituality is as developed as it needs to be. Have fun. Peace love and Charlie the Unicorn.

I could be wrong about all of this. Luckily I've been accepted into a biochemistry PhD program so four years from now I may have a better idea about the link between serotonin and neurogenesis than I do now. Until then, I have no intention of risking losing what little brainpower or social skills I have left.

It's been known for a great many years already that ALL natural psychadelics when used sensibly help humans in every way possible. People have been using them to fix all sorts of mental neurosies,etc,etc.. for aeons. Somehow it seems that science now must "prove" this to be scientifically factual, or somehow 1000000's of years of use must have been wrong????-what, really!!!???- PLEASE EXCUSE ME WHILST I LAUGH MYSELF TO DEATH...(thank god for science for "giving me permission" to know something that's been known since the birth of the planet...hahahahahahaha)

I don't think you can really justify those claims, christian. The thing is, most "mental neurosies" have extremely culture bound expression, and the most common ones found in modern industrial society haven't been found in cultures with traditional psychedelic use.

I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion it's not addictive. I mean, anything that's pleasurable can be addictive and it doesn't even have to be a chemical you put in your body (i.e. gambling is highly addictive to some). It may regulate itself to a degree, but that really varies from person to person. Depending on dose size and how the person approaches it, it may be highly addictive without regulating itself in the form of reduced potency or a terrifying experience causing the person to put down the pipe. Addiction is all relative.

-True, because our society uses words to describe someone as mentally ill, because they don't fit in with a depressingly awful lifestyle, that forces us to make friends with people we really dislike, and seperates us from our loved ones, as we work our lives doing jobs we hate. WE have words such as schitzophrenic or depression to describe such normal reactions as an illness!!-words specially chosen to terrorize people into normalizing into the lie of the consumer culture policy, which is ruled by governments and policed to death.

-In the Amazon for example they don't have these words,or conditions,because they don't have to live like we do. They are constantly caressed by close knit community, and nature.Those that show "schitzophrenic" tendancies are considered enlightened for being an indicator that the society is no longer welcoming, and thus encouraged to become shamen in order to cure and help the society...

I see your point and it is valid, which is why I'm personally cautious to specify "in my experience" and the likes. The big difference for me when it comes to the use of DMT as opposed to any other number of drugs and/or alcohol (or other pleasure seeking activities) is that a DMT trip is scarcely what I would define as "pleasurable". Sure, I've had my moments where I encounter genuine euphoria, giddiness, and even strong physically pleasurable sensations, most of my experiences are, well... Not pleasurable. Not typically unpleasant (though I have had unpleasant experiences), but too strong, too powerful, too meaningful for me to use as a pleasure seeking activity.

Though of course the potential remains as it would with anything mind altering. I just haven't encountered anything yet that alarms me about this substance. As often as I find myself having the opportunity to use it, I tend not to until I know the time is right.

-Chris

It definitely is interesting to note that our idea of mental illness is often (but not always) completely arbitrary based on the context of culture, society, and lifestyle. What one in American might describe as schizophrenia might be described elsewhere as divinatory visions. What we might term HPPD here may be considered clairvoyance elsewhere. I mean, certainly we ought not to completely discard the idea that irresponsible and careless use of psychedelics could genuinely cause some serious issues in a person, I like to think that certain cases are really a "heightening of awareness", if you will.

This clearly demonstrates that you aren't familiar with typical onset of schizophrenia and the clear genetic and biological factors related to it.

Your response is incoherent in light of the initial comment I responded to. If tribal societies do not have any of these issues, how could we possible have 1000's of years of evidence from them that psychedelics can be helpful in resolving them?

Ragbar, i don't think you understand what i have first of all clearly stated. That psychadelics used safely, are helpful to a persons mind,body and soul. The reason why most of these cultures do not generally display schitzophrenia is because they have close knitted societies that provide them with the "closeness and mental backing" so necessary in order to overcome passing neurosis,plus the use of psychadelics to banish them for good. Those that are especially "schitzophrenic" ( by western diagnosis, are encouraged into shamanism )- according to Terence Mckenna.They don't get ill, because they are living with nature, as opposed to us westerners who are living APART from nature in our sick, concrete societies!

- The term schitzophrenic is a loose term used to describe so called mental illness. (I was quoting from what Terence Mckenna said on his u-tube "schitzophrenic or shamanic" video.He was stating that schitzophrenia is a term that could in fact be used for himself or any one of us forum users, so not really mental illness, rather more about not wanting anything to do with so called society. Knowing that society sucks big time, mostly thanks to the government , on e must ask -"who is really sick, those that follow-or those that don't??"

- psychadelics have been used for 10000's of years to help mankind (when they were stopped by government- materialism and silly religions took their place, but never satisfied the human need for a psychadelic experience)-that is why we are trying to manoevre more into this realm yet again, to get back on the programme we were meant to be on.

-As for not knowing anything about schitzophrenia, i spent 2 years looking after someone with a schitzophrenic diagnosis, and i can tell you i didn't like to see him taking the meds he took. I reckon a certain dose of shrooms would have worked muccch better!!

-Ragbar, perhaps you do not realise this but there are 100000's of perfectly healthy people that have been prescribed prozac because of a very poor formulae of depression diagnosis. These people were indeed sad for natural reasons due to a certain trigger, but not suffering from depression. That didn't stop medical "professionals" from diagnosing them with depression,though!!

-The pharma industry is making a lot of money out of the mental illness industry by treating, not curing patients. Just a few mushrooms would cure their patients ( if they were actually ill in the 1'st place), and put them out of business forever, as well as all those bullshit big words they use to try and complicate things into their favor.....


- BELIEVE ME, there are a lot of people in mental homes that should never have been put in there in the 1'st place, who YES, now are ill, for the prescribed medication they are on, and the asylum itself driving them mad!!
What got them misdiagnosed in the first place was the doctors using a bad diagnostic model in the first place,ETC....

-100% true , Hermetic. Responsible use of psychadelics that are suited specifically to what you are trying to achieve are most definately a good choice-providing they are used with appropiate set,setting, dose,etc...

You make some good points, but I would caution you that those people who are schizophrenic often times get very different effects from psychedelics than the average person. It can range from immunity to disastrous. This, like everything is not guaranteed, but schizophrenics have a history for not being able to handle psychedelics well.

christian, of course I did understand what you very clearly stated, and I pointed out some areas that I don't believe you had engaged with critically.

Schizophrenia is not a loose term describing mental illness. If McKenna did make the claim you ascribe to him, he is incorrect.

I'm very aware of the conflicts regarding mental health in the industrial world as a whole and the United States in particular. I won't touch the semantic argument of medicalizing mental well-being. I fail to see a fundamental distinction between using the classic psychedelics and prozac to help deal with these "natural reasons" you speak of. Lethal diarrhea is a natural reaction to cholera, and we use tools to treat it.

You do not have any factual basis for your claims that a few mushrooms would "cure" all of those currently being treated by psychiatrists. We actually have a lot of wonderful research from between the 1940's and late 1960's that suggests quite differently. Many distressed individuals, particularly those with schizophrenia, were treated with psychedelics and they did not get better.

Ragbar, those mentally ill that were in the past treated with psychadelics were not in my opinion treated correctly -with reference of firstly being told what was gonna happen to them,or in the right set with a comforting person, or right setting.Plus they didn't know what we know today about using psychadelics. This makes a massive difference. When the government banned them, the research stopped, and people have been deprived from access to a potential cure!!

-Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that people that are VERY sick are gonna be cured or helped, for once a condition has manifested it can be too late for the gentle use of psychadelics. However treatment with psychadelics does not necessarily mean at visionary doses, for example small doses of ketamine have proved highly effective at keeping depression at bay.....

-Recently psilocybin research has shown to be of benefit to people with mental conditions. Slowly the truth is coming out,,,,

Do you have a credible source for this information. I'm curious to look into it.

-Recently psilocybin research has shown to be of benefit to people with mental conditions. Slowly the truth is coming out,,,,

- try this http://www.nytimes.com/2...ence/12psychedelics.html

That article only mentions depression as the "mental illness" being treated with it. I understand that depression is currently being classified by the psychiatric community as a mental illness (which makes much more of the global population "mentally ill" I might add), but it makes no mention of schizophrenia or any serious mental disorders. I don't think this article makes your case.

I can't possibly imagine that psychedelics could even be remotely beneficial to someone with schizophrenia. How could they? Depression, I could see. Coping with the death process, I could definitely see that. They certainly have a lot of uses, but I would think it an awful idea for a schizo to ingest psychedelics.

A lot of this conversation though originally spawned from the question, "How grave is the danger of DMT use in terms of being the catalyst for grave mental illness". My use of DMT has from the start been a launching point for spiritual and experimental observation. What was originally suggested in that warning was that DMT led these 6 men to irrevocable insanity, 2 of which were experienced with oral DMT dosing and were allegedly far worse off than those who simply smoked it.

My point to the person in question was that psychedelics could and probably would be quite harmful to those diagnosed or predisposed with serious mental illness, and his response was essentially, "Man, aren't we all predisposed?" I mean, perhaps, but I think that really dodged the issue. I'm not predisposed to schizophrenia. Depression, sure. Addiction, yeah, got it. But the question was, in your experience and observation -- do you see DMT leading to self-castrating, suicidal insanity, or insanity at all for that matter?

I feel that the lot of you are sufficient examples of safe and sane DMT use and luckily none of you seem to have corroborated the types of outcomes this guy warned me of.