I guess many ppl already noticed that the equipment can make loads of difference in the dmt and harmalas extraction, in terms of yield, time taken and practicality in general

what have SWIYs found to be good equipment that helps, be it simple stuff (like particular types of containers or scraping tools, different types of pipettes, etc) or the more complex equipment (soxhlet, buchner and vacuum filtration, magnetic stirring, rotary evaporators, different types of special filter papers, etc) ?

would a buchner + kitasato be a good investment and make life easier for extraction?

SWIM wouldnt have the vacuum pump but thought that one could improvise with a vacuum cleaner

The idea would be that with the buchner, there would first of all be no problems when removing the container from freeze precipitation. SWIM could quickly pour off naphtha, then put container upside down in the buchner, turn on vacuum, then all remaining naphtha would be easily sucked out of the crystals, so they could be scrapped off..

SWIM thought also this would help a lot with the problematic filtering that is known when extracting harmalas from syrian rue..

what do you guys think? Is there any other equipment that is not so expensive and yet helps a lot when extracting spice and harmalas?

#1) Vacuum filtration system with a Buchner funnel!

SWIM loves his vacuum filtration system. He uses it all the time and has several different sized Buchner funnels he uses for different purposes, and many different kinds of filter paper. He has a few large 420 ml PP funnels for normal filtering work. He also has a few tiny 42 ml PP funnels for doing work with crystals.

The PP Buchner funnels are much better than the solid porcelain Buchner funnels because they come apart for easy cleaning and they can handle a larger load, and are much lighter and so are less likely to topple over if the filter flask is not clamped down.

#2) Filters!

The type of filters used makes a BIG DIFFERENCE. Glass micro fiber filters are the best for filtering hard to filter items when you need to filter out everything that isn’t dissolved. The cheap normal filters are the best for working with crystals. The glass micro fiber papers will get crystals stuck really hard to them, so only use them for filtering out things, never for catching crystals you plan to collect off of the filter. For filtering tough to filter liquid, these cannot be beat. They can outlast 10 normal papers before clogging.

When all you need to do is filter out large particles, large cotton balls are a really good choice. They are very cheap. They will work in a vacuum filter system if a normal funnel is used instead of a Buchner funnel. With really tough to filter material, sometimes the only thing that will work well is cotton balls or a handkerchief.

When filtering with a handkerchief, place it over a large wire mesh filter, the kind used in the kitchen. Pour the plant material through it. Don’t use vacuum. Let it gravity filter. If it gets clogged, pour the liquid out and wash the handkerchief and try again. This can filter the toughest of things. If you can’t filter using this method, you might want to give up with this type of filtering and maybe use cold filtering instead. That’s a technique where you leave the liquid in the refrigerator for a few days for all the solids to settle to the bottom, and then you pour of the top layer containing no solids and filter only that.

So it’s like this:

A) Thin paper filters, Buchner funnel and vacuum for crystals and easy to filter items
B) Thick glass micro fiber filters, Buchner funnel and vacuum for harder to filter items
C) Cotton balls, normal funnel and vacuum for filtering large particles and tough to filter items
D) Handkerchief over wire mesh for filtering super tough to filter items.
E) Cold filter with a Handkerchief over wire mesh.

If A doesn’t work, move down the list until something works. E is the last resort. Keep filtering until you are able to filter at B. If you can’t filter at B, you still have lots of gunk present that needs to be removed. Some people always choose E right from the start and then move up the list.

#3) Digital hotplate stirrer!

This is really a handy item. It’s used all the time. It can mix things endlessly for you while keeping them at the right temperature! You can’t beat that!

#4) Distillation setup with an additional funnel!

An additional funnel properly setup is a real time saver. You can distill your solvent and keep adding more solvent without ever removing your boiling flask!

#5) Soxhlet!

A Soxhlet is GREAT! But it’s only good for extracting certain things, not everything. It’s great for coarsely ground Anadenanthera colubrina/peregrina seeds, Mimosa hostilis, Psychotria viridis, Diplopterys cabrerana, but no so good for Peganum harmala. Peganum harmala is a real pain to extract; it has something in it that clogs up filters like crazy so the Soxhlet tends to get clogged.

#6) Continuous Liquid Liquid Extractor with a shutoff valve!

This is great. You fill it with your two layers of solvent for you’re A/B extraction and it does all the work of extraction for you. And at the end you can close the shutoff valve and concentrate your solvent all in one item! It’s REALLY COOL! No more shaking separatory funnels, no more problems with emulsions. You can’t beat that! Also by using this item with the shutoff valve closed it doubles as a distillation setup! You can distill all your solvents in it. It’s a really handy device with multiple uses.

Also it doubles as a distillation setup!

excellent! I might come back to this for more questions if some money comes in for SWIM to improve his home lab


for now let me just ask something.. out of those filter set ups and equip, what seems to work better for the harmala extraction, given that it seems to be such a pain in the ass for filtering?

First off, Syrian Rue is a nightmare to filter. Extracting from Syrian Rue is simple in terms of how it’s done, but everyone knows it is next to impossible to filter. That’s what keeps the cost of natural harmine so high. Filtering the extract is a pricey process. You either spend all day with filter papers, or you need to cold filter which is expensive.

I’ve not seem a good way to filter Syrian Rue published anywhere. All of the Syrian Rue extraction techs I’ve seen tend to gloss over how difficult it is to filter.

Is there a trick someone knows that makes filtering Syrian Rue extracts a little less time consuming?


Second, what is a kitasato?

Thirdly, do not use a vacuum cleaner. The vacuum is WAY TOO HIGH. It will break the filter paper. Buy a cheap aquarium air pump at a pet store that has an air intake that can connect to tubing. That’s what SWIM uses. It is perfect. This is the exact model SWIM uses:

http://www.merrifieldgar...3442&openparent=1978

kitasato is basically the flask used together with the buchner filter

here´s a pic


and the vacuum, thanks for the tip


lastly... the harmala.. yeah indeed i´ve heard many ppl saying its a pain in the ass.. I guess I will just have to try different improvisations for that.. if I come up with anything, will let you know... (though I still have to wait for the rue to arrive ) ..

Kitasato? Hmmm...that's new to me...I've always called that a filter flask.

There's something in the rue seeds that is thick and clogs filters, sort of like what's in cactus. Even extractions from whole seeds that are not crushed will clog the filters. So it’s not so much caused by small particles but rather by some sort of gelling agent present that is water soluble. I’ve heard that using heat causes more of this thick stuff to be extracted. Some people recommend extracting at room temperature by letting the seeds sit in a mix of vinegar and water.

The key is to find a solvent that harmine and harmaline are both soluble in that the thick gelling agent is not soluble in.

One solvent NOT to use is alcohol. It converts harmaline into harmala red on exposure to oxygen. Harmala red is a dye used for Persian carpets. As far as I know, the dye known as harmala red is inactive. But then again, maybe that’s where the term “magic carpet” comes from. Maybe if you sit of a Persian carpet full of harmala red, you’d trip in some cases

lol about the magic carpet

really, no alcohol? then what about in the harmala extraction thread, the first tek mentioned washing the extracted salt precipitated goo with alcohol, which would dissolve the alkaloids and not the goo.. so then the alcohol would be evapped, yielding the harmalas.. The person did say methanol, dont know if that would make a difference.. what do you think?

I guess a first attempt, then, would be some simple non polar solvent like hexane (unless someone already attempted that)..

btw.. what about some stronger vacuum, wouldnt that somehow help? you mentioned a vacuum cleaner is too strong, but one could regulate it by putting it farther away or something of the sort, allowing for a strong pull that could maybe unclog but still not strong enough to rip the paper ?

The guy using methanol doesn’t know what he’s doing.

All the books I’ve read say don't use alcohol of any kind, unless you can evaporate the harmaline in an oxygen free environment. If harmaline HCl is dried in alcohol, it forms harmaline HCl anhydride which becomes harmala red easily on exposure to air. If harmaline HCl is dried from water, it forms harmaline HCl dihydrate which is protected from forming harmala red.

SWIM has seen pure yellow harmaline HCl turn into bright red "harmala red" right before his eyes after evaporating in the IPA. So don't use alcohol unless you like smaller yields or you specifically want to make harmala red.

About the vacuum. A clogged paper will always break, not unclog, if more vacuum is applied.

excellent, thanks a lot for the info

kitasato


filtering flask w/ side tubulation ?

well you guys are the chemists, I dont know It was the name I learned from a friend, but maybe its a name more commonly used in the country I live in, dont know

buchner flask also called kitasato

Well, this is why I love this site, you learn something new everyday.

See also

* Büchner Bong


never figured to use it like that.

though a coldfinger would make a nice vaporization pipe

Some jerk named Stwalkerster deleted that page from Wikipedia! Fortunately you can see the cached page of it using google

I thought that was my original idea. I didn’t know someone else already thought of it before me!

It makes a really good water pipe. And since filter flasks come in so many different sizes you can easily make one that suits your particular needs.

Just make sure the thistle is borosilicate glass and NOT flint glass. A lot of thistles are made of flint glass, which will crack when a flame is applied to it.

Alright guys? ILPT heard that acetone is good to use in p. h. extraction. What do you think,lads? Heard 69ron`s swimmer has a soxhlet (lovely soxhlet ) but Did he try to extract P.H. with acetone or mek or any other ketone in his soxhlet ???

No he never tried acetone in a Soxhlet with Peganum harmala.

Acetone would be great if it doesn't produce harmaline HCl as the anhydride. I haven't read about that happening with acetone.

Acetone is a great solvent for a Soxhlet. It boils at a low temperature and evaporates really fast. IF the actives are soluble in it that would probably be the best bet. The horrible gelatinous material in the seeds that keeps clogging filter papers is probably not soluble in acetone.

I suspect that the main actives are also not soluble in acetone though. But I’ve not read anything about their solubility in acetone.

If you have a black light, you can easily tell if some of the actives (harmine, harmaline, harmalol, etc.) get extracted with acetone or not. The acetone would glow blueish green in black light if the actives are present.

By the way, acetone works wonderfully for extracting LSA from ground HBWR seeds. SWIM did that in a Soxhlet and it did a great job of extracting every last bit. Since LSA in unstable in heat, acetone is one of the best solvents to use in a Soxhlet for extracting it.

The harmala alkaloids are somewhat unstable in prolonged heat as well, but not as much as LSA is. At least that’s how it seems to SWIM.

You might have to freebase the harmine and harmaline before it could be extracted with acetone.

Harmalol Trihydrate, and freebase vasicine, both found in Peganum harmala, are soluble in acetone. Harmalol is an interesting compound. It’s quite different from harmine and harmaline, and it’s only a weak RIMA. SWIM tried it once. It felt like a weak non-psychedelic dose of psilocybin.

Acetone is worth a shot.

69ron,

SWIM recently attained a liquid/liquid. SWIM is confused as to what you mean by 'shut-off valve'. Can you please explain? I am interested in using the liquid/liquid to double as a distillation setup to purify DCM.

Only some have a shut-off valve, not all of them.


Here's a heaver than water model without the valve:

Here's a heaver than water model with the valve:

Here's a lighter than water model without the valve:

Here's a lighter than water model with the valve:


The heavier than water models work with solvents like DCM that are heavier than water, the others work with solvents like heptane which are lighter than water.

You see where the valves are? When opened, they work as liquid/liquid extractors, when closed they work as distilling apparatus.

Which kind do you have?

Another item which is REALLY COOL is the pH Turtle. Here's a pick:



It cost about $100 bucks and is one of the best pH meters you can buy for the money. It plugs into a PC and it can graph pH changes, keep logs and notes for you, it auto-calibrates really easily, allows you to set min and max alarms (a really cool feature).

I own this. I got it a few days ago and it’s the best pH meter I’ve ever used that doesn’t cost a fortune. The alarm feature is really handy. You can setup some acid to drip into a beaker of liquid while you go off to watch TV, and once the pH goes down to say 2.5 then an alarm will sound on your PC. It’s REALLY COOL.