MAOI's (mao-b i believe) usually increase serotonin, but in combination with DMT the opposite is reached. The increase in serotonin receptors is seen with the other psychedelic tryptamine's as wel and is a response of the body to the serotonin shortage. It can be that the MAOI's have a much longer lasting effect then the DMT, so that afterwards, serotonin itself is increased also.

I don’t feel any antipathy for 69 ron. Ask him, he knows. Actually I believe he is a great “modern shaman”, who was initiated in the secret of the universe. (May be my old brain is damaged because of the ingestion of so many substances over the years, but this is, what I believe.). And I am grateful for his detailed extraction tecs and for his excellent reports about the things, he saw out there in the other worlds. My happy cuttlefish will need his knowledge to extract and separate dmt and meo dmt from a special phalaris grass in near future….

And I don’t feel any hostility towards drainlife as well. It may seem to you so, but someday, you will be as wise and all knowing as me for sure (hohohhahahhehehe), and you will realise, that I am emphatic, that I understand the tragedy, what happened to drainlife.

I experienced this mind chattering, frightful loops too. It happened to me 15 years ago, I swallowed a massive, a MASSIVE overdose of ps. Cyanescens. So did a friend of mine. My friend reported afterwards, that he could not remember anything. I still can!
I melted away! Everything “material” melted away. Even my thoughts melted. After a while everything recristallised. So did my EGO. Then everything went in a liquid state again. I heard strange metallic sounds, some sort of cosmic music, I saw tentacles …multidimensional eyes, watching me, speaking to me, laughing at me: “this little fool” they said “he asked to recieve the knowledge, now he has to learn the basic lessons about live…and death. (It was the only time an entity “spoke” to me in this telepathic way, I never experienced this again) Then I materialised again. I saw the room. Everything was still here. But…something other was present as well. And this “something other” pulled me back in the liquid state without mercy in the next moment. I dived through the unconsciousness of mankind, the origin of the ancient myths of human race ….and other non human races(!). And I became a witness of endless cycles of birth, dead and rebirth of universes. There was no escape! And my existence died, as soon as I went into liquid state and I was born again, as soon as I recristallised. Over and over. Endlessly. This trip wasn’t psycadelic, it was dissociative as well. In a horrorful, frightful way.
In “reality” I behaved like an epileptic. I screamed and made strange, animal sounds, I hurt myself, because I wanted to test if my flesh and bones are liquid, I eat the dirt of my potted ficus, because I wanted to express, that we are part of mother earth, I broke glass, last but not least I pissed in my bed, just wondering if this was real, I just let it flow, because everything floated… next morning my neighbours told me, that they were so worried about the strange noises last night, that they wanted to call the police. Fortunately they didn’t…..
Nowadays I don’t behave like that, even than I am tripping on high doses. I sit in this Buddhist-lotus position, without moving uncontrolled, singing the holy sound called “ohm” sometimes, and explore with my inner core (I believe this core is eternal, and can not be harmed or touched by the things "EGO" see, think or feel while tripping…may be "my" zns can be harmed by this substances, but my inner core can’t, I believe…..)

I share the paradigms of polytrip, that serotonin normally diminishes this loopings in the brain, it is fascinating, that the mathematic operation, that creates the mandelbrot fractals, is also a sort of looping, called “iteration”, that means, in short, you put the result of a mathematical operation as factor in and you get a new result, this new result you put in and get another result, do this many, many times and you definite one point of the Mandelbrot plane, make this operation for every pixel of the pic and you get the picture of the fractal, so it seems logical to me, that our brain works with similar loops, then tripping.

But on the other hand the experience has some other quality, which isn’t so easy to explain, imho.
Maybe drainlive had some sort of “initation”. A “shaman” would express it like this.
He is free to follow the call or not. But he will never be the same, he was before.
The fool wanted to see, and he did. Now its his job to integrate.
That’s what I think.

I've been having lots of loops recently, and i've just typed this out off the end of a journey, so it probably reads like the ramblings of a madman, but here you go:


The loop is the entire point. It cycles things from the unconsious to the conscious mind, the whole universe of energy to the universe which "exists" as reality. At the same time there is a holographic element, which echoes the experience back to you, creating a feedback effect. The point where you perceive the loop as happening is the point at which everything is brought into existance as the matter we experience, and everything else is the seething energy of creation behind matter. This is constantly happening in a loop - it is the rotating wheel, etc etc. Now in a holographic universe there are an infinite number of other "you's" (which aren't really "other" as such, its all still you), and they are all having the same experience as you, but seemingly at different rates. It's like receiving an echo from multiple reflective surfaces. You receive the echoes at different times, and when you receive the echo it feeds back into the loop, which in turn does the same for all the other holographic "yous", and the cycle continues. Perception of the loop seems to happen when you receive the echo and it feeds back on itself. Once you understand the point of the loop it's an ecstatic experience and you keep wanting it to happen.

This is definately an interresting way of looking at it. I think that you describe a different sort of loop-effect here. There is the mental looping proces, wich i think is more of a neurological fenomenon. You describe something that seems to refer to quantummechanics, to both schrödinger and heisenberg. On the tiniest levels, particles can often occupy states in wich they are all of there possible states at the same time, until perception of them determines in what state they actually are. You seem to describe this as a sort of mutual,recurrent phenomenon. I think the mathematical structure of the looping is something that occurs throughout nature, so some of the mathematicial structure's as seen in quantummechanics will also aply to neurological processes, multiplication of DNA, etc.
Another thread here mentions fractals (thread on the mantelbrod fractal) where you see much of the same things. Some people mentioned the idea that the whole universe is like one big fractal, where you see the same principles recurring at all levels, from the tiniest to the largest, united in one big superstructure.

Interesting and sounds right, I wonder if the input to the optical nerves are really just 'made up' though, or if the input on dmt is being routed from another part of the mind. If it is made up, what are the parametres for it's structure... recent memories and emotions? Or is there perhaps also an element from realms we cannot explain as coming from experiences we've had (ourselves, in this body, in this life).

Regarding looping, there is nothing like salvia to get me looping to infinitty. In fact i find the looping becomes a hard pounding or 'bright light of thoughts'.. right after returning from a breakthrough on salvia... bam zzzzz bam zzzzz bam, round and around... an increasingly wider oscillation feedback until it is so wide - i can no longer feel it anymore. I feel as if we are always looping but the wider (long duration) the loop the less we can recognize it.

Looping on dmt can feel like time is going forward, then backward, then forward, then backward, but only when i have music playing with a running arpeggio or similar. In silence i find things move forward smoothly along the arrow of time, so i do not play music unless it's purely ambient or i am so familiar with it, it has become basically ambient to my mind. New unheard music+dmt = potential loop horror.

Good one! That captured my positive experiences very well. It pays to report as soon as you finish a journey. Thank a lot for that indeed. You reminded me to remember during the trip to ride the loop instead of getting 'tripped' by it, then everything begins to fall into place.

SWIM has experienced this. It was quite frightening until SWIM stopped the track/music machine.

Maybe that has something to do with it. I usually have a Shoutcast stream on the go when i'm off journeying ("Alien Lounge - Sounds from the UFOs" for those that are interested), but it's only been recently I started experiencing loops, it's never been a problem before. I'll try silence or some familiar tunes next time.

The first loops I had were very much "tape-loop" type loops, just like polytrip was describing (a neurological thought process). At first I thought it might have been one of the "programs" that we have, such as when we do things on automatic pilot - like the trip had tapped into that mechanism somehow, and was getting replayed over and over again. Can't say I enjoyed it as such, it was a bit weird and unsettling, once I realised I was looping it was a case of "Oh man, here we go again". The feedback effect that happens in a loop can amplify the feelings you're having each time through it - last time I knew I was in a loop but not to worry, so I had good feelings in the feedback loop that time that kept on building.

I'll try to remember to open my eyes for a couple of seconds if it happens again, see if that can help to break out of it. Maybe normally we're just not aware of it happening, and higher dosages make you aware of it. Perhaps the loop only really ends when we die, and we just continue off into hyperspace (until the next time)

People who have obsessive compulsive disorders tend to get trapped in thought loops that they can't stop. Those people's symptoms also often respond to SSRI's so maybe the low seretonin thing could be on to something. Interesting.

SWIM is a bit OCD, he gets into things and cares very passionately, then steps away for a month or so, then dives back in. SWIM is having an existential crisis. A real one, for the first time. SWIM is leaning towards the possibility of God. The thought that everything came from nothing, it's overwhelming at times. The universe can collapse and everything will be gone. It terrifies me a bit. Just the thought though, that something impossible happened to create this, gives me hope. That there is a God. I hope so.

The uncertainty of it all frightens me at times. We are the universe. Every one of us. The matter we are made of has existed since the big bang. We're conscious beings. We are the universe, living and self aware. We don't know how or why we're here, or where we're going. Neither does the universe. It just is. I hope there is a God, and I hope he knows and cares for all of us. I hope it's infinite. It seems like it is in that case, it can't end. It would never exhaust all possibilities. This makes me think of Pi. If there is a pattern in Pi, then the universe will repeat eventually. If there isn't, then it'll never end. That's how I feel. I exist because I had to exist, because I'm part of infinite possibilities. If there is no loop, I can't exist again. Either way, it's awesome. The uncertainty is frightening though.

I experience great time alterations and distortion but no loops as yet maybe because of my disbelief in repetition, it doesnt exist. We travel through this realm of possibility and every moment is unique in the dimensions we can experience. I believe on dmt we can experience the murky, chaotic yet ordered edges of time.
To conceive is to bring into existence somewhere. We are selfconcious shrapnell lol

SWIM had similar things happen on high doses of mushrooms. He was at festival and it was getting dark as SWIM was peaking. He saw the cycle of the universe and all the souls in it going damn we gotta do this again and again over and over for all eternity just cycle destory rebirth etc. Eventually I accepted the ineviatable end and rest from all this existence accepted the end of everything. When SWIM thought that it suddenly snapped back. SWIM stood up heard the music saw everyone dancing put a smile on his face felt increadabily relieved and alive cracked a beer and partied all night. The lesson of the trip? Accepting our ineviatable end is the key to being free from the fear.

it seems prevalent that our 4th dimensional manifestations are obsessed with time, with beginnings and ends. there is a common motif in hyperspace of not caring about time, or it being timeless. because time doesn't matter. the very definition of a singularity makes it completely irrational to fear it. so don't worry, be happy.

the one thing I've learned is that I don't know anything. terms like 'should' and 'inferior' are completely silly. enjoy the ride, because it sure is a fun one.

SWIM did a high dose smoked DMT last night and broke through coming face to face with a beautiful playful entity and whilst I held calm for most of the ride near the end human thoughts started going from one to the next and to the next then back to the 1st thought and looped about 4 or 5 times until i just gave up thinking realising the uselessness of my organic brain tryin to function whilst being multidimensional in hyperspace. I like the idea of quantum realities and experiencing them all together , alot of theories on the DMT trip involve experiencing quantum states and shamanic journeys entering the quantum multiverse. It is really useful to try and meditate and clear all thoughts before blast off as emptiness and oneness is as far way from the human realm of language as you can get.

SWIM had heard that smoking a hit about an hour before eating mushrooms or acid would enhance the trip and make it more DMT like. Boy was that right. The trip was good for a while with definite enhanced visuals but then SWIM would get a thought in his head and it would keep looping. His memories were all fucked up. He could not get his mind to contemplate anything more than 30 seconds in the future or past. His mind would try to contemplate a thought in a linear fashion and move on to more thoughts in a sequence but his mind kept looping back to the original thought. His mind would then repeat the sequence and try to get to a conclusion and maybe get a little bit further this time but then it would loop back again. Ever heard the statement "Be in the now" well this was too much in the now. SWIM says it's a very hard sensation to describe.

I believe what has occured in all of you is psychosis.

I have recieved psychosis from DXM, LSD and 2c-e.

They have always felt very similar, almost exactly similar.

The looping you are talking about is just what a schizophrenic goes through. Think about it. Have you ever met or known an unmedicatedschizophrenic? If you talk to them for extended amounts of time (most homeless people can be like this) you will notice very quickly they are in a LOOP! It can tone down or up, when they are in the highest peak they will talk super fast and be in a complete loop..scary shit.


This is what I have noticed from personal experience:
Every single psychosis/loop I have gone into started out from intense and super-fast psychedelic realizations. I am assuming everyone here knows that when they take psychedelics they start to realize things about life/themsleves. You also realize things you can change and how you can change them. Things that are obvious but were completely blind to you at the time.

Well, every time I have looped, I have had a bunch of these crazy realizations. They get me in a point where I am completely revved up and euphoric. It then becomes too intense and it scares me. I then start looping. It then becomes the most terrific thing I have experienced. I then do not use hallucenogenics for a long time period.

The DXM happened on a mega dose.
The LSD happened on a regular dose.
The 2c-e happned on an unknown dose. I am pretty sure it was 10mg (my normal dose was 20mg), but there actually is a possibility I misweighed MDMA as 2c-e for 100mg too..I'm not sure. The 2c-e pyschosis loop was the most gnarly intesne schizophrenic state of mind I have ever been in..

A schizofrenic mind might resemble a mind on psychedelics in some way.
Basically a schizofrenic does not know or does not has the power to rationalize, that his dellusions are his own and caused by his state of mind.
With DMT, you have to take real large amounts to completely forget this thing and by then you are totally immobilized, not even able to go preaching on the streets that you are jesus but the CIA doesn't want everybody to know so that's why you're mind is being tapped, etc.

^yeah, what happened to me wasn't so revealing, I could barely form a thought let alone experience deep onsifht . Thrashing around like a lunatica, definitey psychosis, I felt crazy, and it continued after for a while, paranoia, all kinds of schizo symptoms, like "oh my god the moon is speeding towards earth! The corporations don't want us to know because we'll stop buying stuff!", crazy scared for about a month after that, didn't want to be alone for a second and I still don't like being alone now. I enjoyed solitude before that.

I always suspected that DMT could have serious nerve-wrecking effects as well.
I often find people on this forum are too naïve about this risk. DMT is an intense experience. And like intense things can contribute to your life in a positive way, they can have a negative impact as well.

I would recomend people to use DMT in a moderate way. just read the post above.
The benefits will only be greater and everything will only be of much more value if you aply a degree of moderacy.

SWIM has had the infinite loop experience with Salvia. Never taken enough DMT yet to get the looping, but SWIM thinks even 10mg is enough for a good experience.