Long overdue. Sorry for that xtechre

At first I wanted to name this thread something like "CHANGE YOUR LIFE IN 15 SECONDS !!!-NUTRITION" and then say "Got'cha but since you already clicked hear me out" but a quote made me change my mind.

"There must be a secret to wealth, early retirement, being happy an finding love"

I can't, actually I don't want to trick you into doing anything, even in reading my thread. If you believe in secrets then great, good luck with that. Magical supplements from obscure plants that melt fat like fire and taste like chocolate won't be discussed here. Changing your dietary habits is hard work for most and YOU need to take responsibility for that. If you feel bad after eating 5 nuttela filled donuts or move around like you were dead since all you eat are salads, fish and lean meat but "Hey at least no fat", one would think that you might want to think about changing your diet but nah.

"It's too hard"
"I can't eat out then"
"It's expensive"
"Newspaper said otherwise"
"It's my genes, I can't help it"
"People will think I'm strange"

Did it all, heard it all.

NY Times doesn't care about your health, American Heart Association doesn't care about your health, Merck doesn't care you health. It's your body, so you need to take care of it. If you really want to change your diet, embrace that.

So what am I proposing ?

Well, a month. A test. Giving your life a chance to get better.

12 Steps
1. Eliminate sugar (including fruit juices and sports drinks that contain HFCS) and all foods that contain flour.

2. Start eating proper fats - Use healthy animal fats or coconut fat to substitute fat calories for calories that formerly came from sugar and flour. Drink whole cream or coconut milk.

3. Eliminate gluten grains. Limit grains like corn and rice, which are nutritionally poor.

4. Eliminate grain and seed derived oils (cooking oils) Cook with Ghee, butter, animal fats, or coconut oil.

5. Favor ruminants like beef, lamb and bison for your meat. Eat eggs and some fish.

6. Make sure you are Vitamin D replete. Get daily midday sun or consider supplementation.

7. 2 or 3 meals a day is best. Don't graze like a herbivore.

8. Adjust your 6s and 3s. Pastured (grass fed) dairy and grass fed beef or bison has a more optimal 6:3 ratio, more vitamins and CLA. A teaspoon or two of Carlson's fish oil (1-2 g DHA/EPA) daily is good compensatory supplementation if you eat grain-fed beef or no fish.

9. Proper exercise - emphasizing resistance and interval training over long aerobic sessions.

10. Most modern fruit is just a candy bar from a tree. Go easy on bags of sugar like apples. Stick with berries and avoid watermelon which is pure fructose. Eat in moderation.

11. Eliminate legumes

12. If you are allergic to milk protein or concerned about theoretical risks of casein, you can stick to butter and cream and avoid milk and soft cheeses.

No counting, measuring or weighing is required, nor is it encouraged.

The plan is about what not to eat more than what you should eat.

Additional resources:
101 Primal Blueprint

Internet resources:
1. PaleoNu (one of the best blogs on nutrition)
2. Mark's Daily Apple (From the author of the Primal Blueprint. Very friendly and informative)
3. PaleoHacks (A question forum for all things Paleo related. Insane amounts of knowledge but good search skills needed)
4. Robb Wolf
5. Whole Health Source (Breaking down studies. More user friendly than ON)
6. Hyperlipid (Breaking down studies. Hardcore)
7. Cooling inflammation (leading gut flora blogger)
8. Healthy Sceptic
9. Cholesterol and health

There are quite a few more but you don't need anything except to follow those 10 rules or that guide although if you wish evidence for this particular nutritional regime, you can g33k yourself out for months with these blogs.

Books:
Primal Blueprint (Great intro book)
Paleo Solution (G33ks will love this. A slightly different stance than PB but still good)
The Perfect Health Diet ()

Podcasts:
Jimmy Moore (I think everyone from "alternative" health side of things has been in his show)
Robb Wolf (author of the Paleo Solution)
The Healthy Sceptic

We can debate or you can try. Your choice. I can link PubMed studies (or better yet you can search for it @PaleoHacks or through the mentioned blogs) but you'll have to do the hard work.

If you wish to discuss anything that you think is too private or have some more personal question I'm available through PM. There are no dumb questions, just something

Keep shining.

This is really useful Shaolin, thank you for posting

Much love,
Sally
xx

Since new year I've been on the simplest diet I can in my household. Bread, shredded wheat, soya milk, tea, water, beans, fish and fruit. I've felt amazing and really wish more people could see the benefits, the word 'health' has been trivialised.

Definitely a few things here I'll have to implement. What do you actually eat day to day yourself? Not sure what to replace bread with.

A lot of that looks like very good advice, but I'm curious about one point: #11. Eliminate legumes

What exactly is the issue with legumes? They're rich in nutrients: protein, soluble fiber, a lot of vitamins and minerals. I'd be reluctant to eliminate them without good reason, since they're a central part of so many foods I love (dal, hummus, miser wat, lentil stew, etc.)... and healthy too!

Why is everyone so against grain?

People have all kinds of wacked out theories about cereal grains and how its the bane of the western diet. I've heard everything from its the cause of cancer to diabetes. Type II diabetes can be caused by a bad diet with too much sugar and chronic metabolic abuse but everyone should be aware of that by now and adjust accordingly. Quite frankly I think most of this "hate on grain" its a bunch of rubbish unless you are allergic to it or otherwise unhealthy.

Grain literally built human civilization.

The funniest part is that the people who are so against grain tend to think they are eco-friendly, green, or back to our 'primal' diet. Yet most refuse to acknowledge that if all humans switched to an only meat fish and fresh fruit diet our environment would be destroyed even faster then it is now. If you think fisheries are having a hard time being sustainable now you can forget them if people all took this diet advice. You can forget the rain forest too because of all the land needed for meat production would increase. Eating only fresh fruit doesn't make sense environmentally either if you live in a cold climate and its winter. Canning is a good thing! Of course everyone should eat a balance and make sure you are getting enough nutrients but to completely eliminate grains makes no sense to me again unless you need to lose some weight or are allergic. Or don't like them?

Best diet advice:

Eat a bunch of different stuff and don't over indulge what we already know isn't good for you.

Of course I could be wrong so please bombard me with nutritional advice and science.

Eat as varied a diet as you can so your body is always prepared for whatever you manage to afford.

Key points.

1. How do you know you're not "allergic" ? I'll make an assumption that you don't know you "control" state. Ergo that's why I believe everyone should try 30 days without to see what's the difference.
2. Gluten/Gliadin
3. Antinutrients (Damn you talked about this. Plants need to defend themselves). Phytic acid and minerals, ...

Various
All of the links involve papers worry not

Panu1:
http://www.paleonu.com/p...ainst-cereal-grains.html

Panu2:
http://www.paleonu.com/p...st-cereal-grains-ii.html


MDA entry
http://www.marksdailyapp...hy-grains-are-unhealthy/

Robb Wolf @Tim Ferris
http://www.fourhourworkw.../19/paleo-diet-solution/

Lectins
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih..../PMC1115436/?tool=pubmed

A more of a "how to make grains good" type of post
http://wholehealthsource...ains-as-food-update.html

Immune reactions to Gliadin/Gluten in NON-Celiacs.
http://gut.bmj.com/content/56/6/889.extract

Leptin connection*
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6823/5/10

*I know set point theory is not yet totally proved but I find it extremly attractive.


I actually read a funny comment that people actually settled because they started to brew beer.



I agree on you on that but honestly that isn't a realistic scenario. Most people won't change their diet even if they are dying. And also fruit consumption is very minimal (to non existing) according to these guidelines (12 steps). Majority (60/70%) of your calories comes from long chain saturated fats and maybe addition 10 from middle chain saturated.



"Choosing plant foods because of their history without taking biochemistry into account is dogma, not science."

Thank you for being open minded. Actually I was reading PaNu today I said to myself that burnt would REALLY like this. I recommend his blog to you with all my heart. Give it an hour or two

Entropymancer:

Self-defense.

Animals can run away from it's predator but plant can't.

There is a war going out outside. Everything is trying to survive and so do plants. They have things called antinutrients (even brocolli, caulifower, etc. Potato has glycoalkaloids - poison ). Might not effect all people, might be defeated by certain methods but still it's not a black and white picture.

We would have to debate more specific as to protein/soluble fiber/a lot of vitamins/minerals but I'll take a wild guess and say that liver and or spinach offer more than the whole group. And that fiber is overrated.

Key here is lectins which are antinutrients. It's funny you mentioned minerals though

"The mineral content of legumes is generally high, but the bioavailability is poor due to the presence of phytate, which is a main inhibitor of Fe and Zn absorption."

Bioavailability of minerals in legumes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....ltsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

It seems though that the proper preparation of lentils can neutralize this.
http://wholehealthsource...al-food-vii-lentils.html

I don't agree with a lot of this content (carb phobia) but maybe you'll find something interesting (just ignore everyhing he says about carbohydrates)
http://www.marksdailyapp...com/beans-legumes-carbs/

EquaL Observer: If you have to implement only two things, I would definitly say go for grains and sugar exclusion.

My regime:

I eat in an 8 hour time frame (mostly 10AM - 6PM), so I'm fasting for ~16 hours most if not all days of the week. I eat two meals per day.

Spinach with heavy cream/cream fraiche
Ground meat with garlic, coconut milk, shrooms.
Anchovies and butter
Bone broth
Beef with cheese on top
Eggs in 345 versions
Liver with onions
Broccoli cream soup
Buttered cauliflower

I don't eat fruit, except maybe a banana or two per week and mostly hate vegetables. I'm reintroducing starch (potatoes, white rice) ease the glucose production.

Like said about, my target is to get 60/70% of my calorie from long chained saturated fat (butter, heavy cream, tallow) and some from medium chained saturated fat (coconut).

And just to be clear, I'm just the messenger/linker. People at those blogs have science down on levels I can't even imagine. Robb Wolf is a hardcore g333k.

Isn’t this just another version of low-carb diets that were popular 10-15 years ago? The name has changed, but the foods are basically the same – lots of meat and fats, few grains and sugars. Not my cup of tea.

I presume you are talking about the Atkins diet ? PaNu diet is not em, well something else first since talking with that nomenclature is utterly confusing and does no good.

I would like for you to read a post which might make you think a little bit differently on the whole low/high anything. It's basically saying we need to be specific. And of terms of food, here consumption of starch (type of carbohydrate) is encouraged in forms of potato, white (!) rice and some more exotic things (tapioca and others) so it isn't really a "low carb" but please read this and find out why these terms are bogus.

http://www.paleonu.com/p...utrient-part-i-fats.html

And it's no grains, no sugars.

Its going to take me a while to go through those links but first a few responses to some other points.



Not everyone is allergic to gluten. There are simple tests to find out as far as I know.



Plant secondary metabolites (what you are referring to as antinutrients) is one of my main interests. What you are saying is grossly misleading. Whoever is telling you this information is misleading you deeply.

Yes plants produce defense compounds. But in a lot of cases we have evolved mechanisms to deal with them. In a lot of cases they are beneficial as well. Thats why herbs and other plant based medicines work. In many cases these compounds are dangerous and can harm you even kill you. You cannot make over arching assumptions about such chemicals without talking about each one and its properties individually or refer to groups with similar properties. If you want to talk about specific compounds and their potential on human health I'd be happy to. But overarching statements about anti nutrients really are meaningless.

Also using fat as your primary source of energy is potentially risky. It leads to a process called keto genesis where by the body makes compounds to be used in the energy production from fat called ketone bodies (like acetone). Some societies primarily survive on such diets such as Inuits in Alaska but they also seem to have some differences in genes and metabolism. Its debatable how healthy this condition is or isn't.

Great stuff for SWIM, who is making some changes... thanks Shaolin.
BTW, is your diet supporting kung fu training? If so... nice to see CMA on the Nexus!
It seems the dangers of ketosis are contested (Wiki). I've got more to learn, and some groceries to buy!
L

Allergis is indeed a harsh word but sensitive to gluten ? Most blood work is not accurate enough, especially compared to fecal tests.
http://wholehealthsource...y-celiac-disease-is.html

Also how do you know that you are insensitivy ? From observing people around me being tired after a meal/"weird" stools/bloating aren't things that they would check at the doctor and from my experience wanting a celiac test gets an "Em, no, you don't have it" straight of the bat reply. Eliminating for 30 days and then checked seems like a good anectodal evidence that can be later rechecked if something correlates.

http://evolvify.com/the-...ical-journal-references/



I totally agree. My generalization was not appropriate. Since I have already linked you to death I would leave this for later.



Diabetic ketoacidosis is indeed a risk but ketosis (defined as very low carbohydrate entry ergo using ketones for energy) ? Also it's my understanding that the state of ketosis is depended on the glucose level and not on the fat intake. Anyway PaNu actually changed the view on that and now advocates for some starch to avoid this state. There are two recent articles Thoughts on ketosis 1/2.

Ketogenic diet is also used for epilepsy and cancer treatments.

I was tempted here but Richard Phillips Feynman said (paraphrased) that science ends when you're hiding data.

So about the dangers:
gastrointestinal cancer
mucus deficiency

I haven't really dwelved into that since I think if you eat enough starch, your glucose need will be fullfilled ergo no ketosis and well no ketosis

We had indeed Inuit and the Masai(no heart attacks) both awesome to CVD markers. Or were would be a better word since Twinkies are worldwide.

Lkosalfar: Just and avid reader and NOT a certified medical assistant. I just read a lot. Read those blogs directly since my summaries might not give them justice.

Exercise in limits in encouraged in all of those version of this nutritional regime.

And for all again. I'm just linking. I have no idea what are the real mechanism of FGF21(regulator of the ketotic state). This should not discourage you though, since first handed source are all under "additional/internet resources".

Hmm, I never get me enough nutrition talk. Does seem a bit like the low carb diets. Mainly, I think as long as one is getting fresh and local as much as possible, eating varied, and not too much, one's health should be up to par. I'm not generally against the grain foods, but I've read stuff against it. Read stuff against all kinds of stuff. Ask Brock Lesnar and he'll tell you he eats all meat. LOL, actually, googling that, he has apparently had mystery ailments for months now that seem to blamed on such a high protein diet.

Anyway. I might give this a shot. I've been wanting to get down to 90% raw like some around here, but this sounds like a good way to start cutting things out that I won't eat then either. Plus I like meat, and cream. We'll see how it goes.

I've always found nutrition freaks quite creepy. You go out trying to enjoy yourself some and there they come with their facts-n'-stuff to tell you what you must eat and what not. Bloody hell let me enjoy my beer!

If you wish to read more about an all meat diet, Stefansson (arctic explorer who lived with the Inuits) did it under medical supervision to prove the Inuit diet (being healthy).

As for protein toxicity Stefansson reported so called rabbit starvation. There are several theories but protein one is the most hm, attractive ?

During the meat diet his ratios were:
15-25 protein
75-85 fat
1-2 carbohydrate

Bone marrow, liver, .... Nose-to-tail eating basically.

Infundibulum: Vegan vs. paleo showdowns can be very entertaining Curses, accusations, threats, ... Especially on da internetz.

Lavos: I encourage you to give it 30 days with the whole regime with no cheats (no grains, very little fruit, no diary(actually that's too hardcore, just try without cheese/milk/yoghurt ergo just butter and cream))to see the most benefits.

"Allergis is indeed a harsh word but sensitive to gluten ? Most blood work is not accurate enough, especially compared to fecal tests"

Shaolin an allergy is not as severe usually as a sensitivity. As far as I know based on what doctors told me, sensitivities are the reactions to things that you are born with..allergies are the ones you aquire somehow. I was born with food sensitivities to dairy and beef..but I aquired allergies to certan fruits and nuts etc due to overeating them and having an innefficient gut lining at one point that would just let in too many food particles to my blood..so the same things were just flowing into my blood stream that shouldnt have been there and it would set off an immune responce.

Blood tests did work fine for me..skin prick tests are the ones that are shitty. Skin prick tests seem useless compared to blood tests. If you have allergies or sensitivities, living blood should react.

I see I was a little unclear. I meant that even if people aren't allergic to gluten they still might be sensitive to it.

Actually this might be question of semantincs since allergy is sometimes also called allergic sensitivity. I presumed sensitivity is the lesser of both.

EDIT: My poor choice of words it seems. Sensitivity = intolerance

"Consequently, we prefer the word "sensitivity" or "intolerance" to describe any reaction to a food, chemical or other substance that does not fit the classic "immediate type Ig E allergy" mechanism"

"A true food allergy requires the presence of IgE antibodies against the food, and a food intolerance does not."

Ergo intolerance is harder to diagnose than an allergy. I'm suspect most lactose intolerance people aren't allergic to lactose but still have problems.

Yes basically certain organs like your brain NEED glucose because fat doesn't cross blood brain barrier.


My main criticisms to this high in fat 'paleolithic' diet is the following. A diet high in saturated fats is not perfect either. There is a lot of evidence to indicate too much saturated fat causes all kinds of problems such as cardiovascular diseases. Although this is disputed, there are other associations like cancer. At the very least animal meat contains cholesterol and too much cholesterol is associated with cardiovascular disease. But some kind of health problem is associated with pretty much any nutrient you can think of when consumed in excess.

Things like phytic acid and lectins are not always as dangerous as some of the proponents of this diet are making them out to be. Also now I understand what you mean by anti nutrients: things that interfere with other nutrients digestion or absorption. Things like tannins and polyphenolic compounds in plants can also interfere with digestion but I wouldn't refer to them as anti nutrients its too general of a term for me because not all of their functions are negative or unhealthy. Its like calling something an antioxidant its too general because almost everything is either an antioxidant or an oxidant and that doesn't necessarily imply whether it is healthy or not. All food choices are a trade off so you can't just say "these compounds are unhealthy so eating foods with them is a bad idea", which is basically the argument all these people are making.

It is disputed by anthropologists and evolutionary biologists if some of these diet recommendations actually reflect paleolithic diets. There is also evidence that humans have adapted to certain agrarian diets.

Really all want to point out is that almost all nutritional advise suffers from some of the above mentioned short comings. Even if you could find out what the optimal level of a certain nutrient is for a population that might vary significantly both within and outside that population. There is however a lot of common sense nutritional advise that I think is important but diet fads are often largely unsubstantiated or based on simplistic views of human biochemistry.

^ thats what I try to tell all these people that think fruit is the devil..fruit is not like a candy bar..people tend to grossly exagerate and read all kinds of bullshit misinformation and then get all crazy thinking that the sugar content of fruit is somehow harmful..also as far as I could find, there is no evidence that fruit in general had less glucose content than it does today..although I have read that lots of inorganic fruits and seedless fruits have lower vitamine content.

Your brain needs fruit..it runs on glucose. All these people that are on high fat, low carb diets are insane. It's a fad and nothing more. I tried them at one point before I knew more about it. I felt like complete shit..like I was literally starving my bran to death. People dont realize how the western diet works. They eat way way too much saturated fats along with refined sugars. Fat is known to bind to insulin for a period of time and block it's efficacy to a degree. So you have large ammounts of saturated fats found in oily fried foods etc, along with giant glucose spikes from refined sugars in soft drinks etc..so with all that fat the insulin cannot effectivly deal with the high blood sugar content..it's both of these in combination that are a main problem in the modern western diet.

A high fruit diet filled with TONS of glucose is the best diet I have ever been on, and the one that seriousily helped me begin to counteract numerous health problem. I still get enough fats..I eat avacados, fresh coconut and sprout seeds and nuts..those fats feel fine to me personally. Heavy isolated oils like flax oil, olive oil etc dont feel nearly as good so I dont eat them anymore. I have done periods of a week or more where I ate only fruit and cut out all fats just to give my body a rest so it can deal with shit from my old eating habits, but in general I eat a high glucose containing fruit diet with some of the fat sources I mentioned and I feel great.

Cultured foods also..I started to add them back in..like small ammounts of kombucha and dairy free yoghurt made from cocnut flesh and blended fruits, cultured with acidophilus, and cashew and other nut cheeses.

And water..water is important. At least filter your tap water or find a source of clean spring water. You are made of the stuff.