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Where are we at a grass tek? Options
 
DoctorMantus
#21 Posted : 2/22/2011 2:50:55 PM

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I am sure that someone has looked over the Tek on Erowid what are peoples ideas on that? Useful or not
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SnozzleBerry
#22 Posted : 2/22/2011 4:34:30 PM

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DoctorMantus wrote:
I am sure that someone has looked over the Tek on Erowid what are peoples ideas on that? Useful or not

It yields a goo of unknown alkaloidal composition (potentially containing gramine and the other substances that people like Fractal Enchantment have hypothesized to be in there due to the subjective effects they experienced). Several members have achieved similar result to this extraction, afaik, using similar routes, but ideally, a "finalized" grass tek should yield clean, crystalline dmt, imo.
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Ginkgo
#23 Posted : 2/22/2011 6:04:43 PM

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jbark wrote:
How about posting an ID chart with descriptions and pics of all (or some of) the strains and species? If anyone is able to do that, it would help biology noobs like me who would love to start experimenting and contributing. Of course, I will do my own research, but it would be worth it to have a compiled resource here.

JBArk

Yes, that is one part of the rather huge amount of information I am currently compiling. Stay tuned. Smile
 
Touche Guevara
#24 Posted : 2/22/2011 11:50:33 PM
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Dagger wrote:
What if you separate dmt and gramine by liquifying dmt? You have teks to do that on this forum from mimosa. You can get a dmt liquid at 40-50C, then just scoop it out. Not sure how much gramine would remain inside the dmt liquid. Gramine has a melting point of 138-139C according to wikipedia.

-Place goo on metal mesh in a GVG
-Place GVG in near-boiling water for a time
-Collect actives from the glass?
 
jamie
#25 Posted : 2/23/2011 12:00:06 AM

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^isnt that the point of a sublimator?
 
jamie
#26 Posted : 2/23/2011 12:04:53 AM

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The most active grass I had was grass picked in december, just after a light snowfall..the grass was yellow and looked dead. I picked it anyway out of curiousiy and extracted it down to a goo..I smoked it. I got in one hit before I felt a pressure in the pineal gland, then a popping in my pineal gland, my nose began to run and I fell down and experienced what I can only compare to what I have read reguarding 5meoDMT. Grass picked while activly growing in spring and summer did not have this same effect..grass from the summer had mild tryptamine glowy feeling with mild visuals the few times I tried it.

I am guessing the cold temperatures caused whatever alkaloids were present to peak while the grass was dying/dormant..concidering this was arundinacea I would imagine some of it was 5meoDMT.
 
jbark
#27 Posted : 2/23/2011 12:55:39 AM

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Evening Glory wrote:
jbark wrote:
How about posting an ID chart with descriptions and pics of all (or some of) the strains and species? If anyone is able to do that, it would help biology noobs like me who would love to start experimenting and contributing. Of course, I will do my own research, but it would be worth it to have a compiled resource here.

JBArk

Yes, that is one part of the rather huge amount of information I am currently compiling. Stay tuned. Smile


Consider me tuned. I knew you'd be on the job.Very happy Looking forward to the info!!

Cheers,
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JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
Infundibulum
#28 Posted : 2/23/2011 3:32:28 PM

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Dagger wrote:
What if you separate dmt and gramine by liquifying dmt? You have teks to do that on this forum from mimosa. You can get a dmt liquid at 40-50C, then just scoop it out. Not sure how much gramine would remain inside the dmt liquid. Gramine has a melting point of 138-139C according to wikipedia.

This wouldn't probably work.

Gramine will dissolve inside the liquid dmt (::like dissolves like:: ). In a similar manner, you cannot sufficiently separate a mixture of crushed ice mixed with salt by melting the ice because the resulting water will dissolve and carry away a fair amount of salt.



Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
polytrip
#29 Posted : 2/23/2011 4:35:59 PM
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fractal enchantment wrote:
The most active grass I had was grass picked in december, just after a light snowfall..the grass was yellow and looked dead. I picked it anyway out of curiousiy and extracted it down to a goo..I smoked it. I got in one hit before I felt a pressure in the pineal gland, then a popping in my pineal gland, my nose began to run and I fell down and experienced what I can only compare to what I have read reguarding 5meoDMT. Grass picked while activly growing in spring and summer did not have this same effect..grass from the summer had mild tryptamine glowy feeling with mild visuals the few times I tried it.

I am guessing the cold temperatures caused whatever alkaloids were present to peak while the grass was dying/dormant..concidering this was arundinacea I would imagine some of it was 5meoDMT.

Yeah, phalaris arundinacea contains 5-MeO-DMT as well.

It seems that gramine is still the major problem. Apparently there is no easy tek to separate it from the wanted stuff.
As long as we don't have such a tek, i think grasses are a bit of a dead-end street in that they're no good replacement of chacruna or mimosa.

Breeding grass that's high in the right alkaloids isn't very realistic either if you're not willing to spent A LOT of money and time on it and experiment on yourself as well.

I think we have to look in another direction if we want to find a good replacement for mimosa or chacruna. In some areas, acacia's are the most obvious first choice, but in other places, growing you're own chacruna or other plants is probably the best alternative for now.
 
downwardsfromzero
#30 Posted : 2/23/2011 4:43:14 PM

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Re: removal of gramine.

A basic sublimator can be made using a cheap aspirator pump, a small Buchner filter flask, a rubber bung and test tube filled with ice.

Insert test tube through a suitably sized hole in the rubber bung (careful now!)
Place crude alkaloid mixture in bottom of Buchner flask.
Put bung into top of flask.
Fill test tube with ice.
Attach aspirator pump to cold water tap.
Connect vacuum outlet to sidearm of Buchner flask, using suitable tubing.
Turn on water supply.
Apply gentle heat to flask, no hotter than warm water ~35degC/do the maths for Fahrenheit.
Wait for crystals to form on test tube.
Turn off water supply.
Remove bung to collect crystals from outside of test tube.

A test tube with a sidearm is better than a Buchner flask if you can get one about 5-10mm bigger in diameter than the inner test tube that fits through the bung. Buchner flasks can stand up unaided though.




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downwardsfromzero
#31 Posted : 2/23/2011 4:51:04 PM

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It is possible to do a direct extraction from the grass into the human organism by chewing as a quid. It takes a good set of teeth and about an hour of jaw work. Effects are mild and the gramine is something of a problem as it starts to produce a headache shortly after the first subjective effects of tryptamines are felt, at least with the strain of Phalaris arundinacea that was assayed in this instance, in early September.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Virola78
#32 Posted : 3/6/2011 10:21:58 AM

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polytrip wrote:
...Breeding grass that's high in the right alkaloids isn't very realistic either if you're not willing to spent A LOT of money and time on it and experiment on yourself as well...


Well, it will take some time, but it doesnt have to be expensive, and i dont think one has to test on oneself.
Like benzyme suggested in the other thread https://www.dmt-nexus.me...px?g=posts&t=18255, post #9:
"... TLC/paper chrom are easy methods of characterizing the different alkaloids. once one gets the hang of this method, column chromatography is the next step...sample preparation... "

In that hread there is also a YouTube movie showing how to make simple TLC's using microsope slides and some simple, safe chems. If it is possible to profile the grasses than perhaps this will open doors (maybe separation tek.) Is the gramine in all the grasses? Is the profile dependent on growing environment and/or time of harvest? Does kitchen TLC/column allow for method of separation?

Bulk growing of grass is easy and cheap and simple, so is profiling (TLC/paper). It is well within reach of DIY kitchen chemistry. Setting up the whole things doesnt really take more time than a good extraction experiment, and the grass will grow by itself.


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Seraph
#33 Posted : 3/6/2011 3:54:45 PM

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I think Dagger's idea is good, someone should try that. Fractal Enhancement? You seem like someone who is in the position to try this out.

I thought of another idea, solvent solubilities may be a way to seperate gramine from DMT. Naphtha, heptane, acetone and all other kinds of solvents could be used because say the solubility of gramine in acetone might be like 100g/1ml and the solubility of DMT in acetone might be like 1g/1ml.
 
jamie
#34 Posted : 3/7/2011 7:39:49 PM

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this talk about gramine is great but its not really a realistic take on the whole thing..what about hordenine?..or all the other weird alkaloids present in the grass?..it's not just about gramine removal..people take about gramine headaches etc but really how do they even know its gramine and not hordenine or something else?

Il still work with the grass as much as I can until I can somehow isolate the more pleasurable psychedelic tryptamines I have experienced in the grass..but really we need a more in depth discussion here than just gramine removal.
 
endlessness
#35 Posted : 3/7/2011 9:35:58 PM

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Alkaloid information

Neither gramine nor hordenine freebase are soluble in pet ether (= aliphatic naphtha) so doing a simple naphtha/hexane/heptane recrystallization should take care of it (in theory.....)
 
jamie
#36 Posted : 3/8/2011 1:25:49 AM

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^ yeah I remember reading that and talking about it last year, but it was sort of unconfirmed speculation I thought at the time... If it really is the case, than thats great! Smile ...and I guess that is that then. I saw some wild arundinacea sprouts just starting yesterday so it's time to harvest and experiment...again.
 
jamie
#37 Posted : 3/8/2011 1:43:16 AM

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We also need to remember that alot of the spice found in leafy sources such as grasses is present in it's N-oxide form..which is not very soluble in naptha, if at all..so a fuller spectrum extraction could be carried out first, and then a zinc reduction on that..then naptha pull/rextalizations..
 
Virola78
#38 Posted : 3/13/2011 9:37:44 AM

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Dagger wrote:
So how will we know that we have removed gramine and hordinine? Any tests that can be done without scientific equipment?


Yes. It is in benzymes post about DIY Thin Layer Chromatography. That method can be used to get a pattern on a paper. When dmt is identified in that pattern, then other bands/spots are indicative of other molecules. If the method is perfected it could allow for results that are reproducible and comparible. I think after analysis it would be possible to identify gramine and/or hordinine (if they are there.)

I agree with benzyme chromatography is very promising. Chromatography deserves more attention, understanding and testing.
Not only for having a better look at the grasses. In the long run it can be applied to and would boost many nexus research i think.

Would be interested to know what surface of grass would be required to yield enough samples to test and develop the paper chromatography method suggested by Traveller and benzyme in the other thread.

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Seraph
#39 Posted : 4/6/2011 7:58:16 PM

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Is anyone working on the grass tek?
 
SnozzleBerry
#40 Posted : 4/7/2011 2:44:00 PM

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Seraph wrote:
Is anyone working on the grass tek?

Probably not...I mean...that's why we have a thread on it...cuz nobody's working on it Wink

(I have some brachystachys germinating atm)
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