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Where are we at a grass tek? Options
 
Ginkgo
#1 Posted : 2/17/2011 10:14:07 AM

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Hey everyone!

Spring is around the corner, so is the growth of my several species of Phalaris grass. I am therefore continuing with the research I have been doing on Phalaris and related grasses that contain DMT and other entheogenic tryptamines. This spring and summer I am planning on doing extensive work to come up with a feasible tek for using these grasses as a source for our beloved entheogens.

As to now I have only focused on researching and compiling an overview of what is already known, I am at square one with an actual extraction. However, I know that several people here and elsewhere have done some experiments. In that regards I am highly interested in getting all the results of all of these experiments. So if you have tried an extraction or know someone that has, please post your procedure down to every tiny bit of detail.

This is so I don't have to reinvent the wheel, there's no point for me in trying things that already has proved to not work as intended. When I together with you wonderful people, or someone else, have created a feasible tek, it will be published it together with the extensive information I have researched and compiled and continue to do.

Please keep this thread to only contain discussion concerning actual attempts at extraction techniques. What doesn't work? Why? What could work? Why? Keep it detailed and scientific!

Thanks a lot, your help will help us grow closer to a source of DMT that everyone in nearly every region can have in their own garden! Smile
 

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downwardsfromzero
#2 Posted : 2/20/2011 8:05:58 PM

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I was planning to do a post on an extraction from the flowers of the common reed Phragmites australis, although the method I've looked has not been completed yet so watch this space. They don't flower until August/September so there's no hurry (unless you live in the Southern hemisphere of course).




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jamie
#3 Posted : 2/20/2011 8:21:12 PM

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me too evening glory Smile

I will soon start harvesting wild arundinacea and be trying various teks all summer. I have no sublimator so that def something I need to work around. Like I have said before in other threads, there is something in this grass that is very stimulating and phen like after the (mild)tryptamine effects start to wear off..there is def active tryptamines in there though. Im basically determined to do this until I figure out a way to get a decently pure product of 5meo or DMT from the stuff.

 
DoctorMantus
#4 Posted : 2/21/2011 3:22:35 AM

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ill will be doing the same, in the lands of Hawaii ill be working on it and posting any info i find out.
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Dorge
#5 Posted : 2/21/2011 7:50:53 AM

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You folks are our future.... I salute you.
If you guys have good documentation of your results we might be able to publish it at esoteric Pharma!
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dreamer042
#6 Posted : 2/21/2011 1:18:50 PM

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Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

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Dorge
#7 Posted : 2/21/2011 5:42:54 PM

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Good point.

I would like to know, what is it we are curretly looking for. What is it we need to know? To make the grass more of a focus. Is it a consitent strain with pure dmt and that's all?
Which strains do people have to work with?
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Ginkgo
#8 Posted : 2/21/2011 5:55:35 PM

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Dorge wrote:
Good point.

I would like to know, what is it we are curretly looking for. What is it we need to know? To make the grass more of a focus. Is it a consitent strain with pure dmt and that's all?
Which strains do people have to work with?

What first pops into my head:
* Knowledge of what species actually have enough entheogenic tryptamines.
* Knowledge of certain strains or cultivars that have even more or otherwise works better.
* A good extraction tek that doesn't take too long time to yield a pure product.
* A feasible way of totally removing the gramine.
* A feasible way of separating the DMT, 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenine.
 
burnt
#9 Posted : 2/21/2011 6:05:44 PM

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Does anyone have any information in general about when is the tryptamine content highest in these grasses? After flowering? Before flowering? During seed formation or dropping? Etc. I think this information would be helpful in selecting right time of year to go searching.
 
Ginkgo
#10 Posted : 2/21/2011 7:20:25 PM

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burnt wrote:
Does anyone have any information in general about when is the tryptamine content highest in these grasses? After flowering? Before flowering? During seed formation or dropping? Etc. I think this information would be helpful in selecting right time of year to go searching.

You may come closer to an answer with this excerpt from the text I'm writing on these grasses:

The only part of the grass that has high enough concentrations of tryptamines to allow extraction is the leaves. More specifically, leaves of young age are by far the preferred source.

The tryptamine content is generally much higher per gram in very young plants than in older ones. Keep in mind that while the percentage of tryptamines will drop as the plant grows to maturity; the total amount of tryptamines per plant will increase. It is, however, much less time-consuming to do extractions on plant matter with high alkaloid concentrations than with medium to low concentrations. Using plants that have not reached maturity is therefore strongly advised. The color of the leaves is often a good indicator of their age – they tend to have a stronger green color when young compared to the more pale color older plants often show.

There is also strong evidence that the first regrowth after cutting the plant produces high amounts of alkaloids, higher concentrations than later regrowths. This correlates well with the knowledge that stressing the plant causes higher alkaloid production, as we explored in the last chapter. In order to obtain high amount of alkaloids, new plants should have their leaves cut off, and then the new leaves that grow out again should be harvested before they reach maturity.

There is evidence that the peak of DMT synthesis occurs as early as day 8 in the lives of Phalaris seedlings. After this, the production flattens out at about 16 days of age. This further supports the idea that very young plants are the best source for DMT. To support this claim, biosynthesis of gramine (which follows a similar pathway to the biosynthesis of DMT) in the related species Hordeum vulgare is found to nearly completely stop 40 days after planting. In other words, plants not much older than a month is the best source to use for an extraction.
 
burnt
#11 Posted : 2/21/2011 7:50:11 PM

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Awesome thats exactly the kind of summary i am looking for. i have a lot of literature on the topic but didn't feel like going through it all so thanks a lot!
 
Ginkgo
#12 Posted : 2/21/2011 8:08:55 PM

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Awesome, I'm glad I could be of help! If you have a lot of literature on the topic, is it any possibility that you could offer me a .zip-file with the files? It would be of tremendous help in my work, as I don't have much access to such articles (although I have some).
 
burnt
#13 Posted : 2/21/2011 8:54:52 PM

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if your looking for something specific i could upload to literature section
 
MelCat
#14 Posted : 2/21/2011 9:19:52 PM

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Evening Glory wrote:
There is evidence that the peak of DMT synthesis occurs as early as day 8 in the lives of Phalaris seedlings. After this, the production flattens out at about 16 days of age. This further supports the idea that very young plants are the best source for DMT.


This is pretty awesome when you think about it.

All you have to do is germinate/plant the seeds (which shouldn't take too long right? 3-4 days?) and wait 8 days, trim the leaves, wait another few days and trim the 2nd batch of leaves. Then allow what's left to flower so you have more seeds to start over.

I'm going to start looking for a good source for some phalaris aquatica seeds.

Thanks for the info!
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polytrip
#15 Posted : 2/21/2011 9:24:26 PM
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A while ago i read at a dutch site devoted to ayahuasca, that some people use some sort of juicer to squeeze the juice out of freshly harvested grasses. Apparently these grassjuicemachines are popular among people who're into microbiotic food or something.

One teacup of juice is supposed to be equal to somewhere around 50 grams of chacruna.

Maybe, simmered-down grassjuice could be a good starting basis for further extractions. It seems you'd have a product with a very high alkaloidpercentage.

I don't know if a difference in boilingpoints would be a good way to separate the spice from the gramine; evaporate one of the two?
 
biopsylo
#16 Posted : 2/21/2011 10:41:58 PM

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^^ yeah wheatgrass and barley grass is yum.

pretty sure they usually use commercial ss juicers, the same ones used for carrots, apples, ginger, etc.

they do a great job of breaking the cell wall.


also, downwardsfromzero:
just thought i should mention this here because i dont think i actually posted my results from an extraction attempt on the rhizomes of p.australis last summer.
roughly a kilo of fresh dried rhizomes from early on in the season were dug, cut with shears, and soaked in vinegar ala blab.
there didn't seem to be anything to speak of in the end. kinda bummer. would be really interested to hear how a flower extraction goes.

good luck yall this is great to hear, and a very important venture.
now im gonna go mow the lawn.
 
dreamer042
#17 Posted : 2/21/2011 10:58:25 PM

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a hand crank wheatgrass juicer really isn't very expensive

http://www.amazon.com/We...00QTLN10/ref=pd_sbs_k_3

You can usually find used ones on ebay really cheap
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Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
dreamer042
#18 Posted : 2/21/2011 11:02:16 PM

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Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
jbark
#19 Posted : 2/22/2011 2:36:33 PM

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How about posting an ID chart with descriptions and pics of all (or some of) the strains and species? If anyone is able to do that, it would help biology noobs like me who would love to start experimenting and contributing. Of course, I will do my own research, but it would be worth it to have a compiled resource here.

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SnozzleBerry
#20 Posted : 2/22/2011 2:49:55 PM

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jbark wrote:
How about posting an ID chart with descriptions and pics of all (or some of) the strains and species? If anyone is able to do that, it would help biology noobs like me who would love to start experimenting and contributing. Of course, I will do my own research, but it would be worth it to have a compiled resource here.

JBArk

I think this is in the wiki? If not it's definitely on wikipedia...granted, the %alks may be speculation, I don't remember the sources and I haven't looked at the grasses pages in a minute.
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