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Bufotenine Extraction Options
 
lorax
#121 Posted : 12/24/2008 11:43:09 AM

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the yellowish stuff seems to have settled to the bottom over night and didnt leave the beaker when pouring the white cloudy part of the toluene off. it stuck to the bottom. he is now evaporating... will tell results in a little while.
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Jorkest
#122 Posted : 12/24/2008 4:39:05 PM

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nice...SWIM is going to continue the xylene extraction..had do sleepRazz...he is going to continue to dry the seeds..and once that is done he will boil with xylene..
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
#123 Posted : 12/24/2008 5:29:35 PM

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do you think it would work if after the xylene boil..you could add FASA to drop the bufo faster?! and then freebase it..and then pull with the MEK:heptane
it's a sound
 
69ron
#124 Posted : 12/24/2008 8:00:11 PM

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obliguhl wrote:
Quote:
Tell me what you think.


The high amount of Xylene is somehow impractical. 1000ml costs 80$ where I live ...so you'd need to spend 150$ alone for defatting.


Holy crap!!! $150 per liter!!!! That's super expensive. Here 3.7 liters costs about $15.

lorax wrote:
ok.. SWIM tried crystalizing from toluene. he dissolved about 2.5g of dark goo in 200ml toluene. after he heated, poured it off and cooled it the toluene turned from clear yellow to cloudy whitish yellow. he has now let it sit in the beaker over night.. its still cloudy but nothing has fallen out. this is lab grade toluene. it doesnt seem to work. or can it sometimes take longer for the crystals to fall out? how long does it take with xylene?


Did you actually boil the toluene or was it just hot?

With xylene it needs to boil. Hot xylene does not work.

With xylene, you can see small crystals within about 2 hours. Usually there's a ring of crystals just above the xylene on the sides of the beaker, the rest are on the bottom. They might appear yellowish if the initial extraction is not very clean.

lorax wrote:
the yellowish stuff seems to have settled to the bottom over night and didnt leave the beaker when pouring the white cloudy part of the toluene off. it stuck to the bottom. he is now evaporating... will tell results in a little while.


Don't discard anything yet. It could be that the bufotenine already crashed out and is mixed up with some of the other crap on the bottom and sides of the beaker. Or possibly boiling toluene doesn’t dissolve bufotenine like boiling xylene does, in which case the bufotenine would still be in the initial extract.

Jorkest wrote:
do you think it would work if after the xylene boil..you could add FASA to drop the bufo faster?! and then freebase it..and then pull with the MEK:heptane


I don't know. SWIM doesn't have anymore fumaric acid to play around with.
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obliguhl
#125 Posted : 12/24/2008 10:51:27 PM

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Quote:
Holy crap!!! $150 per liter!!!! That's super expensive. Here 3.7 liters costs about $15.


I've just found a cheaper source...25$/l Very happy
Still nothing like your 4$/l but a start.
 
Jorkest
#126 Posted : 12/24/2008 11:29:01 PM

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bufo fumarate does drop out of xylene nicely
it's a sound
 
Nanaki
#127 Posted : 12/25/2008 12:19:33 AM

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Jorkest wrote:
bufo fumarate does drop out of xylene nicely


How would you modify 69ron's 4 steps to make the fumarate instead of the freebase?
Nanaki, of course is a fictional video game character. He never does drugs that would alter consciousness. He only thinks he does.
 
Jorkest
#128 Posted : 12/25/2008 1:03:46 AM

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well when its time for it too cool..just add FASA..and it drops out very fast

it's a sound
 
lorax
#129 Posted : 12/25/2008 3:23:14 PM

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after evaporation SWIM was left off with the same blackish goo.. it got just a little lighter but nothing of much notice. SWIM needs some new xylene!
I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
 
rellik
#130 Posted : 12/25/2008 4:48:10 PM

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wow, so much new info to catch up on! amazing work

should people be concerned using an open flame to boil xylene? could the fumes be a potential fire or explosion hazard?
i guess a hotplate would work best
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Jorkest
#131 Posted : 12/25/2008 7:06:53 PM

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yes the stuff is dangerous..and SWIM noticed that the fumes SINK..so you dont want a flame under it...scary!

SWIM found that after he had dried his bufo/calcium hydroxide mix...and added the xylene..it all turned DARK brown..not what he was expecting..and instead of filtering off the xylene and putting fresh stuff in before he boiled it..he just boiled it..but he doesnt think that was supposed to happen...
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
#132 Posted : 12/26/2008 5:45:15 AM

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so then he just FASA'd the bufo out of it..and hes gonna try to purify it some more
it's a sound
 
endlessness
#133 Posted : 12/28/2008 10:23:44 PM

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how could SWIM extract bufotenine (and bufotenine n-oxide? any info on that?) from ready made snuff?

SWIM knows he could get acetone and different bases, but didnt see xylene yet (and even less MEK or DCM).. There was also a mix of toluene and methanol.

any chances there or should SWIM look for more products?
 
Jorkest
#134 Posted : 12/28/2008 11:23:25 PM

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acetone pulls it really well..if you can get some heptane or something similar you may be able to do the same thing as the MEK:heptane formula with acetone and heptane or hexane..you just have to find the right mixture
it's a sound
 
endlessness
#135 Posted : 12/29/2008 2:42:40 PM

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Ok so SWIM found some xylene.

What is the safest way to boil xylene? SWIM doesnt have hotplate or something of the sort..

considering SWIM has ready-made snuff (which should be basic), would it work to simply make a few acetone pulls and evapping, and then dissolving the resulting goo (SWIM supposes) in boiling xylene, separating the boiling xylene from undissolved goo (should be only impurities right?), and then evapping it again?
 
Jorkest
#136 Posted : 12/29/2008 3:36:11 PM

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yes that will work..but you wont need to evap the xylene...when it cools down it should slowly start to form crystals that drop out of the solution
it's a sound
 
endlessness
#137 Posted : 12/29/2008 3:59:23 PM

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excellent, thanks!

will the final product be reasonably pure?

how can SWIM boil xylene? (I think it was 144 degrees). What kind of store can SWIM look for some sort of hotplate thing, and for what use is it normally for?

also.. SWIM will measure the pH of the snuff, maybe the storage changed it.. BTW, any info on bufotenine n-oxide? whether its active, whats the solubility, and so on? Considering snuff is a finely powdered material, I guess its reasonable to assume some bufotenine has oxidized
 
69ron
#138 Posted : 12/29/2008 8:01:13 PM

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If you did an A/B extraction that included a defat, then when the xylene cools, nearly pure bufotenine crystals will form. They are about 95% pure.

A xylene boil used for an acetone extract made from snuff will not produce a pure product. It should however get rid of all the toxins. It will be much more pure than the initial acetone extract.

Because you are using snuff, I would defat the prepared snuff using cold xylene before extracting with acetone. Freebase bufotenine is practically insoluble in room temperature xylene, so a defat with xylene prior to a xylene boil will dramatically clean up your final product. I would do 3 defats at least.

Here are a few things to remember about this xylene boil purification technique:

1 - DO NOT BOIL THE XYLENE ON A FIRE BURNER. That’s a good way to start a fire. Xylene is flammable. You need an electric hotplate.

2 - Boil your extract in the xylene for 5 minutes, and mix it a few times. Boiling any less than 5 minutes is ineffective. Pour the xylene off while boiling hot.

3 – Let the xylene cool down for at least 4 hours, then pour out the xylene leaving being your bufotenine stuck to the bottom and sides of the container. Re-use the xylene to get more bufotenine out of your extract.

Bufotenine is practically insoluble in xylene at room temperature (less than 0.03 g/100 ml), but very soluble in boiling xylene (over 1.5 g/100 ml). The ember toxins are insoluble in xylene at all temperatures. So by boiling in xylene you get rid of all the more polar toxins in the extract. If the extract was not defatted, the xylene boil will extract fats and oils as well as bufotenine. However, most of these oils and fats will stay in the xylene when it cools, while the bufotenine will precipitate out.

You may get pretty impure results the first time you do the xylene boil technique if you did not defat the material beforehand. If this is the case, defat your impure results with cold xylene. The impurities should dissolve in the xylene, the bufotenine will not. Discard the xylene and save the solids. Then repeat the xylene boil process with fresh xylene and you should get fairly pure bufotenine. The crystals should look white or slightly yellow or slightly tan, dry and brittle, not sticky at all. There should be no richly colored amber material and no dark brown or black material preset, if there is then repeat the xylene defat and repeat the xylene boil.

After pouring off the xylene, the crystals can be dried in an oven at 250 F.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
Jorkest
#139 Posted : 12/29/2008 8:02:29 PM

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the product should be reasonably pure if you start with fairly pure bufotenine..or if you defat your seeds...

usually you can get those electrc hotplates at a appliance store..they shouldnt be too expensive
it's a sound
 
endlessness
#140 Posted : 12/29/2008 9:42:22 PM

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Jorkest wrote:
the product should be reasonably pure if you start with fairly pure bufotenine..or if you defat your seeds...

usually you can get those electrc hotplates at a appliance store..they shouldnt be too expensive


what are they used for? food? How accurate are they (or should they be) in the temperature?

the product SWIM would use would be ready based snuff. To defat SWIM would have to first acidify it, defat, dry, basify, then extract.. Its a lot more steps

SWIM reasoned that if just straight acetone extraction, evap and then xylene boil wouldnt be pure enough, SWIM could try doing that experimenting with mixing naphtha and acetone in the resulting impure product. How does that sound?
 
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