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Changa: A smoking blend containing Ayahuasca and other herbs Options
 
Dorge
#41 Posted : 2/18/2011 10:14:17 PM

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endlessness wrote:
There must be an ideal amount of water content in alcohol that would pull most alkaloids and not much impurity. Also temperature will be a variable to test. Betwen changing temperature and changing amount of water content, there must be an optimum point somewhere, of effective harmala and little impurity being disolved.



Haha! You took my bait endless!! I knew you were going tomsay that when i posted that! Pleased
I prefer to buy 99.9% ethanol with the license I bought from the liquor control board. The lab grade ethanol works fantastic and it evaps that fast. I prefer that but found that everclear works just as good. Some times I even redistill my ethanol to make it higher proof... I've also been thinking of using my still as the method for evaping my solvent. I could do as I have been doing and just attach the top of my still to my rice cooker, recapturing the solvent... So I can reuse it!
Dorge is cooperatively owned and cooperatively run by various hyperspacial entities working as a collabertive sentience project for the betterment of sentient exploration.

Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/


 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
Dorge
#42 Posted : 2/18/2011 10:41:44 PM

Chen Cho Dorge


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Check out tree top home distillation. Thy have the model swim uses.
Dorge is cooperatively owned and cooperatively run by various hyperspacial entities working as a collabertive sentience project for the betterment of sentient exploration.

Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/


 
chocobeastie
#43 Posted : 2/20/2011 9:32:00 AM

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EDITED: included a warning about MAOI's and MDMA and SSRI's, an understanding of the power of DMT, a little paragrah about how some swear by the vaporgenie, some more precise wording here and there and a little bit of editing.
 
Eluna
#44 Posted : 2/24/2011 1:00:57 PM

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Smile
 
joedirt
#45 Posted : 3/5/2011 8:34:26 PM

Not I

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Dorge wrote:
I actually learned the 10x caapi leaf extract from choco here years ago on another forum.
And endless as i mentioned before if you want to prove that it's more functional to do an a/b extract get a post going to provide some evidence from people doing qualitative bioassays from both methods. You could probably just take some leaf infused by adding some of flowing visions stuff to it and compare.
Also just infusing caapi leaf alone with out and ethanolmbased 10x extract promotes a definite increase in duration and effect as well as the ability to continue smoking over a prolonged period of time with a tolerance build up. Which cannot be accomplished as has been proven by just enhancing any ol smoking blend with spice. The alkaliods in the caapi leaf are unchanged in an ehanol extract and are the same as they are in just smoking unconcentrated leaf. So what does that tell us?!
Yes chemistry is awesome but some times it feels like people make things way toom omplicated here...

Also I think I would agree with him on the notion that dmt extracted from different plants may very well provide a different experience, it may not be rational, and possibly it's just knowing that makes the difference, but I think that if there is one things that entheogens has taught me is that the rational doesn't always cut it...



I have just finished said qualitative bioassay. The 10X surprisingly works so-so. When I mixed in alkaloids from caapi vine A/B extract my after glow literally lasted a day and a half....it was a little stimulant like and I had a hard time sleeping two nights in a row.....but I'm a person that can't sleep after a cup of coffee at 8 a.m.. See my blend below, but I'd estimate that during this session I inhaled 50mgs of spice and 25mgs harmalas.

I used a very week changa mix.
500mgs caapi leaf / (or 500mgs 10x ethanol extracted caapi leaf)
100mgs spice,
55 mgs free base harmala alkaloids / (or no harmalas)

Essentially there is no comparison in my book. Use the extracted alkaloids. I'm going to experiment with a lower amount myself to see if I can keep the after glow but drop some of the stimulant effects of harmline. BTW I'm not saying the 10x doesn't work. It does seem to potentiate the effects beyond what I'd consider to be placebo. I've also read reports of others smoking bowls of plain caapi before spice and getting the potentiation..so there is some subjective evidence that either the slat forms can be vaporized or there is some portion of free base alkaloids in the leaf. My bet is the salt form can be vaporised...has anyone tried to vaporize salted harmalas?


Also when I tried to make this blend it was extremely hard to get the harmalas back into solution. I ended up heating it in IPA for about 30 minutes to get it to dissolve. Acetone and ethanol did not work at all for this.


Also as for the differences in dmt from plant to plant. There is no difference what-so-ever if you fully extract and purify the material. Now if you want to talk about crude extracts from plants or different plants in brews then absolutely I can believe there is a huge difference. But DMT is a molecule specified by a specific formula and atom connectivity. Period.


BTW chocobeastie if you really are the inventor of Changa...I LOVE YOU. Thank you so much for this.

However I do agree with others about warnings and precautions...which I see you updated.


If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
 
actualfactual
#46 Posted : 3/5/2011 8:45:25 PM

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I'm going to try extracted freebase harmalas next time but 10x caapi vine extract infused onto caapi leaf 100% certainly has an effect that is not attributable to placebo in my experiments.

I'll compare and contrast the two sometime in the future and may actually make 10x and do an a/b afterward like suggested to see if I can get any additional harmalas to crash out.
 
Dorge
#47 Posted : 3/5/2011 10:19:54 PM

Chen Cho Dorge


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That's great it worked so well for you, it doesn't seem worth the work to me personally. A long after glow sounds nice, but your right abot trying to dissolve the alks, not easy. Swims tried that with ones from flowing visions.

You know some people use homeopathic medicine and it works really well. When one really looks at homeopathic medicine there is no really pharmacological activity, it's basically magic. It's energy medicine. There is a signature. When some one says that there is a difference between plant derived spices it's a belief, just as it is your belief that there is no difference. You might not beleive in homeopathic medicine, butthat doesn't explain why it works for thousands of people. It's great you don't think that there are differences. have you tried it from different sources? Even if you havnt I believe your experiences are limited by what you believe or disbeleive.
Dorge is cooperatively owned and cooperatively run by various hyperspacial entities working as a collabertive sentience project for the betterment of sentient exploration.

Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/


 
joedirt
#48 Posted : 3/5/2011 10:36:07 PM

Not I

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Dorge wrote:
That's great it worked so well for you, it doesn't seem worth the work to me personally. A long after glow sounds nice, but your right abot trying to dissolve the alks, not easy. Swims tried that with ones from flowing visions.

You know some people use homeopathic medicine and it works really well. When one really looks at homeopathic medicine there is no really pharmacological activity, it's basically magic. It's energy medicine. There is a signature. When some one says that there is a difference between plant derived spices it's a belief, just as it is your belief that there is no difference. You might not beleive in homeopathic medicine, butthat doesn't explain why it works for thousands of people. It's great you don't think that there are differences. have you tried it from different sources? Even if you havnt I believe your experiences are limited by what you believe or disbeleive.



Dorge I think the long afterglow had more to do with my low tolerance to stimulants. I seriously don't metabolize them like other people. One cup of coffee at 8 am will disrupt my sleep. If it's a strong cup I can feel lingering effects the next day....I shit you not. Also It wasn't like a full on after glow, but I was in a noticeably good mood the next day, especially since I didn't sleep well that night. Shrooms often have this effect as well.

DMT (N,N di-Methyl Tryptamine is a molecule strucuture nothing more...it is what it is and it's not what it's not.

I'll make this debate simple though. I believe that if you believe a certain spice will act different than another spice then it almost certainly will, but this has everything to do with mental state when the molecule is injested and zero to do with actual molecular differences. There are people that swear by brand name medicines over generics, but in every single clinical trial they've been shown to be the same. The power of belief is very strong. So...in effect if you believe there are differences then they may very well feel different to you.
If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
 
actualfactual
#49 Posted : 3/5/2011 11:53:43 PM

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Quote:
DMT (N,N di-Methyl Tryptamine is a molecule strucuture nothing more...it is what it is and it's not what it's not.


Indeed... I made my changa with a mix of clear, white, yellow, and orange DMT crystal.. I know though that DMT is DMT is DMT.. the only difference is the impurities..

If we mentally a attribute a difference to them our trip may come our differently due only to to the power of suggestion (or possibly the "plant spirit" depending on who you talk to)
 
Dorge
#50 Posted : 3/6/2011 3:46:48 AM

Chen Cho Dorge


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aloneits wrote:
Quote:
DMT (N,N di-Methyl Tryptamine is a molecule strucuture nothing more...it is what it is and it's not what it's not.

(or possibly the "plant spirit" depending on who you talk to)


And that's who you are talking to... I studied with an ayahuascero for 6 years. I don't need the patronizing idea that things are because I believe it either. You both can keep believing what ever you like I could care less.
Dorge is cooperatively owned and cooperatively run by various hyperspacial entities working as a collabertive sentience project for the betterment of sentient exploration.

Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/


 
endlessness
#51 Posted : 3/6/2011 9:27:04 AM

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Hey guys, lets chill down the town please, we're not working against each other here! Joe gave his perspective on it.. Maybe he could have said "the way I see it" before that sentence to soften it up and not be as 'absolute' claim (though its imo pretty reasonable view, considering how testable his claim is ), but re-reading his post I dont think he meant it in a patronizing way.

Actually I would say it goes the other way too, this "i studied with an ayahuasquero" and "i could care less" sounds quite contentious and patronizing imo. Cant we just disagree and explain why we disagree instead of taking a combative tone here?

I mean this constructively with good intentions hope Im not just further generating negative vibes here.
 
Dorge
#52 Posted : 3/10/2011 7:44:40 PM

Chen Cho Dorge


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I am constantly insulted by people who present other peoples beliefs as inferior in any way. If you want to support that sort of behaviour here that's a shame. But it occurs frequently. I've noticed a consitant lack of respect to individual beleifs with little moderation there. It's become very tiring and has made me less and less interested in participating in this site.
Dorge is cooperatively owned and cooperatively run by various hyperspacial entities working as a collabertive sentience project for the betterment of sentient exploration.

Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/


 
actualfactual
#53 Posted : 3/10/2011 7:55:25 PM

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Dorge it seems you are actually saying that science is somehow inferior and your belief system is correct? I don't see anyone disrespecting your beliefs only sharing different ones. If you are comfortable with your own ideas why do you even care what others think?

Opinions are like assholes we all got one <3
 
chocobeastie
#54 Posted : 7/3/2011 5:47:14 AM

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Edited this document and made a few small changes to grammar and content.

Put up this blogger site so people could share this information more easily.

http://changadmt.blogspot.com

 
tetra
#55 Posted : 7/3/2011 1:41:21 PM

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actualfactual wrote:


Opinions are like assholes we all got one <3


Not true. You forget about our colostomy bag friends. Some people are born without an asshole.
The Shift is About to Hit the Fan
 
Dorge
#56 Posted : 7/3/2011 6:07:15 PM

Chen Cho Dorge


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tetra wrote:
actualfactual wrote:


Opinions are like assholes we all got one <3


Not true. You forget about our colostomy bag friends. Some people are born without an asshole.


I had mine removed to prevent aliens from taking over my mind during hyperspace forays.

Nice to see your new site choco! I will put a link to it on the changa site.
Dorge is cooperatively owned and cooperatively run by various hyperspacial entities working as a collabertive sentience project for the betterment of sentient exploration.

Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/


 
rOm
#57 Posted : 7/3/2011 9:05:02 PM

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Changa <3 and for love's sake !! CHANGA !!!!!
the 8 bliss
Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
tele
#58 Posted : 7/4/2011 9:23:14 AM
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Good post, but I quite don't agree with this statement:

Quote:
However, for that fully immersive experience, most people generally need from 50mg to even as much as 150mg DMT - and most people find this sort of amount difficult to smoke in a freebase pipe.

I would more like agree with 25mg to 60mg, smoked properly from a VG or a GVG.
 
rOm
#59 Posted : 7/4/2011 12:11:35 PM

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150mg is if you smoalk changa in spliffs eventually. Not as tele point out, smoked properly in a good delivery system.
Or they do'nt know their changa isn't exhaust yet.
Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
chocobeastie
#60 Posted : 7/6/2011 2:20:11 PM

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In the good old days of freebase glass pipes or bongs when the crystal in wedged in between herbs, these are the amounts of DMT that were used. Most people, are still using these methods and most of them are not going to buy a VG anytime soon I can tell you!
 
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