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I began using the spice in the form of ayahuasca a few months ago, and have been using it pretty regularly (2-3X/week) for a while now. I was recently confronted by some friends (who have never used psychedelics) because they were worried about me. They said ive changed a lot, and they miss the old me. I became defensive, and explained it was helping me grow as a person. ill try to be brief with my situation.

two years ago my father killed himself. He had reached out during his depression leading up to the suicide, and i didnt take his problems seriously. We worked together, and were laid off at the same time. I was too selfish to try and ease his pain, and i felt that the way he died was to say "YOU DID THIS, LOOK AT WHAT YOU'VE DONE." he killed himself at our home, while i was home. i was the one to find the body in the trunk of his car, with a rifle wound to the head. the spice called my name as to ease my guilt, and its been great in that respect. I have since forgiven myself, and now feel as though i love ALL people. i am kind to all strangers, and go out of my way to tell friends and family i love them regularly. i have since found a girl i care for, who without ayahuasca sessions would have never let my guard down towards her. worth noting is ive never been in a relationship, only flings for a few months. im 28 years old.

the newfound guilt bestowed on me from friends got me thinking. Since i began using ayahuasca, i finally found faith in god. I dont follow any organized religion, but do believe their is truth within their texts, albeit it clouded in hidden agendas, exaggeration, and mythology. The one thing that bothers me is the tale of the forbidden fruit. The bible speaks of "eating from the tree of knowledge". I wouldn't have had found my spirituality without the spice, and realize why this would be forbidden. i imagine god doesnt want us to find him through a shortcut to enlightenment. I feel as though ive pressed fast forward on mental development, and cheated gods plans for us by using the spice. I rationalize that its on the earth, and this same forbidden fruit logic could be applied to most all drugs such as peyote, mushrooms, cannabis, and most others.

So please nexus, tell me how you justify your spice usage? are we cheating god? does the forbidden fruit rule no longer apply in modern times? Thank you in advance. I dont post much, but i visit here daily and truly appreciate all your wisdom.

I believe the forbidden fruit to be at its most fundamental level.. some controlling bullshit.
Take your cake and eat it. You answer to no one but yourself and nature... you are nature.

Just my 2cents.
Although I did ponder if it was also a tale used to describe the consciousness expanding enough so that humans may become lucid more then other animals, and thus evolve using technology which helped us to make such a huge mess of things.

Its all in the subjective interpretation. Make of it what you will.

I did wonder how I would continue with normal life after my first DMT experience, well that was 4 or 5 years ago and I am doing just fine.
Chop Wood, Fetch Water.

Namaste good traveler.

ur karma led u to the spice - im not religeous so il word this as well as i can to fit in with ur views
all of the plants on earth are gods gift
fruit and veg are for the body
ashwaganda, ginko etc are for the mind
and this god - obviously suppioes the spirit too right - well thats ayas place isnt it.

has it helped you - or has it harmed you - that should be the deciding factor - not what some book or group of ppl say.

Welcome!

Interesting topic. I believe that using DMT needs no justification. It's existance and our ability to experience it are justification enough for me. Forbidden fruit, isn't imbibing the forbidden fruit part of what makes us human? I'm no bible scholar, but if we are fallen from grace perhaps the fruit is the light to lead us back. I don't think any of us have the power to cheat god, certainly we can cheat ourselves at times. I'm glad that you have been able to use this molecule to help you heal.

Good luck,
Once

I dont even bother to justify my relationship to these things anymore..It is so deep and intimate and a very very regular part of my life and diet..this is part of who I am on planet earth and I leanred the hard way that you cant convince everyone, so why try to convince anyone?..they are entitled to they're opinions, if I dont accept that than I am not accepting myself in the end..I know that this part of my life is noone elses business and I would rather have them leave me to my harmless actions and beliefs, so even if they choose not to see that I would rather still give that back to them.

There have been people that just refuse to accept it, so they dont come around anymore. That is they're loss and not mine. The programs they run are based on deluded ideas surrounding my actions, not clear representations of the situation at all. The realization that if you want to be accepted, you have to just let go and accpet others reguardless is a part of life I think.

If one looks at it from a loosely gnostic viewpoint - the gnostics being a christian sect and all - I think the forbidden fruit was actually something to liberate us from the clutches of the demiurg.

ok, so as I understand it the demiurg is (in gnosticism) the creator god of this world, but he is a blind god and a jealous god and he is not the ultimate god so to speak. He is deranged and in his derangement created this world of which we are a part, and this is why all things are kind of deranged as well...

Some gnostic sects believed that the snake was a kind of messenger from either the true source or at least a more benign god-being, trying to help us see the world for what it really was and to see the true god instead of just the blind one.
In a more free interpretation in which I define the divine as the original and authentic personality within you, the true self or consciousness, the forbidden fruit is forbidden by the part of you that does not want to recognize itself, wants to remain blind. To eat of the forbidden fruit is one of the many methods to catch glimpses of the true self, thereby offending the false-self, the false god.

cheers & love
Enoon

Enoon,

Very interesting take from a religious perspective. These myths that pervade human culture are truly amazing mysteries, they at times seem like truths and at times simple allegories. The similarities of the myths across cultures is incredible, to me the Serpent myths/beliefs are of particular interest. It is a joy to be a part of this amazing mystery!

In my opinion. As long as spice and aya are helping you and you are taking
The lessons learned there into this reality I don't see a problem.
Anything that authentically increases our capacity for love and understanding
Can't be bad. Be careful of applying belief systems
To this . One must try to stay as open as possible .

I believe dangers come from over use. Isolating oneself
or using it as an escape . integration here is the key .

Keep in mind these substances have been used for thousands of
Years by many cultures in one form or another .
Ayahusca is seen and treated as a medicine in south America.
That's significant. Forbidden fruit no . there is a reason why
This is here for us . Try to think of it as good.and a positive
Thing

I'm so sorry for the loss of your dad . I can't imagine such a thing

Much love to you

i literally said WOW out loud upon reading this, thank you so much. It makes sense. An outcast deity who has been banished by a higher deity ruling the earth, and the true deity sends a messenger to allow man to see beyond this false prophet. Thank you so much for sharing this.

Thank you to all who responded, my mind is much more at ease. I appreciate your kind words, and they truly have helped me rid my mind of irrational guilt. This place is the first where ive ever felt i was among peers, and am part of a group where i belong. i really feel like the spice is my calling in life. the first time i broke through i began to weep, and said out loud "FINALLY!!! THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SEARCHING FOR ALL MY LIFE!!!!"

my 2 cents is that if it is helping you then it is good. the only thing we know for sure about this life is that we are having a subjective experience. so in the end my I generally don't listen to what other ppl have to say as far as "ethics". hope you find your peace.

the judeo-xian creation myth is just that, a myth. How you choose to interpret it or not is your prerogative, but IMHO it seems silly to believe a myth only for the sake of subverting it.

It is important to remember that the Serpent is the Morning Star, the Right Hand of God. If we are all god, then we all have the devil at our fingertips, so to speak.

It could certainly be said that consuming psychedelics is like eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil; i feel these substances definitely grant divine perspective. As to the morality of the decision to eat the fruit, i don't know. In order to know if it is good or evil, we would need knowledge of good and evil, which comes from the plant in question. It's recursive, a paradox, a serpent eating its own tail. The way to break the cycle is to use our Free Will, our power of choice.

Choose life.

I have posted this link before you may find it of interest:

UCA

It has been a help to me in many regards. I am still reading through it.

Fior

DMT is fast and effecient and IMO the Cleanest method to study spirituality, life, the cosmos, etc. simply because it offers Direct Contact - Thank You DMT!
Yes it is starting at the finish line persay. And yes it is free. IMO it was always meant to be found. For 10,000 years Human civilization has collectively and dedicatidly searched for answers. We have endured so much struggle over all these years. DMT is not cheating. We have all earned THIS. So please extend yourself guiltlessly.

If you decide to FEAR then you will reflect a vibration of FEAR. Practice letting go of this self-created belief and you will be left with appreciation and gratitude. I am proud of you for letting go of your guilt thusfar. That is excellent.

Actively expressing Love to Yourself (like how you do for everyone around you) is the BEST way to let go of Fear. When you put out Love, be conscious to reconize that it (Love) first runs through you before it extends to everyone else. Feel it, become it. Never leave yourself out, and your questioning will relent as your wisdom begins to liberate you.

I began using DMT because I was interested in psychs and also chemistry, and synthesizing something was a bit out of my, if not ability, realm of possibility. Using it once a week I felt that it was a great way to locate my inner self and as I became more comfortable with the effects of it I could go deeper into myself. There was one week where I used it 5, each time being more intense than the previous most intense experience (I have not broken through) and the last time I did it my mind told me to take a break and make sure you have a good reason when doing drugs.

I have explicitly stated a reason for the two times I have tripped since then, one was to enjoy the ridiculously out of character warmth and the other was to connect with friends. By stating a reason for doing the drug (even if it is for purely enjoyment or experimentation) I am grounded and will be in control, whereas when I was doing it impromptu every other night I was not in control. I also realized, never do a drug if you have serious apprehensions before ingesting it.

I personally do not believe in god or that he exists (although I realize I can never tell so that places me as an agnostic), and therefore have never had to contemplate whether drugs are cheating god. I have, however, grown exponentially because of my use of drugs (more shrooms than DMT) and am now more spiritual in the sense that I consider death and life more than I did before.

Let no one hold you back from growth, it is essential. Your friends probably see you growing by leaps and bounds. This most likely scares them as they see the hamster wheel of their own lives, the endless repetition, the lack of purpose; the terror of a soul that senses its time for making the evolutionary leap is ending.

It is the hamster that leaves the cage that discovers a new world. And there will be great wonder there.

Change and difference are scary to many people, many others are just so bought into the system that they assume that if the government says it is illegal (or bad), than it is. As a relatively young psychedelic explorer (I first started at 17 and now seven months in, and 18, have tried shrooms and dmt multiple times), I frequently face people from the 'it's illegal' area more than the 'you're changing.' To them I reply that what I am doing is completely safe and offer literature and statistics supporting that what I do is safe. I also explain that I'm doing it in a safe manner, I'm not doing it every day, I'm doing it and writing my experiences down so that I can reflect on them. Explicitly stating what you are hoping to get out of the drug to the people who are scared you're changing might be helpful. If they are truly your friends they will accept the new grown up you.

Thank you Phlux.

I've also had some ridiculous back and forth banter in my head about whether I should really take this drug to the limit. Sometimes I feel like I would be wrong to bite into the 'apple', and will find myself in the punishment of eternity for giving up the life that is such a great gift. Which I guess I'm accepting of, if that's what happens. The apple symbol has come to me recently, and I've connected breaking through to the apple of knowledge. I have yet to breakthrough, which should happen in the next few days, God willing.







even my sub-breakthrough experiences made me run around my apartment literally jumping with joy and exclaiming how grateful I was for finding THE best thing in life.

Using psychedelics has only had good effects on me and my life. And a good effect on the life of the people around me. So what can be wrong, with me taking a bite of that apple?
Psychedelics made me aware of some seriously destructive sides of my character and taught me how to deal with it. I've come a long way and I have eternity ahead. These are stepping stones.

If I am not mistaken in Genesis God says do not eat the forbidden fruit or you will die and the devil tells eve she will not die. She did not die but man fell from grace. So god was lying? it has also been put forth that the fruit was a psychedelic mushroom.

I will not be a proponent of any mind altering substances. If you have changed dramatically after spice for the better then is it so bad? If your work and well being are the same and not in jeopardy then whats so bad.

I am not saying this is the case but there are souls out there that feed on misery. They feel good when others are down it validates them somehow. If you are coming to terms with yourself, dropping insecurities, achieving a good state of mind, and living with acceptance then who could possibly want the old you back. They should celebrate your transition. You have not painted a complete picture of yourself though. I doubt anyone can in an internet forum.

Acceptance, forgiveness (of yourself and others), and deep introspection are the keys you will need to grow. I am sorry for your tragic story. I cannot fathom your pain and hope you resolve it through whatever means at your disposal.

The sad thing that is true about this world we live on is that it is full of malapropisms, and narratives that hint at what is true and what is false. But, as far as facts are concerned they could be severely lacking. The primary tools that 'they' operate with are ignorance, fear, and the threat of physical violence, a truly weak position to come from, which just demonstrates the condition of the world and the minds and hearts of the people upon it.

IF you are concerned that you are concerned that you are partaking of the forbidden fruit, I would recommend reading other historical creation stories, such as: Epic of Atrahasis, The legend of Etana, Tablet of Cattle & Grain, The Royal Archive of Ebla, The nam-shub of Enki, Inanna and the God of Wisdom, Sacred Hymns to Amen, Goddess of Sex and War, The Instructions of Shuruppag, Declaration of Innocence, 7 Tablets of Creation - all of these, and there are more, were written 24th to 21st century BCE. It is not that anyone of them is more true, per say, than the Bible, or any other narrative. Imagine if you will, you want to get a wind of what is going on with the world, well if you read only news papers from Rupert Murdock's company then you are going to get a one sided story all around, so you read as many periodicals on whatever topic that you desire with more diversity in mind.

I know it is a difficult thing to let go of our indoctrination, I am still at war with it, in an attempt to divide the truth. I believe the effort well worth it, because I am sure of one thing, we never really 'die'. This elaborate machine in which we are located will return to the earth from which it came, but we are more than our bodies.

Obviously all of this is IMHO. I say don't let fear grip you, it is the mind killer, and doubt, well it is a valuable tool that has been mislabeled.

Peace upon you all,
Fior