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dmt injection Options
 
1shot2
#1 Posted : 8/5/2008 3:40:52 AM

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ok so say someone had some fairly pure dmt frebase and is thinking of the idea of the injected dmt ,what would have to be done to the freebase spice to make it usable in injectable form.saline?we will say the freebase was a simple lye base naptha freeze baking dish crystal style evap.and was just curious if it would be safe or would it burn the veins?
I only ask as someone here may have the answer.thanx in advance...........1shot2.................
 

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extrememetal43
#2 Posted : 8/5/2008 5:37:15 AM
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do not inject a freebase! it is not water soluble which means its not soluble in your blood and can kill you. You must turn the freebase into a salt first using a form of acid. Im sure some1 will come thru w the rest of the info 4 u.
 
69ron
#3 Posted : 8/5/2008 7:17:09 AM

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You should make it into DMT fumarate. That's the only form approved for injection in the US by the FDA. I wouldn't play around with other salts. Some salts are more toxic than others. I'm sure there's a good reason that DMT fumarate is approved by the FDA and the others salts aren't. Fumarates in general are low in toxicity compared with other salts. Hydrochlorides are usually more toxic. Oxalates are usually very toxic.

Play it safe. Use only pure DMT fumarate and read up on how it is injected. For example, the water to DMT fumarate ratio used, how fast to inject it, how much to inject and in what body part, etc. Dosage varies quite a bit by injection point. I don't know those details, but they are documented somewhere. You might find that info on the FDA site. I'm not sure. Maybe someone here can help you out.

The effects are pretty much the same as snorting it but the dose is many times smaller. You might try snorting 120-150 mg before injecting it just to know what type of effects you're in for.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
Reborn
#4 Posted : 8/6/2008 3:16:10 AM

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This bothers me a bit, its your body but I would be very worried about injecting something enriched from a plant unless you really know what the hell your doing and preferably have some analytical equipment to verify purity.

Now if you could obtain the pure DMT-formate from reputable chemical company made for human use that would be a different story.

So my 2 cents, don't do it.
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lorax
#5 Posted : 8/6/2008 4:25:47 PM

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might i ask WHY? why would you wanna sink so deep as to shoot something up your veins. to me it sounds like a really stupid thing to do. people say its alot like smoking / snorting it.. so why not just do one of these? DONT SHOOT IT! shooting stuff has no style!
I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
 
69ron
#6 Posted : 8/6/2008 6:58:20 PM

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I think if someone wants to shoot something into their body it is their business. I would not personally do it. But if they desire it that way, we should at least give advice on how to do it properly. Giving out personal opinions about the subject matter is not that helpful.

Whenever anyone posts about injecting DMT they are always met with lots of anti injection posts instead of helpful information on how to properly do it. I know most people do not like the idea of injecting DMT and I’m sure Smokingintheboysroom already knows he’s attempting to do something a lot of people don’t agree with. I really believe offering pure information about the matter is the best thing to do. Some people find injecting DMT to be the best method of taking it. Snorting it is painful and takes a ton of DMT to be effective. Smoking produces too short of a trip with too quick of an onset which a lot of people don’t like. Taking it orally requires MAOI which has its own set of health risks.

There must be some SWIM's here that can offer more information on how it’s done properly or at least offer a link to such information.
PLEASE DO NOT PM ME.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
WSaged
#7 Posted : 8/6/2008 9:12:18 PM

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Quote:
shooting stuff has no style!

However, it does guarantee you get the full dose that was intended and allows for more accurate "experimentation", if thats your bag.
You would also be able to accurately figure out what your personal "breakthrough" dose size is.
Thus letting you reach a desired level of hyperspace every time, without misfires.

No matter how you try, when vaporising DMT, you will always lose some vapor into the room, a tiny bit to condensation, some spice gets burned and of course it can just plain get left in the pipe!!
As I'm taking my 2nd toke, the effects from the 1st one are creeping up strong already!!
And after that 2nd toke, I usually have to make myself take the third one!! Sometimes, I can't even tell if the lighter is heating the spice enough, or if I'm getting any kind of real hit because the effects are coming on so strong by then. A lot of times it seems like its going to be too much as it starts coming on, but if I don't take another toke at that point, I usually don't go through to the other side.
There is that certain level that gets reached, where its not a drug anymore and its way too easy to not reach that level when smoking.
IV use would guarantee that level of DMT in the blood stream gets reached, every time that you want it to be.
And you could do it while laying down already.
After a smoked journey, breakthrough or misfire, I don't know how much of the measured dose really got into my lungs and there isn't really any way to measure it.
Even if I could smoke the full 50mg in one toke I think I'd like that better.

I researched IV use of DMT about a year ago, as I had not found a good enough smoking method at that time. I even made some clear, liquefied, acidic DMT with a pH of 7, however I did not try it, just seemed a bit dangerous having to change the DMT freebase back to an acidic liquid and all, plus my math skills are not the greatest and I wasn't totally sure I was calculating the dose correctly. Ended up mixing it back in with my next extraction, during the basification step.

I would still like to experiment with it though, someday when I have the time to spend getting the spice as pure as possible and maybe if I had a little help from someone more knowledgeable than me in math & chemistry. Someone with some experience in the matter.

So I can see the reasons why people would want to try injecting DMT.
I can also see why it could be quite dangerous if not done methodically.

WS
All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Reborn
#8 Posted : 8/7/2008 12:54:36 AM

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Just to be clear I see no difference between IV and smoking.
IV is actually much cleaner and healthier assuming quality product.
I was just adverse to him shooting something enriched from a plant unless he really knew it was pure.
Memory, prophecy and fantasy
-the past, the future and the dreaming moment between -
are all in one country, living one immortal day.
To know that is Wisdom. To use it is the Art.
 
1shot2
#9 Posted : 8/7/2008 1:02:37 AM

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thanx 4 all the info, i have used the dmt numerous times and breakthrough everytime.I was just curious as strassman was using dmt with saline it was in fumarate form however.I will more than likely not go with the injection route,if only because i am not really wanting to do the work to turn it into fumerate.Smoking is my prefered method.and it is absolutly indescribable.words are useless when it comes to describing the experience.it is in my opinion the closest a person can get to nirvana or enlightenment,I look foward to my next spice voyage.I am somewhat hesitant doing it numerous times ,i dont know why its just soo intense that it can be scary and beutiful at the same time,deffinetly glad i have chosen to bring dmt into my life.
 
Spacehippie
#10 Posted : 8/7/2008 3:03:52 AM

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Here is a link that might be helpful.I posted it last time someone asked this question.I think that thread got deleted though.I personally wouldn't do it.But I also believe people should be able to make their own informed choice.So here is the link again.

DMT HCL I.V. Experiments
Once in a while you get shone the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
 
69ron
#11 Posted : 8/7/2008 7:12:49 PM

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Reborn wrote:
Just to be clear I see no difference between IV and smoking.
IV is actually much cleaner and healthier assuming quality product.
I was just adverse to him shooting something enriched from a plant unless he really knew it was pure.


Purity is important especially with IV. We definitely need to inform people about that.

Yeah, smoking is nearly the same as IV because it also bypasses the digestive system and goes nearly straight into the blood stream. The only difference is, it must pass through the membranes of the lungs, and so there's a little bit of protection there.

IM is more like sublingual use. With that method it needs to pass through a lot of tissue before getting into the veins. I believe IM is generally safer than IV and normally requires a higher dose. As I understand it, IM usually produces a slower onset and longer trip as compared with IV and so IM is usually preferred over IV when injecting DMT.

Always keep in mind that the injection point can dramatically affect the dosage, onset and duration of a drug.
PLEASE DO NOT PM ME.
I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
Attention All Shipping
#12 Posted : 8/8/2008 12:29:31 PM
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69ron wrote:
You should make it into DMT fumarate. That's the only form approved for injection in the US by the FDA. I wouldn't play around with other salts. Some salts are more toxic than others. I'm sure there's a good reason that DMT fumarate is approved by the FDA and the others salts aren't.

I think Fumarate is just approved by the FDA because Strassman asked for approval to do his DMT experiments (rather than any wider approval for general use, though I may be wrong on this). Given that DMT hasn't been approved by the FDA generally even for smoking then I wouldn't put too much relevance in FDA approval or its absence for different types of DMT, I think its a political thing rather than a safety/health thing.
 
lorax
#13 Posted : 8/8/2008 4:32:02 PM

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yea thats right.. sorry about that! i just didn't want him to kill himself.. so i advised against it. i think if i were to shoot it i would go for pure synthetic DMT tho.. i wouldn't trust the stuff i make myself for IV.
I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
 
XENONSION
#14 Posted : 8/13/2008 2:06:09 AM
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yes, i would also suggest obtaining pure synthetic dmt freebase, then converting it to the fumerate yourself, or ask the company making the freebase if they are capable of making it in the fumerate form for you. The company i'm thinking of that offers this product in the synthetic form, also does custom synthesis of various other chemicals, so they can probably custom make it however you prefer. I won't publicly post their information though, if you are in the know about this type of thing, then you should already know where to look.

good luck though, i'm an interested to see the results. I couldn't ever stand to stick myself with a needle, but i would love to read about it, lol

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TomWhoMe
#15 Posted : 4/16/2017 11:05:50 PM
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An old post, I know...

There is obviously a stigma attached to IV, but if conducted with care then it is the most reliable and effective procedure. Note that it is the route of administration (ROI) choice for many medicines, as practised today.

SWIM would just like to add that there should be almost no difference pharmacologically between the fumarate and the acetate salts of freebase DMT. Both are non-toxic carboxylic acids with comparable pKa values. The acetate salt will be more easily produced since acetic acid is commonplace. SWIM is interested in producing DMT salts for IV since smoking is inconsistent and the process causes unwanted concerns (trying to get enough, dealing with the harsh lungful, struggling with the flame...) at a time when SWIM wants to be getting comfortable.

All starting points for IV (and smoked freebase!) should obviously be high-purity DMT. In terms of the getting the salt formation right - the simplest method would be to overshoot towards an acidic pH - this should ensure all DMT is converted to its conjugate acid (salt form) and will dissolve. This solution should be filtered, since anything insoluble at this point is NOT what you want to inject (typically impurities etc.). The next step will be to reduce the pH closer to physiological levels (pH: 7.4). This could be done with small increments of concentrated solution of sodium bicarbonate (in water). Once pH is roughly neutral, you will have a solution of buffered (stable pH) solution of DMT acetate. If you track the initial weight of DMT, then you will know the amount of salt you have formed, and you can measure the volume of liquid you have.

Dr Strassman documents 0.6 mg/kg dose maximum. If he is referring to the fumarate, then be aware that the acetate salt has a lower mass (a quick google with tell you precisely), and therefore you should adjust your desired body mass-relative dose accordingly. (multiply your body mass in kilos * dose per kilo (of fumarate salt e.g. 0.6 mg/kg) * (total mass of acetate salt)/(total mass of fumarate salt). If convenient, you can top up the water to make an easy volume - e.g. 1 g in 5 mL = 50 mg per ¼ mL.

Always use pure, distilled water. Get some proper syringe filters. Know that your DMT is pure. Be cautious at first with your dosing. Have a tripsitter. Never inject an unfiltered solution. If your DMT is not crystalline to begin with, then it is unlikely to be pure enough. Be sensible.

The information posted here is basic chemical/biological knowledge, posted on behalf of SWIM for the purposes of harm reduction.
 
syberdelic
#16 Posted : 4/17/2017 6:28:07 AM

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I would just like to point out that a lot of pharmaceuticals and precursors to common drugs are plant extractions. A synthesized drug is often more pure than plant extractions, but not as a constant. There is no reason that DMT extracted from plant sources can't be pure enough for any injection route.

The caveat in this case is that if it was extracted in someones kitchen or basement, it is doubtful pure enough. I can get pure white crystals by running a couple recrystalizations in the freezer, but I would never dream of putting that in a vein.
 
null24
#17 Posted : 4/17/2017 4:08:30 PM

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Youve gotten some good responses along with the typical kneejerk ones. As far as the type of acid used, I would venture that HCl would be as safe as a fumarate, but that statement is not based on research.

Personally, I love the ROA. Ive never injected n,n but have done it with 5meoDMT. Once IV and several times IM. I found I really liked the IM route because after injecting, I could get in an asana and wait ten-twenty seconds for come up. Plus the exact dosing, I can never really know how well ive vaped a given dose until its done. With IV IM, I know exactly what ive got.

Of course be safe, be smart, be careful, and happy trails.
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Bancopuma
#18 Posted : 4/18/2017 10:11:03 AM

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null24 wrote:
Personally, I love the ROA. Ive never injected n,n but have done it with 5meoDMT. Once IV and several times IM. I found I really liked the IM route because after injecting, I could get in an asana and wait ten-twenty seconds for come up. Plus the exact dosing, I can never really know how well ive vaped a given dose until its done. With IV IM, I know exactly what ive got.


Interesting stuff Null. I have a good friend in the US and who has experimented with 5-MeO via a range of different administration routes, and his ROA of choice is IM for the reasons you provide. With the IV it just comes on so quickly, whereas with the IM you get a little time to settle into it. I know his experiences with it via this ROA where game changers for him.

I'm someone fortunate enough to have experienced IV DMT in a scientific-medical setting, a part of a research study on DMT being conducted by Imperial College London. I have to say I was really impressed with the IV route. My transition to the DMT space was particularly seamless, pre-flight and transitional jitters and anxiety were muted (perhaps this was partly setting related)...my experience was brief (only 7 minutes), but very positive and beautiful. As you may expect, a little goes a long way dose wise via IV. I've definitely dosed higher than on that occasion, but I got a strong feeling for how efficient this ROA is...no DMT is wasted. It definitely requires more care and caution in terms of preparation if people wish to go down this ROA route.
 
Glossolalia
#19 Posted : 4/19/2017 2:09:52 PM

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WSaged wrote:
Quote:
shooting stuff has no style!

However, it does guarantee you get the full dose that was intended and allows for more accurate "experimentation", if thats your bag. You would also be able to accurately figure out what your personal "breakthrough" dose size is.
Thus letting you reach a desired level of hyperspace every time, without misfires.


As a recovering heroin addict I can testify that this is a misunderstanding. Hitting your veins with a typical insulin needle takes a lot of practice, and even the most hardened junkies frequently "miss" either part or (gasp!) all of their shot. There are lots of ways this can happen:

You can register (see blood pull back) but then as you push the plunger in you slightly change the position of the needle-tip so that you end up with a subcutaneous shot instead.

You can register and then push the plunger in and accidentally poke the needle clear through the vein.

You can fail to register (bad aim, bad angle, collapsed vein, other reasons) and then have to start over again. If there is even a tiny bit of blood in the barrel of the syringe you risk it coagulating which will clog your needle, or even worse, you'll inject a potential fatal blood clot.

Also let me restate what others said: that under no circumstances do you ever shoot anything that is not water soluble at body-temperature. Inside your veins will be a mass of goop that's collected red blood cells and it will eventually find a blood vessel too tiny to carry it, thereby cutting off oxygen. And that's the best case scenario.

I'll confess, when I first got into DMT this notion occurred to me as well. But after I got my GVG I realized there is absolutely no reason. You can go as deep down that rabbit hole as you want to go without poking holes in yourself.

Be safe and may the entities be with you!
I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes. — Walt Whitman
 
null24
#20 Posted : 4/19/2017 3:48:42 PM

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Glossolalia wrote:
WSaged wrote:
Quote:
shooting stuff has no style!

However, it does guarantee you get the full dose that was intended and allows for more accurate "experimentation", if thats your bag. You would also be able to accurately figure out what your personal "breakthrough" dose size is.
Thus letting you reach a desired level of hyperspace every time, without misfires.


As a recovering heroin addict I can testify that this is a misunderstanding. Hitting your veins with a typical insulin needle takes a lot of practice, and even the most hardened junkies frequently "miss" either part or (gasp!) all of their shot. There are lots of ways this can happen:
!


I can empathize with your feelings as an ex-heroin addict, and you are definitely correct in that there can be mishaps injecting drugs. However with that said, I feel that too often this ROA is conflated with addiction and drug abuse and therefore recieves a lot of negative attention. AS LONG AS precautions are taken and one goes into it researched and knowing what to do, it is very viable and effective. I feel that too often people confuse the tool for the drug. I once had a guy who was a recovering (?) crack addict refuse to smoalk through my straight shooter because it looked just like a crack pipe and no other reason, thereby missing an experience.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
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