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Zero proof DMT is made in your head. Options
 
Orion
#1 Posted : 1/24/2011 4:27:26 PM

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Many seem to be following popular DMT hearsay, only to eventually have it smashed out of them as they learn more about it. Here's a shortcut.

1: There is no proof that DMT is created or released in your brain.

2: Many chemists will argue that various conditions needed for the production of DMT in the brain simply are not there.

3: Strassman himself only hinted that DMT may be produced by the pineal gland. It's not even a theory.

4: Joe Rogan lol
Art Van D'lay wrote:
Smoalk. It. And. See.


Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
jbark
#2 Posted : 1/24/2011 4:40:19 PM

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Orion wrote:
Many seem to be following popular DMT hearsay, only to eventually have it smashed out of them as they learn more about it. Here's a shortcut.

1: There is no proof that DMT is released in your brain.

2: Many chemists will argue that various conditions needed for the production of DMT in the brain simply are not there.

3: Strassman himself only hinted that DMT may be produced by the pineal gland. It's not even a theory.

4: Joe Rogan lol.

5: ^^^^



But, But, everyone online says it is...

JBArk the ghoul-libel
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
soulfood
#3 Posted : 1/24/2011 5:13:37 PM

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I think that Joe Rogan, the allround specialist and pier certified spokeman on DMT should make a public statement. I was not 5 minutes away from digging into the bridge of my nose with a spoon. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation!!!
 
d*l*b
#4 Posted : 1/24/2011 5:34:23 PM

ø


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Quote:
Addendum by Rick Strassman

"I did my best in the DMT book to differentiate between what is known, and what I was conjecturing about (based upon what is known), regarding certain aspects of DMT dynamics. However, it's amazing how ineffective my efforts seem to have been. So many people write me, or write elsewhere, about DMT, and the pineal, assuming that the things I conjecture about are true. When I was writing the book, I thought I was clear enough, and repeating myself would have gotten tedious.

"We don't know whether DMT is made in the pineal. I muster a lot of circumstantial evidence supporting a reason to look long and hard at the pineal, but we do not yet know. There are data suggesting urinary DMT rises in psychotic patients when their psychosis is worse. However, we don't know whether DMT rises during dreams, meditation, near-death, death, birth or any other endogenous altered state. To the extent those states resemble those brought on by giving DMT, it certainly makes one wonder if endogenous DMT might be involved, and if it were, it would explain a lot. But we don't know yet. Even if the pineal weren't involved, that would have little overall effect on my theories regarding a role for DMT in endogenous altered states, because we do know that the gene involved in DMT synthesis is present in many organs, particularly lung. If the pineal made DMT, it would tie up a lot of loose ends regarding this enigmatic little organ. But people seem to live pretty normals lives without a pineal gland; for example, when it has had to be removed because of a tumor.

"In both these regards--the pineal-DMT connection, and endogenous DMT dynamics--we ought to know a lot more within the next several years due to the efforts of a research group being led by Steven Barker at Louisiana State University. He, with his grad student Ethan McIlhenny, are developing a new super-assay for DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine, and metabolites. This assay will be capable of detecting those compounds much more sensitively than previous generations of assays. They're looking at endogenous levels in awake sober normals, to assess baseline values of these compounds. We should have some data from those samples within a year. They also will be looking at pineal tissue. Once we have some baseline data in normal humans in normal waking consciousness, comparisons can be made between those levels and levels in endogenous altered states, like dreams, near-death, and so on."

http://www.erowid.org/ch.../dmt/dmt_article2.shtml

I personally think Strassmann should wear a big sign on his head for a year or two to get the message out, the addenum in Erowid doesn’t seem to be getting the message out too well.
D × V × F > R
 
acolon_5
#5 Posted : 1/24/2011 6:53:36 PM

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So, it's not a fact that DMT is NOT in our heads either???

It's still, "we don't know"?

Shocked

The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Never underestimate the power of STUFF!


I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.

I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
 
Orion
#6 Posted : 1/24/2011 7:38:21 PM

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acolon_5 wrote:
So, it's not a fact that DMT is NOT in our heads either???

It's still, "we don't know"?

Shocked



Alas I considered this initially. Now I included it in the topic name. But still, does it even bear thinking about?
Art Van D'lay wrote:
Smoalk. It. And. See.


Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know
 
joedirt
#7 Posted : 1/24/2011 9:57:44 PM

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Orion wrote:
Many seem to be following popular DMT hearsay, only to eventually have it smashed out of them as they learn more about it. Here's a shortcut.

1: There is no proof that DMT is released in your brain.

2: Many chemists will argue that various conditions needed for the production of DMT in the brain simply are not there.

3: Strassman himself only hinted that DMT may be produced by the pineal gland. It's not even a theory.

4: Joe Rogan lol.

5: ^^^^



Er hum. Maybe you should quit trusting Joe Rogan and start trusting google scholar...

Endogenous psychoactive tryptamines reconsidered: an anxiolytic role for dimethyltryptamine


http://www.sciencedirect...7c5025&searchtype=a


For those to lazey to follow the links:

Quote:
Endogenous psychoactive tryptamines reconsidered: an anxiolytic role for dimethyltryptamine
Author: Jacob, Michael S.; Presti, David E.
Abstract: The presence of the potent hallucinogenic psychoactive chemical N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in the human body has puzzled scientists for decades. Endogenous DMT was investigated in the 1960s and 1970s and it was proposed that DMT was involved in psychosis and schizophrenia. This hypothesis developed from comparisons of the blood and urine of schizophrenic and control subjects. However, much of this research proved inconclusive and conventional thinking has since held that trace levels of DMT, and other endogenous psychoactive tryptamines, are insignificant metabolic byproducts. The recent discovery of a G-protein-coupled, human trace amine receptor has triggered a reappraisal of the role of compounds present in limited concentrations in biological systems. Interestingly enough, DMT and other psychoactive tryptamine hallucinogens elicit a robust response at the trace amine receptor. While it is currently accepted that serotonin 5-HT2A receptors play a pivotal role in the activity of hallucinogenic/ psychedelic compounds, we propose that the effects induced by exogenous DMT administration, especially at low doses, are due in part to activity at the trace amine receptor. Furthermore, we suggest that endogenous DMT interacts with the TA receptor to produce a calm and relaxed mental state, which may suppress, rather than promote, symptoms of psychosis. This hypothesis may help explain the inconsistency in the early analysis of endogenous DMT in humans. Finally, we propose that amphetamine action at the TA receptor may contribute to the calming effects of amphetamine and related drugs, especially at low doses.
URI: http://hdl.handle.net/123456789/381
Date: 2004-10-15
If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
 
jamie
#8 Posted : 1/24/2011 10:03:30 PM

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I thought DMT was found in the brain and that the myth was concerning its origion in the pineal.
 
Lodi
#9 Posted : 1/24/2011 10:50:04 PM

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I have seen interviews with phd's discussing dmt in your brain, there was also a special on the history channel about our "soul" and how when we go under anesthesia there is a mass movement of neurons in your brain and that at the moment of death, those neurons leave the human body entirely, they also talked about how thats also what happens at death. They even talk about how the same thing happens when you smoke DMT! so... When the history channel even tells me that dmt is in our brains, and that when we smoke dmt or go under anasthesia, or have a near death experience, those neurons make thier way out of our bodies, but come back when we return from the trip. these are things that have been measured on a biological scale, and they are now being presented as a logical theses in the science world. It is real, and you should look up that special and watch it yourself.
Everything I say is fictional, I do not support illegal drug use of any kind, SWIM is a fictional character.


 
endlessness
#10 Posted : 1/24/2011 10:55:56 PM

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Give me one credible scientific source talking about it, otherwise you cant make these claims here. I can give you scientific sources which point otherwise, such as INMT (the key enzyme) not having been found in the pineal gland.

History channel is not a credible source, it airs shows on UFOs, Mayas, Atlantis and the giants, 2012 and whatever else. Please exercise critical thinking, check for other sources when you see something on TV.
 
joedirt
#11 Posted : 1/24/2011 10:57:11 PM

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Here's something as recent as 2009...in the journal Science.

http://www.sciencemag.or...t/323/5916/934.abstract

Quote:

Science 13 February 2009:
Vol. 323 no. 5916 pp. 934-937
DOI: 10.1126/science.1166127

* Report

The Hallucinogen N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) Is an Endogenous Sigma-1 Receptor Regulator

1. Dominique Fontanilla1,
2. Molly Johannessen2,
3. Abdol R. Hajipour3,
4. Nicholas V. Cozzi1,
5. Meyer B. Jackson2 and
6. Arnold E. Ruoho1,*

+ Author Affiliations

1.
1 Department of Pharmacology, University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health, Madison, WI 53706, USA.
2.
2 Department of Physiology, University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health, Madison, WI 53706, USA.
3.
3 Pharmaceutical Research Laboratory, Department of Chemistry, Isfahan University of Technology, Isfahan 84156, IR Iran.

1. * To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: aeruoho@wisc.edu

Abstract

The sigma-1 receptor is widely distributed in the central nervous system and periphery. Originally mischaracterized as an opioid receptor, the sigma-1 receptor binds a vast number of synthetic compounds but does not bind opioid peptides; it is currently considered an orphan receptor. The sigma-1 receptor pharmacophore includes an alkylamine core, also found in the endogenous compound N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT). DMT acts as a hallucinogen, but its receptor target has been unclear. DMT bound to sigma-1 receptors and inhibited voltage-gated sodium ion (Na+) channels in both native cardiac myocytes and heterologous cells that express sigma-1 receptors. DMT induced hypermobility in wild-type mice but not in sigma-1 receptor knockout mice. These biochemical, physiological, and behavioral experiments indicate that DMT is an endogenous agonist for the sigma-1 receptor.


Here's another one from Science Signaling
http://stke.sciencemag.o...ract/sigtrans;2/61/pe12

Quote:
Sci. Signal., 10 March 2009
Vol. 2, Issue 61, p. pe12
[DOI: 10.1126/scisignal.261pe12]
PERSPECTIVES
When the Endogenous Hallucinogenic Trace Amine N,N-Dimethyltryptamine Meets the Sigma-1 Receptor

Tsung-Ping Su*1, Teruo Hayashi1, and D. Bruce Vaupel2

1 Cellular Pathobiology Section, Cellular Neurobiology Research Branch, Intramural Research Program, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, Department of Health and Human Services, 333 Cassell Drive, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA.
2 Neuroimaging Research Branch, Intramural Research Program, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, Department of Health and Human Services, 333 Cassell Drive, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA.

Abstract: N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is a hallucinogen found endogenously in human brain that is commonly recognized to target the 5-hydroxytryptamine 2A receptor or the trace amine–associated receptor to exert its psychedelic effect. DMT has been recently shown to bind sigma-1 receptors, which are ligand-regulated molecular chaperones whose function includes inhibiting various voltage-sensitive ion channels. Thus, it is possible that the psychedelic action of DMT might be mediated in part through sigma-1 receptors. Here, we present a hypothetical signaling scheme that might be triggered by the binding of DMT to sigma-1 receptors.

* Corresponding author. Cellular Pathobiology Section, IRP, NIDA, NIH Suite 3304, 333 Cassell Drive, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA. Telephone: 443-740-2804; fax: 443-740-2142; e-mail: TSU@intra.nida.nih.gov.


If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
 
joedirt
#12 Posted : 1/24/2011 10:58:15 PM

Not I

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endlessness wrote:
Give me one credible scientific source talking about it, otherwise you cant make these claims here. I can give you scientific sources which point otherwise, such as INMT (the key enzyme) not having been found in the pineal gland.

History channel is not a credible source, it airs shows on UFOs, Mayas, Atlantis and the giants, 2012 and whatever else. Please exercise critical thinking, check for other sources when you see something on TV.



Please see above. The journal Science is about as Big as it gets....
If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
 
Lodi
#13 Posted : 1/24/2011 10:58:44 PM

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Yeah, exactly what he said lol
Everything I say is fictional, I do not support illegal drug use of any kind, SWIM is a fictional character.


 
endlessness
#14 Posted : 1/24/2011 11:01:15 PM

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I thought you guys were talking about dmt being made in the brain (and the pineal), which is the usual misinformation which comes up once in a while.

I didnt realize you meant about it being present at all. Sure dmt is present in trace amounts all over in different parts of the body, that wasnt disputed, but there's no evidence it is made in the brain, because the necessary enzyme is lacking:


http://www.scribd.com/do...-Dimethyltryptamine-DMT

Quote:

"A contemporary investigation, utilizing modern
genetic and structural techniques, has provided a
more detailed analysis of INMT, but does not provide
a complete story. In two studies, Thompson
et al. [35,36], cloned, expressed, localized, and
characterized the activities of rabbit and human
INMT. Using Northern blot analysis, they found rabbit
INMT transcripts expressed heavily in the lung,
moderately in the liver, and weakly in the brain. Human
INMT was expressed in the lung, thyroid, adrenal
gland, heart, muscle, and spinal cord, but not in
the brain.
The authors observe high Km values (an
order of magnitude higher than in previous studies
[33,34]) of TYP for recombinant human INMT and
an absence of INMT mRNA transcripts in the brain.
Thus, Thompson et al. conclude that the production
of DMT in humans is not physiologically significant.
Their conclusion places much weight on the significance
of observed Km values for recombinant human
INMT and does not take into account several
additional genetic and enzymatic concerns."



I suppose the OP should re-word himself and say that "zero proof DMT is made in your head" instead of "is in your head"
 
joedirt
#15 Posted : 1/24/2011 11:23:34 PM

Not I

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endlessness wrote:
I thought you guys were talking about dmt being made in the brain (and the pineal), not just being present. Sure dmt is present in trace amounts all over in different parts of the body but there's no evidence it is made in the brain, because the necessary enzyme is lacking:


http://www.scribd.com/do...-Dimethyltryptamine-DMT

Quote:

"A contemporary investigation, utilizing modern
genetic and structural techniques, has provided a
more detailed analysis of INMT, but does not provide
a complete story. In two studies, Thompson
et al. [35,36], cloned, expressed, localized, and
characterized the activities of rabbit and human
INMT. Using Northern blot analysis, they found rabbit
INMT transcripts expressed heavily in the lung,
moderately in the liver, and weakly in the brain. Human
INMT was expressed in the lung, thyroid, adrenal
gland, heart, muscle, and spinal cord, but not in
the brain.
The authors observe high Km values (an
order of magnitude higher than in previous studies
[33,34]) of TYP for recombinant human INMT and
an absence of INMT mRNA transcripts in the brain.
Thus, Thompson et al. conclude that the production
of DMT in humans is not physiologically significant.
Their conclusion places much weight on the significance
of observed Km values for recombinant human
INMT and does not take into account several
additional genetic and enzymatic concerns."



I suppose the OP should re-word himself and say that "zero proof DMT is made in your head" instead of "is in your head"


Endless that journal you listed is Medical Hypothesis and the article is from 2004. I for one have not heard of this journal. Doesn't mean it's not a big name, but it is certianly outside my normal scope. aka I don't recall seeing it on the shelf at the science library.

The other journal/paper I listed is Science Signaling...also a very big name journal and that paper is from 2009.

He said zero proof and technically that is correct, but there is starting to be mounting evidence that it may very well be so. That doesn't mean it has to come from the pineal, but there is no reason to assume that it couldn't be. It could be proven that it's all in the peripheral nervous system and then crosses the blood brain barrier, but I just find it highly unlikely, but certainly not out of scope of possibility.

I think I'll try and get the Science Signaling article tomorrow and check into it a little more....

If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
 
endlessness
#16 Posted : 1/24/2011 11:36:27 PM

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At no point do your articles claim DMT is being created in the brain, they say that it is FOUND in the brain, which as I said, is not a disputed fact.
 
endlessness
#17 Posted : 1/24/2011 11:38:48 PM

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Here are both your articles:
 
joedirt
#18 Posted : 1/24/2011 11:49:35 PM

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endlessness wrote:
Here it is:

Sci. Signal., 10 March 2009
Vol. 2, Issue 61, p. pe12
[DOI: 10.1126/scisignal.261pe12]
PERSPECTIVES
When the Endogenous Hallucinogenic Trace Amine N,N-Dimethyltryptamine Meets the Sigma-1 Receptor

Tsung-Ping Su*1, Teruo Hayashi1, and D. Bruce Vaupel2



and here's the quote/abstract were they directly refer DMT being found in the human brain....the only point of contention is was it produced in the brain did it cross the blood brain barrier. Have you read the article above? I have not.

"Abstract: N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is a hallucinogen found endogenously in human brain that is commonly recognized to target the 5-hydroxytryptamine 2A receptor or the trace amine–associated receptor to exert its psychedelic effect. DMT has been recently shown to bind sigma-1 receptors, which are ligand-regulated molecular chaperones whose function includes inhibiting various voltage-sensitive ion channels. Thus, it is possible that the psychedelic action of DMT might be mediated in part through sigma-1 receptors. Here, we present a hypothetical signaling scheme that might be triggered by the binding of DMT to sigma-1 receptors."
If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
 
DMTripper
#19 Posted : 1/24/2011 11:50:42 PM

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There IS DMT in our blood and that's enough of a mystery for me to start with Smile

––––––

DMTripper is a fictional character therefore everything he says here must be fiction.
I mean, who really believes there is such a place as Hyperspace!!

 
endlessness
#20 Posted : 1/24/2011 11:55:16 PM

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joedirt wrote:
endlessness wrote:
Here it is:

Sci. Signal., 10 March 2009
Vol. 2, Issue 61, p. pe12
[DOI: 10.1126/scisignal.261pe12]
PERSPECTIVES
When the Endogenous Hallucinogenic Trace Amine N,N-Dimethyltryptamine Meets the Sigma-1 Receptor

Tsung-Ping Su*1, Teruo Hayashi1, and D. Bruce Vaupel2



and here's the quote/abstract were they directly refer DMT being found in the human brain....the only point of contention is was it produced in the brain did it cross the blood brain barrier. Have you read the article above? I have not.

"Abstract: N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is a hallucinogen found endogenously in human brain that is commonly recognized to target the 5-hydroxytryptamine 2A receptor or the trace amine–associated receptor to exert its psychedelic effect. DMT has been recently shown to bind sigma-1 receptors, which are ligand-regulated molecular chaperones whose function includes inhibiting various voltage-sensitive ion channels. Thus, it is possible that the psychedelic action of DMT might be mediated in part through sigma-1 receptors. Here, we present a hypothetical signaling scheme that might be triggered by the binding of DMT to sigma-1 receptors."


Yes I read both, I just posted them above. They do not claim dmt is produced in the brain, they only claim it is found there. The only part where they talk about production they say:

Quote:
DMT can be producedby enzymes in mammalian lung (11) and in rodent brain


So, once again, no proof that its produced in the human brain.
 
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