CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
123NEXT
Mescaline Fumarate Details Options
 
narmz
#1 Posted : 1/19/2011 3:24:44 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 472
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 02-Jun-2018
SWIM wanted to do a quick summary on the info he has been accumulating about this salt form. He recently bio-assayed the product, and found it to be nearly as potent as the hydrochloride salt, and also experienced the best yields of any cactus extraction he has performed.

Mescaline Fumarate
Soluble in: Water
Insoluble in: Limonene, Anydrous IPA, Acetone, MEK (most likely insoluble in all non-polars like xylene and toluene)
Potency: 91% as potent as HCL salt (75% as potent if the acid only bonds to one freebase molecule)
Isolation Technique:
1. Cook cactus material in acidic water (ph 2-3) for up to 6 hours then reduce to around 300ml. SWIM employed a pressure cooker for this step.
2. Let tea settle and decant to remove particles, optionally filter with activated charcoal.
3. Basify tea by adding 100ml of lye water until ph of total solution is 13 or so.
4. Add 100 to 150ml of limonene to the solution and shake like crazy, let set to separate.
5. Decant the limonene and add to jar with dessicant (calcium chloride was used here)
6. Repeat steps 4-5 at least once so you have around 300ml of limonene.
7. Prepare Fumaric Acid IPA by first drying the IPA with dessicant (calcium chloride), then saturating around 50ml of IPA with Fumaric acid.
8. Run collected limonene through cotton filter.
9. Through a dense cotton filter, slowly drip the FASIPA solution into the limonene. Light clouds will slowly form. Let settle.
10. Mescaline fumarate will continue to fall out of solution over the course of a few days. Decant the liquid, save it in a clean jar, and dry the precipitates. There will probably be some limonene and fumaric acid contamination in the product.
11. Clean the product using dry IPA, Acetone, or MEK, grinding the product in a shot-glass while submerged in one of these solvents. Let settle and decant then evap to yield cleaned product. Optionally dissolve in minimal water and re-x slowly for pretty xtals.

So there ya go, SWIM hopes this helps others out who don't want to use hydrochloric acid to salt out their mescaline. Also, never throw away your solvent after decanting, not just because it's good to reuse your solvents, but also because more mescaline will most likely fall out, SWIM had over 500mg, more than had fallen out in the first 2 days, fall out in the days following after decanting.

Total Yield for first Pull:
900mg of cleaned product (and counting)
Everything I post is made up fiction. SWIM represents a character who is not based in or on reality.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
Madcap
#2 Posted : 1/20/2011 1:48:02 AM

illudium Q-36


Posts: 861
Joined: 09-Jul-2009
Last visit: 31-Aug-2017
Location: uranus
narmz,

I love that you've been working with this! I had read in the past that mesc fumarate was a no-go. Thank you for pressing ahead.

Has a bioassay been done? Is it def active? I saw that you listed potency at %91 compared to mesc hcl, but that read more like a calculation than a "ride the lightning" test.

All posts written by Madcap should be regarded as fiction.
 
narmz
#3 Posted : 1/20/2011 4:53:22 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 472
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 02-Jun-2018
Yes, it is definitely active. SWIM found 400mg to be on par with 360mg of the HCL salt. Make sure you do the cleaning step though, otherwise the dose will be way off. Quite a bit of fumaric acid falls out as well, and you will often find the cleaning step removing between 25 to 50% of the yield.

This could also be done using Fumaric acid saturated water instead of salting directly out, SWIM just prefers salting out directly, but both methods yield the same results. You may even want to salt out first, then follow it up with a water wash to make sure all the actives have fallen out. SWIM would like to see others experimenting with this salt so the best solvents can be determined. He thinks acetone may be a tad bit better at cleaning than IPA, but if everything is kept completely dry the results are very similar.
Everything I post is made up fiction. SWIM represents a character who is not based in or on reality.
 
Jorkest
#4 Posted : 1/20/2011 8:13:41 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Moderator | Skills: Extraction Troubleshooting, (S)elf ProgrammingChemical expert | Skills: Extraction Troubleshooting, (S)elf Programming

Posts: 4341
Joined: 02-Oct-2008
Last visit: 21-Jun-2019
coooooool
it's a sound
 
DiMiTriX
#5 Posted : 1/20/2011 8:22:06 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 664
Joined: 07-Sep-2010
Last visit: 14-Nov-2016
Location: europe
yeah,very cool! what was the starting material?
Tz'is aná
 
biopsylo
#6 Posted : 1/20/2011 10:57:30 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 752
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 15-Jun-2019
Location: green heart of caribou
please thank swiy for me. this is great information. is the boiling method giving better results than a limetek? is this tek written for fresh cacti, or can dry pieces be used? what acid was used for the boils? if using a pressure cooker, is there possibility for damage due to higher temps?
thanks Very happy
 
narmz
#7 Posted : 1/20/2011 11:42:47 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 472
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 02-Jun-2018
DiMiTriX wrote:
yeah,very cool! what was the starting material?

Fresh Pedro, but the experiment has worked with dried as well.

biopsylo wrote:
please thank swiy for me. this is great information. is the boiling method giving better results than a limetek? is this tek written for fresh cacti, or can dry pieces be used? what acid was used for the boils? if using a pressure cooker, is there possibility for damage due to higher temps?


SWIM never had good results with a lime tek. This tek works for fresh or dried cactus, dried just requires maybe a little more effort to filter or a little more time to decant. Citric acid was used for the boils. There may be possibility for damage, but SWIM finds this unlikely.
Everything I post is made up fiction. SWIM represents a character who is not based in or on reality.
 
DiMiTriX
#8 Posted : 1/21/2011 12:04:45 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 664
Joined: 07-Sep-2010
Last visit: 14-Nov-2016
Location: europe
omg omg..ok!XD but sorry..how many? 900 mg are cool but from how many cactus? that's important Smile
Tz'is aná
 
narmz
#9 Posted : 1/21/2011 6:31:41 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 472
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 02-Jun-2018
1 segment length about elbow to top of thumb
Everything I post is made up fiction. SWIM represents a character who is not based in or on reality.
 
DiMiTriX
#10 Posted : 1/21/2011 8:07:34 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 664
Joined: 07-Sep-2010
Last visit: 14-Nov-2016
Location: europe
mmm seems a good yeld so.. thanks for the report Smile
Tz'is aná
 
fraterS.O.L.
#11 Posted : 1/22/2011 3:57:00 AM

Bill Nye


Posts: 289
Joined: 04-Aug-2010
Last visit: 08-Oct-2018
Location: the lab
Very cool! Great work narmz. I'm guessing xylene and FASA is cool as well? I will try this next time I order cactus.
"Then he looked right through me
With somniferous almond eyes
Don't even know what that means
Must remember to write it down,
This is so real
Like the time Dave floated away
See my heart is pounding
'Cause this **** never happens to me!"
Tool - Rosetta Stoned


ANYTHING I POST ONLY TOOK PLACE IN REALMS OF PURE IDEA AND THOUGHT, ANY PICTURES I POST ARE STRAIGHT FROM GOOGLE IMAGES. ANY AND ALL PROCESSES I CLAIM TO CARRY OUT HAVE NOT ACTUALLY OCCURRED IN PHYSICAL REALITY, AND THEREFORE VIOLATE NO PHYSICAL LAW. WHEN SUCH THINGS ARE BANNED FROM THOUGHT I WILL CEASE TO CARRY THEM OUT EVEN IN THE ETHER.
 
Phenylthalatryx
#12 Posted : 1/28/2011 8:43:28 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 11
Joined: 07-Jul-2009
Last visit: 14-Aug-2011
SWIM has had good experiences using the Xylene/FASA tech. SWIM was wondering if anyone has tried recrystalizing mescaline fumarate. Fumaric acid forms beautiful clear, needle like crystals when dissolved in acetone and evaporated. SWIM would like to see some nice looking crystals. In SWIM's experience mescaline fumarate is practically insoluble in acetone at room temp. SWIM was considering using distilled water to try recrystalizing. Does anyone have any suggestions?
"The real voyage in discovery consists not in seeing new landscapes, but in having new eyes." ~Marcel Proust
 
narmz
#13 Posted : 1/28/2011 1:37:23 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 472
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 02-Jun-2018
Distilled water is a good idea, evap without any added heat with minimal water at room temp for a day or two. The other way that'd work, would be dissolve the fumarates in minimal water, then add an excess amount of Acetone or IPA, and the fumarates should fall out slowly and crystallize. The speed with which you mix the two solutions should determine crystal size.
Everything I post is made up fiction. SWIM represents a character who is not based in or on reality.
 
Adivino
#14 Posted : 1/28/2011 3:36:00 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 154
Joined: 03-May-2010
Last visit: 18-Dec-2013
Location: Under the sea
Did you weight the starting material? Knowing that it yielded 900mg means little if not.
The text above was typed by frenzy monkeys randomly hitting their keyboards.
 
narmz
#15 Posted : 1/30/2011 3:03:27 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 472
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 02-Jun-2018
No, did not weigh the starting material, it was fresh... Weight means very little as well and has nothing really to do with amount of alkaloids present, especially with fresh material. I gave a size estimate, so you should be able to roughly deduce the potency of the cacti based on the yields, it was about an arms length from elbow to hand, and about the width of your calf at the middle.
Everything I post is made up fiction. SWIM represents a character who is not based in or on reality.
 
biopsylo
#16 Posted : 2/4/2011 2:52:23 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 752
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 15-Jun-2019
Location: green heart of caribou
what do you think of a fumaric boil instead of citric?

also, when reducing with heat, why down to 300ml? is it because it is easier to work with a small amount? it seems thick and syrupy. scum forms on surface. so you think there will be a loss in reducing, and skimming off all the scum?
 
narmz
#17 Posted : 2/4/2011 9:00:20 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 472
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 02-Jun-2018
any acid will work for the boil, SWIM just happened to have lots of citric on hand.

SWIM thought about this recently, SWIM reduced it to fit in a certain container which he had planned to do the next step in, so that'd why he reduced so low. He wonders about what may have been lost, but did not notice any sort of film deposit or anything crashing out and reduced at a very low temp.
Everything I post is made up fiction. SWIM represents a character who is not based in or on reality.
 
biopsylo
#18 Posted : 2/10/2011 2:27:17 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 752
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 15-Jun-2019
Location: green heart of caribou
350mg from 100g of dried pieces.
the fumarate is white and flows like baby powder. extremely bitter.
washing with dry ipa did not seem to remove any fumaric, as the ipa when evapped contained a minute amount of the same tasting stuff. ie, does not taste like fumaric acid. re dissolved a tiny fraction in water and got needle shards of clear crystal. not totally sure what is acid and what is mesc.
no bio essay yet, but sooon!

also, when dropping fasipa into limo, the cloud formed like a cylinder ring in the jar about 1/2 inch thick, and slowly sank to the bottom, but was far to whispy and did not crystalize like spice fumarates. had to pour the limo thru a coffee filter to catch the goods.
 
landfishd
#19 Posted : 2/10/2011 2:45:10 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 135
Joined: 05-Nov-2010
Last visit: 16-Mar-2013
^^^^ How long did you let the limo sit for after adding the FASIPA? After collecting did you add more to try and get more crystals? Just wondering as I will be doing this as soooon as I get my stuff in order.
 
narmz
#20 Posted : 2/10/2011 11:28:23 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 472
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Last visit: 02-Jun-2018
biopsylo wrote:
350mg from 100g of dried pieces.
the fumarate is white and flows like baby powder. extremely bitter.
washing with dry ipa did not seem to remove any fumaric, as the ipa when evapped contained a minute amount of the same tasting stuff. ie, does not taste like fumaric acid. re dissolved a tiny fraction in water and got needle shards of clear crystal. not totally sure what is acid and what is mesc.
no bio essay yet, but sooon!

also, when dropping fasipa into limo, the cloud formed like a cylinder ring in the jar about 1/2 inch thick, and slowly sank to the bottom, but was far to whispy and did not crystalize like spice fumarates. had to pour the limo thru a coffee filter to catch the goods.

Awesome! Thanks for testing! Yeah, the fumarates when you first pull them look like fumaric acid almost, because of how powdery they are. If nothing came out of the ipa, that means your first pull was mostly mesc (fumaric acid is soluble in ipa). SWIM thinks you will find more stuff falling out in the next couple days, and it will prolly have more fumaric acid contam than the first yield.
Everything I post is made up fiction. SWIM represents a character who is not based in or on reality.
 
123NEXT
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.045 seconds.