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Combining Rue with Caapi ? Options
 
Librarian
#1 Posted : 1/12/2011 10:54:19 AM

Etienne


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I recently bought 100gms of Mckenna red vine. Unfortunately they only sent 50 grams. The rest of the order will come in a few weeks time, apparently. That is much too late, though, since I want to journey on ayahuasca this coming weekend.
I've never taken Caapi before, but I don't think 50 grams will do the trick. Can't I just take the 50gms, but also dose another 150 mil harmala extract (extracted from rue) ?

Do you think it will still have the ayahuasca feel if taken this way ? Or will the rue harmalas dominate ?
I'm looking really forward to this, but if it doesn't mean experiencing ayahuasca in the classic sense, I would rather just take rue/mimosa, and wait the extra weeks for the rest of the Caapi to arrive.

Any thoughts or suggestions ?

The odours occasionally wafted from the laboratory were exceedingly strange. Sometimes they were noxious, but more often they were aromatic, with a haunting, elusive quality which seemed to have the power of inducing fantastic images.
People who smelled them had a tendency to glimpse momentary mirages of enormous vistas, with strange hills or endless avenues of sphinxes and hippogriffs stretching off into infinite distance.
- H.P. Lovecraft
 

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Enoon
#2 Posted : 1/12/2011 11:03:53 AM

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Having only experienced pharmahuasca so far, I'm not sure that there is a lot of difference between using caapi or rue alkaloids, especially if you only dose the harmalas for MAOI rather than a psychedelic dose in themselves. 50g of Caapi should be enough for MAOI as far as I know though. How much were you planning to brew? 50g of Caapi has about 600mg of alkaloids in it, probably more... and that's quite a big dose IMO. If you brew it properly (or better - extract) you should be getting a nice experience from it.

Let us know how it goes.

Cheers
Enoon
Buon viso a cattivo gioco!
---
The Open Hyperspace Traveler Handbook - A handbook for the safe and responsible use of entheogens.
---
mushroom-grow-help ::: energy conserving caapi extraction
 
Librarian
#3 Posted : 1/12/2011 1:33:28 PM

Etienne


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I was planning on brewing as traditionally as possible, to contrast aya with pharma. I wasn't sure if 50mgs of Caapi would be enough, based on on Ms Manic Minx's saying it varies between 50 and 150 mgs. I never clock in at the bottom of the scale, unfortunately.

Still, will try it anyway. If it isn't enough, I can just dose myself with the rue extract. Luckily mimosa isn't a problem. I might just brew up 5 grams worth of light tonight, in case the first dose doesn't take.

I'm curious to see how much the caapi alkaloids change the experience, if at all.


The odours occasionally wafted from the laboratory were exceedingly strange. Sometimes they were noxious, but more often they were aromatic, with a haunting, elusive quality which seemed to have the power of inducing fantastic images.
People who smelled them had a tendency to glimpse momentary mirages of enormous vistas, with strange hills or endless avenues of sphinxes and hippogriffs stretching off into infinite distance.
- H.P. Lovecraft
 
Global
#4 Posted : 1/12/2011 2:35:08 PM

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I believe you have your measurements mixed up. You have 50 grams of Caapi which doesn't mean you have 50 milligrams of the MAOI alkaloids. In other words your 50 grams of caapi should be enough for MAO inhibition.
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein

"The Mighty One appears, the horizon shines. Atum appears on the smell of his censing, the Sunshine- god has risen in the sky, the Mansion of the pyramidion is in joy and all its inmates are assembled, a voice calls out within the shrine, shouting reverberates around the Netherworld." - Egyptian Book of the Dead

"Man fears time, but time fears the Pyramids" - 9th century Arab proverb
 
Enoon
#5 Posted : 1/12/2011 11:55:41 PM

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50g of caapi could easily be 1g of alkaloids.

Would love to hear how it went. Do report if you can Smile

Godspeed
Buon viso a cattivo gioco!
---
The Open Hyperspace Traveler Handbook - A handbook for the safe and responsible use of entheogens.
---
mushroom-grow-help ::: energy conserving caapi extraction
 
Bancopuma
#6 Posted : 1/13/2011 12:50:40 AM

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I think you should be fine with that much caapi, at least for a good introduction. Back when I was using pharma, I used 30g of powdered caapi, and then I ingested a capsule of freebase DMT. This was a very effective way of doing it, but ingesting DMT that way definitely produced an experience distinct from that of proper ayahuasca. One time I combined Syrian Rue with caapi and it was one of the most intense and harrowing drug experiences I've ever been through. This was entirely my own personal experience so take it with a pinch of salt. But the caapi and Syrian Rue really seemed to hate each other. I like caapi as it gives me a nice clean purge...usually before things become too intense or unpleasant with pharma, the caapi forces me to purge, so it acts like a kind of safety barrier. Not so with Rue though, I just can't ever throw up on it, despite feeling very sick (again, this is just me). So on this experience, I found, very suddenly, that my nervous system, like a switch flicking on, felt like it was wired into a much higher voltage outlet than it should have been, feelings of electric terror were experiences, and the caapi wanted me desperately to purge, while the Rue wouldn't let me, so I had to experience many hours of darkness and terror. Taught me a sound lesson is respect though I guess. However from experience, I think there is a distinct difference in character between Rue and caapi, and in fact my time with Rue is over...I'm all about the caapi these days. It's cleansing in a way Rue simply isn't in my experience. Anyway, safe travels.. Wink
 
Librarian
#7 Posted : 1/13/2011 1:45:19 PM

Etienne


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Thanks for all the replies.Smile I guess I will try Caapi only. I'm glad what I have is enough. Doing my third brew as I am typing this.

@ Bancopuma - I was considering taking extracted dmt instead of brewing mimosa, but since you say it changes the flavor of the experience, I think I will just brew it. My stated intention is after all to have a traditional aya journey.
Also, your words have caused me to rethink mixing Caapi with Rue. Yikes, doesn't sound at all pleasant. Maybe one day I will combine them, when I have sufficient experience with both. But not for the first time.

Only thing that has me a bit worried is the possibility of a purge. I do have fresh ginger though, so it might not come to that. Guess I will just have to jump in and find out.

I will report back on the results.

Peace

The odours occasionally wafted from the laboratory were exceedingly strange. Sometimes they were noxious, but more often they were aromatic, with a haunting, elusive quality which seemed to have the power of inducing fantastic images.
People who smelled them had a tendency to glimpse momentary mirages of enormous vistas, with strange hills or endless avenues of sphinxes and hippogriffs stretching off into infinite distance.
- H.P. Lovecraft
 
Global
#8 Posted : 1/13/2011 1:48:57 PM

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Funny that you find the caapi to be nauseating but not with the rue, cause I routinely rely on rue to make me throw up Laughing
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein

"The Mighty One appears, the horizon shines. Atum appears on the smell of his censing, the Sunshine- god has risen in the sky, the Mansion of the pyramidion is in joy and all its inmates are assembled, a voice calls out within the shrine, shouting reverberates around the Netherworld." - Egyptian Book of the Dead

"Man fears time, but time fears the Pyramids" - 9th century Arab proverb
 
SHroomtroll
#9 Posted : 1/13/2011 1:52:02 PM

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Ive combined them a bunch of times just to be sure to get enough harmalas, just sprinkle a few grams of rue in dat caapi.
 
Bancopuma
#10 Posted : 1/13/2011 5:44:49 PM

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Hey Librarian,

I wouldn't worry too much about my experiences, we're all individuals and react differently to things, and I seem to be the exception as oppose to the norm here. I wouldn't worry about purging though, I would much rather purge when I want/need to, then to not be able to as happened that time. Syrian Rue and caapi I definitely have found to be distinct in character though, and while both make me nauseous at times, I can never ever purge on Rue, which has been really frustrating in the past. I'm not sure why this is.
 
polytrip
#11 Posted : 1/13/2011 5:53:06 PM
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I think harmala alkaloids are extremely synergistic toghether, so that combining caapi and rue means they both will potentiate eachothers effects.

I have a preference for caapi over rue, but all the times i added even a tiny amount of rue to caapi brews, the changes in experience where gigantic in the sense that the typical harmala effects dramatically increased.

My experiences with combining them are quite positive, but there is more dizzyness and physical effects than with caapi alone.
 
Tribal
#12 Posted : 1/13/2011 11:34:14 PM
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In my experience, 50g should be more than enough for two doses. SWIM recently extracted 50g of red vine and got 900mg harmalas from it. SWIM normally drinks twice in a night, which would make it 450mg of harmalas per drink if 50g of the same vine were used. That seems like way overkill to me. The vine does vary widely in alkaloid content though. I'd say if you do make a brew with 50g, only drink half to start.
 
Librarian
#13 Posted : 1/17/2011 11:47:20 AM

Etienne


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In conclusion, I brewed up the whole 50 mg of vine. I didn'tn brew any Mimosa. In the interest of speed, I used 85mg of extracted spice. I took the whole 50grams, and the results were disappointing. No visuals at all.Confused

Either I messed up the brewing, or the vine just wasn't that good.

I don't think I fudged the process. I did 5 brews of an hour each, with vinegar added for acidity. After the 3rd brew the water wasn't even discoloring anymore, which I assumed meant I got all the alkaloids. Still did two further brews.

I will have to wait for new vine to try again. I went with a diff vendor this time, ordering 250 grams of cielo vine from Maya. That ought to get me there. I have been led to believe cielo is much stronger than red vine.
Thanks for all the advice. Guess it just wasn't to be, this time.

The odours occasionally wafted from the laboratory were exceedingly strange. Sometimes they were noxious, but more often they were aromatic, with a haunting, elusive quality which seemed to have the power of inducing fantastic images.
People who smelled them had a tendency to glimpse momentary mirages of enormous vistas, with strange hills or endless avenues of sphinxes and hippogriffs stretching off into infinite distance.
- H.P. Lovecraft
 
endlessness
#14 Posted : 1/17/2011 12:01:32 PM

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Was the vine powdered? Did you mix the extracted spice in the brew or took afterwards? If afterwards, how (capsules, juice, etc) ?

Were there no visuals but no other effects either? Light-headedness/dizzyness? Tracers? Dilated pupils, changed perception?
 
Librarian
#15 Posted : 1/17/2011 12:30:18 PM

Etienne


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I had bought the vine whole, and then reduced it to (mostly) powder with the judicious use of a hammer. I took the extract afterwards, less than 5 minutes after. I disolved in orange juice.

I'm sure I felt light headedness, as well as changes in perception. This may have been placebo though, as I was expecting to feel that. Didn't check for pupil dilation.

The odours occasionally wafted from the laboratory were exceedingly strange. Sometimes they were noxious, but more often they were aromatic, with a haunting, elusive quality which seemed to have the power of inducing fantastic images.
People who smelled them had a tendency to glimpse momentary mirages of enormous vistas, with strange hills or endless avenues of sphinxes and hippogriffs stretching off into infinite distance.
- H.P. Lovecraft
 
godling
#16 Posted : 2/3/2011 1:07:21 AM

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so what is the census on combining caapi and rue??... swim is thinking of a combo this weekend.. 3-4g rue with 21g caapi,, with mimosa brew... i don't want to post another thread on the same topic.. so i'm not trying to hijack ur thread librarian
everything posted by godling is false information.. just imagination at work

I am learning not to search for eve anymore but to just 'be' with her for she is already the other half of my soul and one day we'll organically meet as we reach across the cosmos to one another..now comes the light of love

shine as bright as the flame in the pupil of my eye
 
polytrip
#17 Posted : 2/3/2011 8:14:52 PM
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With rue you would have to be a little more carefull than with caapi because you'll experience more side-effects with high doses of rue.

The amount of rue you suggest would be enough for full MAO inhibition on it's own.

I would rather go the other way round: a dominant dose of caapi, aided by a lower dose of rue.
So i would up the dose of caapi and do less rue.

If you only have 21 grams of caapi to go with, i would still use somewhat less rue. More like 2 grams.
 
godling
#18 Posted : 2/3/2011 11:51:39 PM

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polytrip wrote:
With rue you would have to be a little more carefull than with caapi because you'll experience more side-effects with high doses of rue.

The amount of rue you suggest would be enough for full MAO inhibition on it's own.

I would rather go the other way round: a dominant dose of caapi, aided by a lower dose of rue.
So i would up the dose of caapi and do less rue.

If you only have 21 grams of caapi to go with, i would still use somewhat less rue. More like 2 grams.



after extensive research... google.... it seems that the male rue and female caapi don't exactly like each other... ... any other's who have experienced this..


swim will most likely just save the caapi and go with rue..
everything posted by godling is false information.. just imagination at work

I am learning not to search for eve anymore but to just 'be' with her for she is already the other half of my soul and one day we'll organically meet as we reach across the cosmos to one another..now comes the light of love

shine as bright as the flame in the pupil of my eye
 
d-T-r
#19 Posted : 1/13/2012 11:20:18 AM

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any further opinions on the synergy of Rue and Caapi?

I've got 100mg of caapi copy left (equivalent to 20g Caapi ) and im not sure if it will provide enough inhibition for a 50g Chacruna brew. I was thinking of maybe just adding .8 - 1 g of syrian rue ,but the mixed reports are making me question if it's a wise idea or not.
 
ragabr
#20 Posted : 1/13/2012 2:31:45 PM

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Caapi Copy, with a very high confidence but not absolute certainty, is rue extracted harmalas, not caapi.
PK Dick is to LSD as HP Lovecraft is to Mushrooms
 
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