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Psychoactive Lichen!!!...Novel Entheogen needs Research! Options
 
#201 Posted : 11/29/2012 9:54:13 PM

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۩ wrote:
Lichen came up again in the chat today.
Someone speculated that
http://jlcheype.free.fr/...Parmelia_conspersa0.jpg
could be active.

There is an abundance growing on the mountains here overlooking the valleys of forest. These things grow directly on sandstone that has had shelves and bowls carved out into it (by natives I am guessing) directly underneath acorn trees on cliffs that are mesmerizingly beautiful.

I will soon collect some. I have contacted someone about possible lab analysis. I plan on allergy testing a very very very tiny amount orally and smoked. I will up my doses with days in between as to not cause any potential tolerance. I do not recommend anyone doing this because we are dealing with unknown and potentially toxic territories, this is why I am doing a standard allergy test. I will cease exploration upon the first hint of toxic effects.

Who knows if its anything worthy of exploration, but I figure the only way we are ever going to learn anything is by testing these things safely and intelligently one species at a time.

The reason I feel called to explore this particular lichen is because I have had some of the most profound experiences of my life in this area and I feel a tremendously deep connection with it. In fact, I moved across the USA to simply be near this environment. I find it rejuvenating more than anything. The longer I stay away from this kind of nature, the more stir crazy I get ;] I just think, WHAT IF, there was something psychedelic growing in this incredibly sacred space... With the way life goes, it would make sense to me.

Updates on microbioassy and hopefully possible lab analysis soon. If you or someone you know is interested in running samples, please PM me. Thanks. I sincerely apologize if moderators have a problem with this proposal.


I'm stoked you actually went out an got some samples to bioassay. Hopefully P. Conspersa is just the tip of the iceberg!
Love, Light, Peace

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Non Dua Natura
#202 Posted : 12/3/2012 8:05:06 PM

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I'd collected some Parmelia conspersa a week or so ago and left it to dry. It was a small quantity that I'd got mainly just to identify, but I decided to bioassay it tonight rather than just throw it out.

I ground up about 1-2 grams of the dried material in my weed grinder then rolled a joint with it. I didn't use tobacco, just smoked it as it was; the taste was pleasant, not unlike a milder lapsang souchong but earthier and less bonfire-like, the smoke was very smooth and even a long, slow, deep draw on it caused no discomfort. I only smoked around half of the joint as I want to test it again without having smoked anything else prior to it, but it seems to be mildly active as far as I can tell at this point.

Effect-wise, there was definitely noticeable change in the quality of visual perception although I can't say that I noticed anything occurring mentally. It did feel much like smoking cannabis, but there was something else there that I couldn't quite put my finger on; something 'missing' from the spectrum of sensations typical of being stoned, but exhibiting enough similarity to say "Hmm, this feels a bit like being stoned..."

It may have been entirely placebo-related, but I wanted to add it to the thread anyway and update in the future when I test it again.
When it blows, it stacks...
 
epoe
#203 Posted : 4/27/2013 12:18:14 AM

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Being Icelandic I can truly say that this thread surprises me. I've never heard of this lichen. Maybe it's just something a limited group of people do or did.
 
steppa
#204 Posted : 8/21/2013 1:43:58 PM

Yes


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Pretty calm in here for such an interesting topic. Is someone able to ID this beautiful looking one:




Everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end.
 
Jees
#205 Posted : 8/21/2013 2:16:44 PM

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1992 wrote:
Most lichen are edible, the ones that are a bright yellow are generally the toxic ones.

Good ole Avebury standing stones.
Jees attached the following image(s):
IMG_7770.jpg (225kb) downloaded 551 time(s).
 
MaNoMaNoM
#206 Posted : 9/24/2013 4:18:36 PM

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THAT IS SO BEAUTIFUL! ..Looks kind of like a yellow Parmela Conspersa.
Pleased
This paper lunch bag... It is filled 3/4th the way up with P. conspersa.
Collected from fallen branches of pecan, and pine trees, in one week.

I've smoked this before with very strong cannabinoid like effects.

Would a A/B using citric acid, NaHO, and naphtha solvent, be sufficient? Xylene be better?
Or some method used for cannabis, Or would just alcohol, Or just acetone, Or just water?

I read somewhere liverworts contains a cannabinoid that is extracted the same way as cannabis,
but that is all the information that was given about that.

In an oil to> alcohol extract maybe, Or just have to experiment, and find out.
*ALL WAYS WITH LOVE
 
SKA
#207 Posted : 11/29/2013 2:49:58 PM
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Interresting information Manomanom!

Now before we go drying & smoking all lichen we come across, bear in mind that some may
contain potent toxins. I feel we need more Chemical analysis of various Lichen-species first,
before we proceed to smoke them and test for psychoactive effects.

If anyone here is willing and able to perform in depth chemical analysis of the chemical constituents
of various Lichens that would be very helpfull. Also consider testing Lichens, and compounds extracted from them,
could be done on mice or rats first. You could determine the LD50 (and even some of the effects) this way without exposing yourself to it.

Keep researching Lichens for Psychoactive compounds, but do so with great care.
 
PrimalWisdom
#208 Posted : 1/31/2014 10:46:24 AM

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I was hoping this thread had kept going as I am extremely interested in this whole lichen thing and where it could lead.

Here's a bit of investigation I did:
I managed to collect a large quantity of P Conspersa after a storm in a forest nearby, it was literally covering the forest floor there was so much.

I collected a medium - large bag (30 litres or so) and packed it in real tight.
After drying at home I ground it up and weighed it at just under a kg. It's really light stuff so I had loads of powdered lichen.

I decided to use acetone and do a simple soak, similar to how I used to make cannabis oil/resin.

I let the lichen sit in the acetone for 3 days, shaking a few times a day. Filtered it a few times and then evaporated.

I was expecting an oil like cannabis, but it dried to a powder (maybe I should ave filtered more?)

I completely forgot to weigh the final product but there was quite a bit, maybe a coffee cup full or so.

1 bowl of the extract produced a nice relaxing cannabis like high, with some sound distortion. It was definitely waaaay more noticeable than just smoking the plain lichen. and I had no side-effects, and the smoke was pleasant.

I plan to collect more as soon as winter rolls round again and try a few different extractions but knowing what exactly was in it would be a lot more re-assuring, and would help decide on the best extraction method.

Anyone else done any lichen exploring lately?

Peace
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birthing golden vibrations,
that echo through folds of space & time,
ferry my soul closer to God

 
SKA
#209 Posted : 1/31/2014 3:19:01 PM
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Thanks for bumping up this old topic again.

I would have extensively researched Lichen would I have had access to a Gaschromatographer (and know how to work with it), but unfortunately I don´t. I do igmire your courage to smoke P.Conspersa extract, PrimalWisdom as who knows: it may contain potent toxins.

Allthough I once carefully smoked a joint with humble amounts of Lichens I found, I myself still shy away from smoking significant amounts or extracts of Lichens as I fear they just might contain gnarly & potent toxins. Before I feel confident smoking significant amoounts of Lichens or their extracts, I want to be reasonably sure that no harmfull toxins are present in there.

I know several nexus members here DO have access to Gaschromatographers and know how to use them. I suggested that
they should sample various Lichens they could find, properly ID them with their Latin name & then run them through a Gaschromatographer to analyse it's chemical constituents. And for them to report back said analytic results here in this topic. No one has done so yet unfortunately.

I remember these nexus members did this for various Acacias in an Acacia chem-analysis topic in the plants testing & analysis sub-forum.If you, those nexians who made those acacia analysises & graphs, could do the same for various Lichen species and report back results here that could get us off of the cold trail we're currently stuck at in this Lichen-case Razz
 
caban
#210 Posted : 2/24/2014 1:29:34 AM
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It is no longer classified in Parmelia it has been moved to Xanthoparmelia.

DESCRIPTION: Thallus closely or loosely attached to the rock, rather shiny, commonly browned at the margins; lobes fairly narrow, 1-3 mm wide, crowded and often overlapping, with sparse to dense globular to branched cylindrical isidia on the upper surface, sometimes also developing abundant lobules in the center of the thallus; lower surface pith black except for a pale to dark brown area close to lobe tips, apothecia rare, with isidiate margins. HABITAT: on siliceous rocks, especially granite, in sunny locations.
CHEMISTRY: medulla PD+ red-orange, K+ deep yellow or turning red, KC-, C- (stictic acid complex including cryptostictic acid, with varying amounts of norstictic acid).
COMMENTS: This is the most common of the isidiate species that contain stictic and (or) norstictic acid and have a black lower surface. In the chemically identical X. plittii the lower suface is pale to dark brown throughout. Similar but much rarer southeastern species include the X. isidiascens, with a loosely attached thallus lacking cryptostictic acid, and X. piedmontensis, with fumaroprotocetraric acid (PD+ red, K- or brownish) Specimens with few isidia can be mistaken for X. angustiphylla, a sister species that lacks isidia and has an Appalachian-Great Lakes and southwestern distribution. IMPORTANCE: this lichen reportedly has been used in southeastern and eastern africa for the treatment of veneral disease and snakebite.

Transcribed from Brodo, Sharnoff & Sharnoff. Lichens of North America. p. 735.
 
caban
#211 Posted : 2/24/2014 1:40:10 AM
listen a little mroe closely to the subtle rhythms of life


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SKA- I respect your passion. I must unfortunately remind you that: Identifying lichens is much more challenging than identifying Angiosperms, LD-50 test require great resources, gas-chromatographs, are indeed challenging to sample prep, develop methods for, and then analyze the data from.
Acacia spp. is much simpler, one knows what they are looking for.

Primal wisdom, Would you be into me sending samples of said lichen (un-ground!) to a friends house of mine who can pass it onto me? I know a botanist with proclivities for lichens and secondary metabolite's who might be able to take time out of their schedule for assistance in regards to bio-analysis.
 
Bancopuma
#212 Posted : 6/5/2014 2:22:54 PM

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Knarkkorven
#213 Posted : 1/10/2015 6:31:19 PM

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Dictyonema huaorani - Psilocybin in a lichen

I see this news has not been reported at DMT Nexus yet.

Dictyonema has been mentioned a number of times in this thread. Now, we finally know why it's considered psychoactive! Psilocybin, (and/or 5-MeO-DMT & 5-MeO-NMT) have been found in the lichen Dictyonema huaorani!

Photo of Dictyonema huaorani

Unfortunately, this species seem to be very rare and this is the only collection in the world. But it shows us that there still are interesting things out there, waiting to be discovered! The future of lichen research might show us more promising results.

Quote:
Dictyonema huaorani (Agaricales: Hygrophoraceae), a new lichenized basidiomycete from Amazonian Ecuador with presumed hallucinogenic properties

Michaela Schmull, Manuela Dal-Forno, Robert Lücking, Shugeng Cao, Jon Clardy, and James D. Lawrey
The Bryologist Winter 2014 : Vol. 117, Issue 4, pg(s) 386-394 doi: 10.1639/0007-2745-117.4.386

Dictyonema huaorani, a new species represented by a well-developed specimen found in the Ecuadorian Amazon region, is described in this paper. The material was collected during a Harvard ethnobotanical expedition in 1981 and originally determined by Mason E. Hale Jr. as belonging in the genus Dictyonema (D. sericeum s.lat.) and possibly representing an undescribed species. The species is morphologically distinctive in forming densely woven, semicircular thalli, closely resembling those of the paleotropical D. ligulatum but lacking clamps and with hyphal sheath around the photobiont filaments that resembles those of Cyphellostereum species. The species was reported to have hallucinogenic properties and chemical analyses suggest certain substances present that are shared with the hallucinogenic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis. Due to our inability to use pure reference compounds and scarce amount of sample for compound identification, however, our analyses were not able to determine conclusively the presence of hallucinogenic substances.

http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1639/0007-2745-117.4.386


from the full article:

Quote:
Chemical analyses.The preliminary analysis performed on an Agilent 1200 Series HPLC showed a peak with the same molecular weight (160 Da), UV spectrum and retention time (12.6 min) as tryptamine. Trace amounts of tryptamine can be found in mammal brains, where it is considered to play a role as a neurotransmitter and serotonin-releasing agent (Jones 1982). The subsequent, refined analysis on the Waters showed tryptamine (tR2.69), 5-MeO-DMT (tR6.14) and psilocybin (tR5.79) with identifications based on database values.

...

The alternative analysis on the Agilent 6530 QTOF LC/MS with dual spray ESI source showed the likely presence of 5-methoxy-N-methyl-tryptamine, 5-methoxy-dimethyl-tryptamine, and 5-methoxy tryptamine, but again these identifications were based on database values, not authentic samples. All together, the results are suggestive of the presence of tryptamine and psilocybin in Dictyonema huaorani, but comparison of larger amounts of fresh material of this species with authentic standards are necessary to confirm these tentative findings.


also read this:

Quote:
I contacted Michaela Schmull at the Harvard Herbarium, who was able to forward me this magnificent scan. Now I can share the story here!

This is a scan of the thallus, or vegetative structure, of Dictyonema huaorani. This specimen was collected in 1981 by Wade Davis and Jim Yost, two explorers in eastern Amazonian Ecuador conducting ethnobotanical research with the Waorani people. Yost had heard rumours of this lichen for seven years before finally locating this individual. To date, this is still the only known specimen in existence. As you can see by the label, this lichen was found growing on rotting wood near the confluence of the Quiwado and Tiwaneo rivers in Napo state. Known as nɇnɇndapɇ by the Waorani, the lichen has been used by "bad" shamans to curse others and also been noted to cause severe headaches. It was reputed to potentially have hallucinogenic properties.

The unidentified specimen was forwarded to Dr. Mason Hale, who suggested that it might be a species of Dictyonema, perhaps similar to Dictyonema sericeum. A conclusive identification would not be made for another forty years--this past November! A team of scientists sampled the specimen's DNA and found it to be an as-yet unrecognized species, which they named Dictyonema huaorani. Even more fascinating, they were able tentatively ascertain the presence of psychoactive compounds: tryptamines and psilocybin. Psilocybin is notably found in the infamous Psilocybe cubensis (though also in least 200 other species of fungi), but this is one of the first publications indicating psychoactive compounds in lichens!

http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/potd/201...ma-huaorani.php


 
endlessness
#214 Posted : 1/10/2015 6:36:35 PM

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Wow fascinating!

Thanks for sharing !


Edit: Just checked the paper, and it was based on predicted values/spectra, they did not have reference standards. Also they only detected what they considered to be psilocybin on one of the methods, using the other method they didnt find it, which is weird.

Im wondering if they could tell appart bufotenine from psilocin/cybin using that method.
 
wira
#215 Posted : 1/11/2015 1:25:51 PM

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Thanks very much for that, Knarkkorven. I'd have been happy just knowing it had been properly identified! Now to find the full paper...
 
Knarkkorven
#216 Posted : 1/11/2015 1:44:56 PM

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Quote:
Now to find the full paper...

attached to this post Smile
 
wira
#217 Posted : 1/11/2015 2:16:25 PM

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You are a legend Very happy
 
downwardsfromzero
#218 Posted : 1/15/2015 5:59:18 AM

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Hooray for Knarkkorven for grtting this thread rolling again! Fascinating stuff... maybe the rock boiling tale is in some way related. Maybe even "lichenhuasca" Confused
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

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PsilocybeChild
#219 Posted : 9/7/2015 1:07:35 AM

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Hello,

I've read this thread about certain species of lichen being psychoactive. In the past I've tried two species. I thought one looked like the one I'm about to post.

Grabbed a nice patch of it and some small species while out hiking. And smoked pieces out've a clean bong. It felt like a nice high. Mild compared to the steroided up cannabis strains of today, but still strong enough where I wouldn't mind having a constant supply. The high is slightly clearer. Almost like a nootropic cannabis. It seems to have less potential for anxiety while slowing your reaction time. But I guess pot does that as well. It also seems a little fleeting and shorter in duration than cannabis.

Perhaps potency occurs during a certain time of the year.
Anyone know the species? I wonder if the best ROA might be oral rather than smoking.
Though that may be more dangerous exploring specimens with unknown chemistry
PsilocybeChild attached the following image(s):
1.jpg (262kb) downloaded 74 time(s).
2.jpg (245kb) downloaded 74 time(s).
3.jpg (238kb) downloaded 72 time(s).
 
PsilocybeChild
#220 Posted : 9/30/2016 8:59:17 AM

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Quote:
“It was the most intense hallucinogenic experience that I’ve ever had, and I’ve done every trip there is,” says Icelandic writer Smari Einarsson. “DMT, peyote… you name it. We have these magic mushrooms here that grow wild. I’ve eaten those more times than I can count. They cannot even come close to the effect of these rocks.” Volcanic rocks, which cover the Icelandic landscape, have been getting local kids high for five years now, ever since a local artist did a performance piece called Rock Soup. Jon Sigmundson’s art piece was meant to make a commentary on Icelanders’ high standard of living, which he believes relies on taking for granted third-world suffering. He made Rock Soup, he said in a written statement, to “try and live on nothing.” The serendipitous discovery he made is that these rocks get you fuggin’ wasted.

It is actually the lichen that lives on the rocks that gets you off. You take a few stones, boil them in a pot of water, strain it all through a colander, and drink it down like tea. Some people add ginger and honey, but it supposedly has a nice taste undiluted. It’s very earthy. People, who have ‘taken stones’, as it’s called, share strikingly similar stories. “Trolls,” says a young Icelandic girl who was interviewed at the local Reykjavik bar Sirkus. “Every time we do stones, we see the same group of trolls. They are no unkind, but they aren’t overly friendly either,” she says. “Mostly what they do is advise you. You always come away from a stones trip with a question that you had on your mind answered. You also have the most vivid colours ever. It’s like living in Fantasia!”

Alex Shulgin also references to psychoactive lichen, in PiKAL (1991), as a source of synthetic tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). Shulgin, however, is talking about a different species of lichen to the one referenced in Stoned on Stones. Shulgin, in this case, is referring to lichen known as Evernia prunastri. The different psychoactive effects of Parmotrema menyamyaense and Evernia prunastri would be detectable upon reflection after reading both the quoted trip report above and Shulgin’s reference to THC within PiKAL.


http://psypressuk.com/20.../03/psychedelic-lichen/

Collema flaccidum purportedly contains bufotenin.

That one species that is reported as like a psychedelic that gets icelanders high is also available from two online shops.
 
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