Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
 
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
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SyZyGyPSy wrote:Ok so speaking of volcanoes... Swim just tried his first sodium carbonate attempt. He cooked his mhrb in vinegar in a crock pot overnite, then poured it into a gallog jug (still plenty of room left in the jug). The jug was kept warm in a hot water bath in a crock pot until swim was ready to basify. When he added the sodium carbonate, a hellacious foaming reaction occurred. Swim was suddenly reminded of those vinegar/baking soda volcanoes they used to make in science class when he was a kid. Apparently that happens with sodium carbonate too, eh?
So first off, swim wants to warn people to be aware of this reaction.
Second, anyone got any suggestions how to deal with this? Seriously there's a RIDICULOUS amount of foam and swim hasn't even finished adding sodium carbonate yet. How can he get rid of this stuff so as to continue on with his extraction? He already tried adding a little limonene (his np solvent) but that didn't seem to do anything to reduce the foam...
Any help = much appreciation! Thanks for bringing this thing up. It should have been mentioned on the original post ( it is edited now) because yes, sodium carbonate foams a lot when thrown into acidic solution. Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 27-Apr-2024 Location: Jungle
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any idea how long it takes to settle, or if it does settle at all or if foam continues for very long? SWIM was thinking of using sodium carbonate in harmala extraction. Given that he will have just redissolved the harmala salts in fresh water, there shouldnt be much acid to make the reaction with s. carbonate, so I guess it wont be such a problem, but still interesting to know
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Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
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endlessness wrote:any idea how long it takes to settle, or if it does settle at all or if foam continues for very long? SWIM was thinking of using sodium carbonate in harmala extraction. Given that he will have just redissolved the harmala salts in fresh water, there shouldnt be much acid to make the reaction with s. carbonate, so I guess it wont be such a problem, but still interesting to know Not really much, SWIM has never timed it. But it is the same as taking a, say, half full coca cola bottle and shaking it; carbon dioxide will be liberated and the coca cola will foam, then it is going to take some time to settle. Around one minute I would guess but it could be slightly longer. Definitely NOT more than 5 min. Hope that helps! Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4804 Joined: 08-Dec-2008 Last visit: 18-Aug-2023 Location: UK
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Infundibulum wrote:soulfood wrote:Just a question of caution.
If one buys bi-carb of soda then converts it to sodium carbonate, can it still be stored safely in it's original container? Absolutely! Thanks 
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 440 Joined: 08-Sep-2008 Last visit: 07-Sep-2019 Location: top left corner of a £20 note
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endlessness wrote:any idea how long it takes to settle, or if it does settle at all or if foam continues for very long? SWIM was thinking of using sodium carbonate in harmala extraction. Given that he will have just redissolved the harmala salts in fresh water, there shouldnt be much acid to make the reaction with s. carbonate, so I guess it wont be such a problem, but still interesting to know Swim has used sodium carbonate with a phosphoric acid harmala extraction, it did foam up but only for a few moments (swim first put the carbonate in water and then added it small bits a a time). Worked quite well although the result did need cleaning. Here you!!! Gonnaenodaethat
"Iceberg???? - What Iceberg????"
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 169 Joined: 06-Jan-2009 Last visit: 06-Jan-2011 Location: Jesus Land
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swim has been trying so hard to find lye, fuck it now, im using this... ill be using citric acid, ill let everyone know how it goes... For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole Armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. - Ephesians 6:12-13
GHM is an internet handle, a fictional one at that, the person I portray in no way depicts real life actions and or opinions. After all, whats the internet for besides pretending to be someone you arent! Also, no girls do not really hate me.
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Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
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Just note that sodium carbonate is not suitable for STB, only A/B  Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 169 Joined: 06-Jan-2009 Last visit: 06-Jan-2011 Location: Jesus Land
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I was under the impression a/b was better, ive seen info that says its just the same, but I dont like the idea of using a bucket of lye to extract. Im not making ludafisk or soap, or processing corn...or making meth...so screw lye... For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole Armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. - Ephesians 6:12-13
GHM is an internet handle, a fictional one at that, the person I portray in no way depicts real life actions and or opinions. After all, whats the internet for besides pretending to be someone you arent! Also, no girls do not really hate me.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
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Those so called “STB” techs are still technically A/B techs because you have an aqueous layer with the lye and a non-polar layer with the naphtha. What’s mostly different between the “STB” tech and a standard A/B tech is how it’s started. In a standard A/B tech you start by extracting the alkaloids from the plant matter in water by boiling the plant matter or letting it soak for several days in alcohol or something similar. In an “STB” tech you put the plant matter in a solution of strong base. The base is supposed to eat away at the plant matter helping to liberate the alkaloids and freebase them at the same time. The strong basic solution serves the same purpose as boiling does in a standard tech. It helps break down the plant matter and liberate the alkaloids. It also unfortunately destroys many alkaloids. A pH of 12 or higher will destroy 5-HO-DMT (bufotenine), 4-HO-DMT, and many other similar alkaloids. Because of this, these high pH STB techs won’t work on Yopo or Vilca where the main alkaloid 5-HO-DMT is simply destroyed by the base. You can perform an “STB” style tech using calcium hydroxide. That’s available in some grocery stores and on-line and isn’t a watched chemical like sodium hydroxide is in some areas. To do an “STB” on mimosa using calcium hydroxide, you powder the mimosa very finely. You thoroughly mix 2 parts mimosa with 1 part calcium hydroxide by weight. Then you add enough water to make a thick stew out of it. The pH will reach 12.4. You mix that for 5 minutes and let it sit overnight. Then you extract with heptane, or naphtha 3 times. Let your solvent evaporate a little and then freeze precipitate, or just let the solvents completely evaporate. The results are as good as the STB techs using sodium hydroxide if it’s done right. This also works for cactus to extract mescaline if the solvent is xylene (but then you also need to salt it out of the xylene). You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 169 Joined: 06-Jan-2009 Last visit: 06-Jan-2011 Location: Jesus Land
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Calcium Hydroxide is the proven standard for maintaining calcium concentration and alkalinity in closed marine aquaria. Also known as hydrated lime. (for anybody who gets frustrated with figuring out what some of this stuff is, like me) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole Armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. - Ephesians 6:12-13
GHM is an internet handle, a fictional one at that, the person I portray in no way depicts real life actions and or opinions. After all, whats the internet for besides pretending to be someone you arent! Also, no girls do not really hate me.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 71 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 11-Aug-2012
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69ron wrote:You can perform an “STB” style tech using calcium hydroxide. That’s available in some grocery stores and on-line and isn’t a watched chemical like sodium hydroxide is in some areas. To do an “STB” on mimosa using calcium hydroxide, you powder the mimosa very finely. You thoroughly mix 2 parts mimosa with 1 part calcium hydroxide by weight. Then you add enough water to make a thick stew out of it. The pH will reach 12.4. You mix that for 5 minutes and let it sit overnight. Then you extract with heptane, or naphtha 3 times. Let your solvent evaporate a little and then freeze precipitate, or just let the solvents completely evaporate. The results are as good as the STB techs using sodium hydroxide if it’s done right. This also works for cactus to extract mescaline if the solvent is xylene (but then you also need to salt it out of the xylene). Im interested to see if anyone has used this ratio successfully doing a STB as described above using calcium hydroxide. Is the above mentioned 2 parts mimosa to 1 part calcium hydroxide a workable ratio? Happiness and peace. Those are really the prime issues in human existence. That is what all of us are seeking. ~ H. Gunaratana Mahathera
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 281 Joined: 21-Apr-2009 Last visit: 12-Nov-2012 Location: US
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SWIM thought the whole point of a pH of 13 for STB was to break down down the bark if not complete ground up. SWIM believes 13+ isnt required unless you want to completely break down organic matter. Having a higher pH DOES however lower the chance of thick emulsion. SWIM can investigate this soon. Not using Lye would lower the radar on spice production significantly. SWIM might also have to invest in a new pet. SWIM has always wanted a pet fish. Now where to put it... edit - Fixed typo and stuff All illegal narcotics are medicinal. Boredom is a disease worse than cancer. Drugs cure it, with little or no side effects if used as directed - Doug Stanhope.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
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