i wanted to ask if the patrons of this forum think that lucid dreams operate only within the realm of our subconsious mind. I do believe that on dmt swim is being givin the opportunity to see another world/dimension or realm that really does exist but we are conditioned to the point where we are not conscious or aware of it and dmt allows us access to that realm or dimension.Do you think lucid dreaming is "on the same playing field" or is it simply the world of our subconscious mind or imagination.Swims last trip "he" encountered,what "he" believes to be beings of another world or dimension.A week later he had his first ever lucid dream by accident(he awoke in his dream) and he was in another world with similar looking beings, it was amazing.Do you think that was his subconscious reacting to his dmt experience or is it all a part of the same thing.Was his lucud dream based on imagination or is there somthing bigger happening?i dont know if the experienced travelers have the answers but swim wants to start practicing lucid dreaming and continue his elf spice journeys because he feels they are possibly connected (pineal gland).Have any of you ever tried Silene capensis (african dream root)? i've heard some good things about it and just recieved some in the mail,so we'll see.Anyway if you'd be so kind to give me your feedback or thoughts it would be greatly appreciated. -Dan

yes, sometimes swim will find a glass pipe in his dream and then ahvea full blown dmt experience.

or, sometimes it just happens and a face for example, of swim's ex girlfriend, (current at the time) will materialise in a DMT elf pattern fashion infront of swim's eyelids causing swim to wake up.

I dont know, I´ve wondered about this many times.. but I feel there is some big difference to dreams and trip. Dreams may have the crazy images and weird connections of facts, places and people that in a way resembles psychedelia, but I feel that in many other ways dreams are very ´unpsychedelic´.. There is some sort of distinct visual in psychedelics, some inner feeling, its quite difference (at least what I can remember in this state of consciousness)

so I dont think sleep and tripping are the same or on the same level. the similarity is that they are both alternative states of consciousness, each with its own characteristics. As to whether its true that one is only individual unconscious while the other accesses another dimension, I dont know.

btw, I have recently tried in lucid dreams to get a pipe and smoke dmt, see if I can really trip, but I always woke up before I was able to get some good puffs.. might work sometime soon, lets see what happens

endlessness,
I agree that they are on totally different levels but i cant help but to think they are somehow connected and that maybe you can access "that realm" within a lucid dream, at the same time it could simply be our subconscious imagination being affected by the dmt experience (i'd like to believe the former).Also,on a related yet different topic, has anyone had an obe (out of body experience) that they have willed.The other night before going to sleep,i was laying in bed and was doing breathing exercises and was trying to imagine myself leaving my body.Oddly enough i was able to get the feeling that i was floating or had risen an inch or two off the bed (not that i had left my body) and as i was starting to lift, my body got those heavy vibrations that we get as we start to blast off on a dmt trip which is also similar to the higher states of kundalini meditation.As soon as i would lift a little, i would get these vibrations and i would consciously take notice of it and i would come back down and i did this several times.Has anyone ever experienced something similar to this or have suggestions to continue or further this practice?

The common point between LD and DMT trips is that both are "visually intense" and quickly changing. But in LD you have a "dream body", while in a heavy DMT trip the reference to the body is seriously modified. Also in LD there is a possibility to control or create things which does not seem possible with DMT (not for my friend at least).

It would be interresting to know if someone remember having 'read' something while on DMT. It is impossible in LD, words are always changing and I never had a clue about why.

I don't think there is a direct chemical link between the two experiences but my friend can say without any doubt that smoking DMT seriously increased the quantity and duration of his LDs (usually the next night) !
If I would be a mystic I would say that the DMT opened (forced ) my friend's 'third eye', allowing a easier acces to LD.
I tend to think that both experiences are different ways of becoming aware of unconscious processes, but I agree that it look likes so rich and sometimes so 'alien' that it is hard to believe that we are the only source of thoses experiences.

Yes! I've had a nearly identical experience. I use a breathing and visualization practice. Laying on my back, as I inhale deeply I visualize multi-colored streams of energy, or light being drawn into my body through my feet. I then exhale deeply, pause at the "zero breath" point, and inhale again drawing the colored energy / light further up through my body. I can feel my body being warmed as I draw the energy up further and further, breath by breath. Once I draw the energy up to my shoulders I visualize it running down through my arms and out through my fingers. I then continue to draw it up, with each deep breath, through my head, until it's exiting through the top of my head as well as out my finger tips. Once I have this energy flowing through my complete being, as a constant flowing stream, I continue the breathing and visualization. When I do it right I will feel my body lifting off the bed (just as you mentioned) along with a sense of complete weightlessness. I too get excited at this point and lose my concentration / focus, and snap back to being grounded. I need more practice at it, but I've heard of people using this technique to a point where they are floating up in a corner of the room and looking back at their body. I haven't been there yet, but would like to!
I don't find it at all like DMT though. With the spice my entire body explodes into fragments until there is nothing left except the "energy" that is my being. This meditation technique leaves my body in tact, but weightless... I've never done PCP or K, but I've heard people likening this experience to a PCP or Ketamine trip in some ways.

dmt is dreaming, dreaming is dmt.

I agree w/ everyone that they are two extremely different experiences for many obvious reasons.Although for some reason i do think there is some sort of link between the two ,mabey because dmt is an endigonous molecule and smoking it some how makes it more active when the pineal releases in sleep (who knows?).

In my experience my earlier dreams when I'm first falling asleep seem more psychedelic, they are more random and have more what can be considered visuals. Does anyone else see the flickering patterns of light when you close your eyes before sleep? The way I fall asleep is that they start turning into vague images, most of the time they turn into faces/people.. and they'll start talking amongst themselves. It feels often times like I'm at a party and I'm just observing people talking. This is typically how I get started on sleeping, and I've had the same exact experiences on psilo. I think our consciousness is a result of what can be considered a product of multiple personalities all talking to each other. This is probably my unconscious surfacing.

I've also been aware (awake) during the transition period between being awake and falling asleep (or a part of it anyway). I'm very curious if anyone else felt this. It's like when you're yawning and your ears feel like they're overloaded with a loud sound. My body also cramps up and in REM I believe your body immobilizes itself because you don't want to be moving while dreaming. My DMT trips start this way.

As the night progresses, my dreams tend to start having more structure, so it gets away from being psychedelic.

I think they cross paths, and IME they do so at the beginning of sleep.

When i close my eyes to sleep i do see similar patterns to a dmt experience but it is very faint and if i focus on them they become stronger. I recently purchased some silene capensis (African dream root)A particular tribe in africa supposedly uses it to call upon ancestors to ask questions about life,it also is suppose to enhance the dreams significantly and help w/ lucid draming.I havent started taking it yet,because i have to grind up the roots which is a little bit annoying so i bought a strong blender and food processor.But Dreaming is very powerful and i want to persue the practice of lucid dreaming and mabey even AP.Just like meditation it takes discipline and patience (two attributes that are not my strong points but i'm getting better)

yeah im trying to get into lucid dreaming as well. I've done it twice and both times I was making out with a girl. Pretty cool stuff.

I need to actively try to do those lucid dreaming-inducing exercises.

I also need to meditate daily, not like every other day.

DMT and psilo I think has helped me be better at both.