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All About Salvia Dosing Options
 
gibran2
#1 Posted : 11/14/2010 3:27:47 PM

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Many users of DMT weigh their doses, but it seems that few users of salvia extracts do the same, even though (depending on extract strength) a dose of salvia extract may be significantly smaller than a dose of DMT.

Salvinorin A (and other salvinorins) are the most potent naturally occurring psychoactive substances known. In spite of this, users routinely consume highly concentrated extracts without measuring their doses. It’s no surprise that many novice users have horrific experiences and that salvia isn’t looked at by many as the entheogen that it is.

A threshold dose of salvinorin A is about 200μg (micrograms), a moderately strong dose is about 1mg, and an uncomfortably strong dose is 2-3mg.

A gram of plain salvia leaf contains about 2.5mg salvinorin A. The salvinorin A content per gram of legitimate extracts (of which there are very few these days) is just the average content of plain leaf multiplied by the “X-factor” of the extract.

So a gram of 20X salvia should contain roughly 2.5 x 20 = 50mg of salvinorin A. A gram of 6X would contain 15mg salvinorin A, and a gram of 60X would contain 150mg. Notice that a gram of legitimate 60X extract contains enough salvinorin A for 150 moderately strong doses, and that each dose weighs less than 7mg. A gram of 400X extract would contain 1000mg salvinorin A (400X extract is pure salvinorin A) – it isn’t possible to have a stronger extract.

The weight of a moderately strong dose of extract can be estimated by: 400 / ”X-factor” = dose in milligrams. So a moderately strong dose of 15X is: 400 / 15 = 27mg. A moderately strong dose of 80X is: 400 / 80 = 5mg.

Higher “X-factors” don’t equal deeper experiences. It just means that less product must be consumed to reach a desired level. Anything beyond 20X extract is unnecessary and difficult to accurately measure without a sub-milligram accuracy scale. If you find that 20mg of 20X extract isn’t providing at least moderate breakthrough experiences, then the extract is probably not really 20X.

For everything you’ve ever wanted to know about salvia, visit The Salvia divinorum Research and Information Center.
gibran2 is a fictional character. Any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental.
 

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Metanoia
#2 Posted : 11/15/2010 3:51:04 AM

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I actually do weigh my doses of extract when I do partake. I have a 25x (bought from a vendor) which I think is actually more like a true 15x. I have a scale accurate to 1mg and I use that every time I smoke extract, even my 5x. Plain leaf I don't usually weigh out, but have. It takes roughly 300mg of plain leaf to give me pronounced sub-breakthrough effects. I have broken through with 500mg of plain leaf. My 25x (probably more like 15x) it only takes 15mg to produce pronounced sub-breakthrough effects. 25mg is a guaranteed breakthrough. Anything over 35mg is too much, and I have extreme difficulty remembering much of the experience.

Not everyone has a scale accurate to within 1mg, but if you're working with anything above 5x, it is a very valuable tool. Eyeballing doses of 20x is just not a good idea. You're right about Salvia not being seen as the entheogen it is because of extreme overdosing. Lack of respect and impatience is the main problem, IMO. Because of it's reverse tolerance effect, people might not get much from it the first couple times around. It takes time to cultivate a relationship, and unfortunately in our society many are looking for instant gratification. It really is the most potent naturally occurring substance known at present, and should be treated as such. Treated as you should treat a beautiful lady you want to spend the rest of your life with.
gibran2 wrote:
Homecoming, family, impish children singing, a circus, physical transformation, physical blossoming, loss of self, 1950’s suburbia, green grass, blue skies, turning into a tent, all of reality becoming a 2-dimensional sheet, layers of reality, seeing neighboring realities that are just a millimeter away from ours, truths revealed and then quickly hidden, a carnival, paranoia – realizing everyone else “knows”, physically turning inside-out, a whole world made of tiles or blocks, emotional flatness, feeling you could stay “there” if you made the choice, true home, disappointment with this “plain” reality on return, multi-dimensional…
 
gibran2
#3 Posted : 11/15/2010 4:04:27 AM

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Dioxippus wrote:
I actually do weigh my doses of extract when I do partake. I have a 25x (bought from a vendor) which I think is actually more like a true 15x. I have a scale accurate to 1mg and I use that every time I smoke extract, even my 5x...

Ahh… If only everyone were like us – what a perfect world it would be! Wink
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Metanoia
#4 Posted : 11/15/2010 10:38:35 PM

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gibran2 wrote:
Dioxippus wrote:
I actually do weigh my doses of extract when I do partake. I have a 25x (bought from a vendor) which I think is actually more like a true 15x. I have a scale accurate to 1mg and I use that every time I smoke extract, even my 5x...

Ahh… If only everyone were like us – what a perfect world it would be! Wink

Laughing Agreed. I think people could enjoy Salvia a lot more if they took these steps. Just packing a big bowl of an extract you have no real idea of the potency of isn't really the best way to experience something like Salvia. Also taking the time to ease into it, with plain leaf, is a great way to get accustomed to the effects before you have your reality completely shattered Very happy
gibran2 wrote:
Homecoming, family, impish children singing, a circus, physical transformation, physical blossoming, loss of self, 1950’s suburbia, green grass, blue skies, turning into a tent, all of reality becoming a 2-dimensional sheet, layers of reality, seeing neighboring realities that are just a millimeter away from ours, truths revealed and then quickly hidden, a carnival, paranoia – realizing everyone else “knows”, physically turning inside-out, a whole world made of tiles or blocks, emotional flatness, feeling you could stay “there” if you made the choice, true home, disappointment with this “plain” reality on return, multi-dimensional…
 
Lavos
#5 Posted : 11/30/2010 5:02:19 PM

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Holy Cow man, this is important knowledge. Jesus, most new users are taking 5-20 times what they should be. Like taking 8 hits of x at once before you are experienced. I'm really blown away at my own ignorance of this a few months ago.

I tried salvia a few times. Always a full bowls worth. I'd previously purchased a 10x and cleared the bowl with only sub-breakthrough feelings/visions. So when I sat down with my 15x, I dumped half the bag out, loaded half of that into a small glass bong, and the other half in a small pipe, and cleared them back to back before effects took hold. I had somewhere in the range of 350-450 mg of 15x. That's only about 16x what a 'moderately strong' dose is. Of course I broke through, but it was also the most unimaginable and crazy scary thing that had ever happened to me. I wasn't ready for that.

Thanks for sharing this gibran, I'll surely use a mg scale when dosing with extract again. Just leaf til then.
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The path of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. -William Blake

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justine
#6 Posted : 11/30/2010 5:22:08 PM

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That's funny I was about to ask about dosage since I would like to make my own extract (on mullein) for my first experience with salvia.
By the way if someone could point me to a reliable salvia leaf supplier in the eu (but outside nl if possible) that would be great Smile
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neverwas
#7 Posted : 11/30/2010 8:30:44 PM

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This guide is helpful thanks. Most of the reason I've put off trying salvia is due to dosage confusion. I'm bad at these sort of things so what is a breakthrough dose on 10x?
My name is love, for I am without fear
 
gibran2
#8 Posted : 11/30/2010 8:47:56 PM

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Morbiddoctor wrote:
This guide is helpful thanks. Most of the reason I've put off trying salvia is due to dosage confusion. I'm bad at these sort of things so what is a breakthrough dose on 10x?

Breakthrough dose is approximately 400 / “x-factor”, so for 10X a dose would be about 400/10= 40mg.
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neverwas
#9 Posted : 11/30/2010 8:54:02 PM

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OK. Guess I didn't catch the formula. Thanks a lot. I'll definitely recommend this to others.

On a related note, is there a formula for quid of extract and plain leaf? They always say X grams but I've seen a lot of different numbers. I know some of that has to do with the fact potency varies plant to plant.
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PureMan
#10 Posted : 12/1/2010 6:34:49 AM

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I have had a horrifying experience before with Salvia that I will never forget. True mind rape. It left me with a mild form of PTSD.. I guess I wasn't careful enough with dosage.

A good breakthrough dose of salvia doesn't have this terrifying quality?
 
jamie
#11 Posted : 12/1/2010 6:37:39 AM

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Cloud wrote:
I have had a horrifying experience before with Salvia that I will never forget. True mind rape. It left me with a mild form of PTSD.. I guess I wasn't careful enough with dosage.

A good breakthrough dose of salvia doesn't have this terrifying quality?


Also depends on the context you experienced it in. Salvia is not like other entheogens and requires more specific set and setting, for me at least. Ive had those experiences also where I was literally unsure of my reality for a few days after and would get flashes of memory from the trip back piece by piece and then the feeling would return and Id get all edgy.
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gibran2
#12 Posted : 12/1/2010 3:11:04 PM

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Cloud wrote:
I have had a horrifying experience before with Salvia that I will never forget. True mind rape. It left me with a mild form of PTSD.. I guess I wasn't careful enough with dosage.

A good breakthrough dose of salvia doesn't have this terrifying quality?


The effects of salvia are very dose-dependent and therefore very predictable (unlike DMT!). Starting low and working your way up (taking into account the possibility of some reverse tolerance) is a really good way to become familiar with the effects.

Horrific experiences are not the norm at normal doses.

(My most difficult experiences with salvia – and they weren’t really that difficult – involved me being given the option to stay in “salvia world”. Not forced to stay – just given the option.)
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PsilocybeChild
#13 Posted : 12/1/2010 11:49:14 PM

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Great information. It's sad that we had a powerful and totally legal entheogen for awhile and so few were treating it with any respect at all. Salvia could have had true potential for mass change like lsd had. But people are akin to monkeys.
so many shitty salvia extracts that were not what was advertised as, people recording their friends freaking out on 60x, ect.

I think that the first post should be stickied in this salvia section.
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reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment.
Remember; we are eternal,
all this pain is an illusion.

 
Metanoia
#14 Posted : 12/2/2010 3:39:24 PM

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PsilocybeChild wrote:
I think that the first post should be stickied in this salvia section.

I second that. People should do their research before taking any mind altering substance, particularly in regards to dosage.

PsilocybeChild wrote:
Salvia could have had true potential for mass change like lsd had.

burningmouth and I feel the same way. Salvia had (or still has) true potential for mass change. I think it's the lack of respect and the lack of knowledge that led to it being made illegal in so many states/countries. There is much less of a chance of someone freaking out if they start off with plain leaf or small, small doses of extract. And yes, those youtube videos are nothing but harmful for Salvia.
gibran2 wrote:
Homecoming, family, impish children singing, a circus, physical transformation, physical blossoming, loss of self, 1950’s suburbia, green grass, blue skies, turning into a tent, all of reality becoming a 2-dimensional sheet, layers of reality, seeing neighboring realities that are just a millimeter away from ours, truths revealed and then quickly hidden, a carnival, paranoia – realizing everyone else “knows”, physically turning inside-out, a whole world made of tiles or blocks, emotional flatness, feeling you could stay “there” if you made the choice, true home, disappointment with this “plain” reality on return, multi-dimensional…
 
Lavos
#15 Posted : 12/3/2010 10:08:52 PM

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I completely agree with a sticky.

And yes, most of the youtube videos are very bad. The K2 ban was going around a couple months ago, and they knocked salvia off the shelves with it. I asked why and the girl told me she wasn't sure. I mentioned how completely different they were and how idiotic it was to just start mass banning herbs. She said something afterward about youtube videos probably contributing to 'their' view on salvia's legality.
My ego is insane, but I'm alright

The path of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. -William Blake

Lavos is a fictional character, a dream inside a dream. Don't take what he says to be true or representational of reality in any known form. He is inspired by pure fantasy.
 
rOm
#16 Posted : 12/4/2010 8:59:07 AM

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Thanks a lot to stress that Gibran2. We can't stress enough the importance of dosing these powerful psychedelics.
After all, I think my former experience with salvia contribute a lot to some understandings about psychodynamic and "zen" arts and psylosophy.
-*-

 
Metanoia
#17 Posted : 3/4/2011 3:14:34 PM

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I thought this belonged here. A method of Salvia dosing I've used (as well as MySmelf) which he calls "snorkeling". I give him credit for the original term:

MySmelf wrote:
I've gone just as far with Salvia, past all the worlds, to a place of fluid eternal bliss. Its not easy with Salvia, you have to push it. I smoke several bowls increasing potency. I'll start off with a couple bowls of plain leaf or 5x and increase it to 10x, then 15x and 20x. I call this "snorkeling". I usually get to a point where I have to let go completely and separate from the "machine". I'll then fall or rise out of all space and time, out of all lives and worlds. Until as I move all existence moves.

It is an effective way to delve very deep into Salviaspace, while somewhat side-stepping amnesic effects. It can be difficult (nothing about Salvia is easy Smile ) to get the method down, but it is viable. I can personally attest to that in the few times I've employed it. This is how I went about it.

The Snorkeling Method

Smoke two large bowls of plain leaf (~400mg each), slowly, meditatively.

Put a dose of 5x (80mg) in the bowl, burn in one toke.

Wait for the effects to subside a little, enough so that you can pack your next dose.

Put a dose of 10x (40mg) on top of a small bed of plain leaf (~40mg), burn in one toke.

Wait for the effects to subside a little, enough so that you can pack your next dose.

Put half a dose of 15x (14mg) on top of a small bed of plain leaf (~40mg), burn in one toke.

Wait for the effects to subside a little, enough so that you can pack your next dose.

Put half a dose of 20x (10mg) on top of a small bed of plain leaf (~40mg), burn in one toke.

By then, even with the short duration of salvinorin A, it should have built up enough to propel you well into Salviaspace. It goes without saying that you should pre-weigh all your doses. It also helps to have two bowls, or even three, so that you don't have to wait as long between doses so that you can pack the next one. I use two bowls, and it works fine. The real point of this method is to dive and surface again and again, rather than blasting yourself out there with one large dose. While smoking a large dose of 20x will propel you out there, it will be much harder to retain much of the details of the experience. This snorkeling method is a process of acclimation, so to speak.
gibran2 wrote:
Homecoming, family, impish children singing, a circus, physical transformation, physical blossoming, loss of self, 1950’s suburbia, green grass, blue skies, turning into a tent, all of reality becoming a 2-dimensional sheet, layers of reality, seeing neighboring realities that are just a millimeter away from ours, truths revealed and then quickly hidden, a carnival, paranoia – realizing everyone else “knows”, physically turning inside-out, a whole world made of tiles or blocks, emotional flatness, feeling you could stay “there” if you made the choice, true home, disappointment with this “plain” reality on return, multi-dimensional…
 
gibran2
#18 Posted : 3/4/2011 5:14:29 PM

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I added the approximate amount of salvinorin A in each dose:

Dioxippus wrote:
Smoke two large bowls of plain leaf (~400mg each), slowly, meditatively. 2mg

Put a dose of 5x (80mg) in the bowl, burn in one toke. 1mg

Wait for the effects to subside a little, enough so that you can pack your next dose.

Put a dose of 10x (40mg) on top of a small bed of plain leaf (~40mg), burn in one toke. 1.1mg

Wait for the effects to subside a little, enough so that you can pack your next dose.

Put half a dose of 15x (14mg) on top of a small bed of plain leaf (~40mg), burn in one toke. 0.625mg

Wait for the effects to subside a little, enough so that you can pack your next dose.

Put half a dose of 20x (10mg) on top of a small bed of plain leaf (~40mg), burn in one toke. 0.600mg


Why all the different strengths of extract and plain leaf? Why not just use one strength instead? Such as 10X:

Instead of 2 bowls (400mg each) of plain leaf, use 2 bowls (40mg each) of 10X.
Instead of 80mg of 5X, use 40mg of 10X.
Instead of 40mg of 10X + 40mg plain leaf, use 44mg of 10X.
Instead of 14mg of 15X + 40mg plain leaf, use 25mg of 10X.
Instead of 10mg of 20X + 40mg plain leaf, use 24mg of 10X.

In each case, you’d be getting the same amount of salvinorin A, and dosing would be much less complicated. Remember, the “X” factor is really just telling you how much salvinorin A is in a given mass of extract: 100mg plain leaf = 10mg 10X = 6.7mg 15X = 5mg 20X. Getting a particular dose through combining multiple strengths of extracts can always be accomplished by an appropriate dose of a single extract.
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Metanoia
#19 Posted : 3/5/2011 2:48:02 AM

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Yes, I suppose you could just use one strength and increase as you went. It would be the same method. The main difference is I like to begin with the plain leaf as it seems to relax me more than extracts of any strength. Puts me in a more meditative state.

It's basically getting acclimated to Salviaspace that is the point of the method. Building to a lovely crescendo. I also think I enjoy the whole preparation as well. And the silly notion that I'm going deeper with the stronger extracts, even though the dosages are similar Very happy
gibran2 wrote:
Homecoming, family, impish children singing, a circus, physical transformation, physical blossoming, loss of self, 1950’s suburbia, green grass, blue skies, turning into a tent, all of reality becoming a 2-dimensional sheet, layers of reality, seeing neighboring realities that are just a millimeter away from ours, truths revealed and then quickly hidden, a carnival, paranoia – realizing everyone else “knows”, physically turning inside-out, a whole world made of tiles or blocks, emotional flatness, feeling you could stay “there” if you made the choice, true home, disappointment with this “plain” reality on return, multi-dimensional…
 
Mystic Cannibal
#20 Posted : 4/17/2011 9:11:42 AM
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While the X factor may determine the dose of salvinorin, i do think that being able to take in the salvinorin in faster is key to getting high from salvia, in my experience how long you hold in the toke, how full your lungs are make a big difference in the level of highness that you get, one good toke on salvia is better then three medium tokes, even if its the same mg of salvinorin, and this is easier to pull off with higher extracts, though like you said 20x is plenty strong.
you hear of people getting like 250X or something ridiculous like that, and if it really is that strong its waaay more then neccesary, but every kid has got to be the badass and they end up getting spanked by the salvia goddess..

But that snorkling idea is interesting, maybe having a friend help you pack bowls and stuff?

I generally prefer to trip alone, but whenever salvia is involved higher then 6x i definitely think its a good idea for everyone to have a sitter, its so easy to forget your name, who you are, what you are doing, where you are, and be confused about which dimension you are in. All the while your body is still active, whether you think you are somewhere else or not, at least thats my experience.
 
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