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There is no Kokusaginine or red spice or yuremamine. Its just DMT. Options
 
organickitchen
#1 Posted : 10/30/2010 1:04:01 PM
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Hello all, This maybe a bit of a hard to accept first post. But why not go big. As the title says, We have confirmed that there is no other alkaloid that is causing the psychoactive experiance other than DMT. We have had tests run on N,N-DMT/Kokusaginine aswell as "red spice" You may take our word or not for this.

They have all been done at a very professional lab & thease items are nothing more than differant concentrations of DMT. I do not know if this forum has come to that conclusion yet as your jungle spice thread, I cannot post in it.

I hope this is not saddening news to you all, & i hope i do not get flamed for this as my first post. It seems the white N,N-DMT is the only truely "launch" like experiance, Like that of those reported by strassmann & most true DMT experiances. ( He likely used synth )

I have been extracting for 7 years. Only reciantly have i felt comfortable enough to evaporate solvents. I have always had a fear of that. once we got good enough at re crystalizations, seperations, all that type of thing thease tasks where preformed we seperated the material Our puritys are non-issue, We sent in samples of red jungle spice wax, green/grey kokusaginine wax and ofcoarse, The first to be yieled just some nice white N,N-DMT. All of witch when re-crystalized disolved at differant tempratures & some formed back in crystal, Others in a VERY sticky / turn to wax real fast clear grey base that turns almost green once enough is added to your rock.

Highest concentration = kokusaginine
Second highest concentration = N,N-DMT
least concentrated = Yuremamine (red spice)

I would assume that there is some unknonwn factor that plays into the launch experiance given by the N,N-DMT. Perhaps it is spiritual perhaps not, All i know is we have proven that beyond a doubt the only alkaloid active in this bark is DMT. Now why does kokusaginine witch has nearly double the concentration not launch you like white spice ?

Do you guys really think the university of new mexico would let strassmann obtain mimosa/make DMT & Then inject volenteers ? No, I doubt it. So he likely used synth DMT, Witch would mean it was likely only N,N-DMT. Again, Why the one with the 2nd highest concentration ? Could this truely be the spirit molecule ?

Theres the new mystery, Flame away or try & figure out whats really going on with this mysterious molecule.
Dont say its mixing with the yuramine to produce the full effect, there is no yuremanine, Remember that there all just forms of DMT ( Differant concentrations )
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
The Traveler
#2 Posted : 10/30/2010 1:46:35 PM

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Thank you for your post.

I guess we are not too disappointed about this since we already had research done:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=10553

Strassman used DMT-fumarate since thats the only FDA approved form of DMT for clinical testing so I don't really see your point here about Strassman and no extracted but synthed DMT.

Furthermore I like to know how your analysis was done, methodology, etc. This is very important for us to get an idea of the authenticity of your claims.

I also like to know why you think that with your test you can make a conclusion like "All i know is we have proven that beyond a doubt the only alkaloid active in this bark is DMT".


And the last thing I would like to point out is that you take an overly defensive position. I'm not sure why you do that but on the DMT-Nexus we like science and if tests give conclusive results then there is no need to feel defensive about it, just the complete test paper would be nice to read though...


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 
actualfactual
#3 Posted : 10/30/2010 4:05:26 PM

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Quote:
We have confirmed that there is no other alkaloid that is causing the psychoactive experiance other than DMT. We have had tests run on N,N-DMT/Kokusaginine aswell as "red spice" You may take our word or not for this.


I'd love for you to post your test results..

What is making the spice red (active or not?)

Thank you sir!
 
endlessness
#4 Posted : 10/30/2010 4:56:58 PM

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maybe its just me or you're not making much sense.. First you say there is no kokusaginine, then you say that its the highest in concentration? What do you mean?

AFAIK kokusaginine was never found in mimosa and whoever mentioned kokusaginine seems to have been skim-reading jonathan ott's article. Check my answers in this thread.

So I wonder what are you talking about when you're analyzing green/grey kokusaginine, what do you mean by that, arent you just contradicting yourself? (and how can your product be green? seems some bad chemicals being used there, mimosa extractions should never be green)

Then, I find it weird how you talk about yuremamine. We already know, by the original publication from J Callaway (uploaded in the Scientific Articles thread) that yuremamine is an unstable substance specially in basic solutions, so people didnt think it was responsible for differences in effects because yuremamine simply could not be present as a result of normal extractions.

Then you talk about strassman which also seems pretty peculiar to me.. Yes he used pure synthetic DMT (fumarate), he describes this in his book. If he was testing some other substance, it wouldnt be a DMT research, would it?

Now if you read the chemical analysis done by our own members, here, you would see there is something else (2-MTHBC) appart from DMT, though in very small quantities. But how can you prove beyond a shadow of doubt that 2-MTHBC is not active or that it doesnt have synergistic effects with DMT?

So if you want to make this discussion a bit more than just claims, would be interesting if you would explain yourself on the issues I mentioned above, as well as describing the methods used for analysis (and the type of extraction used for the analyzed products)

Lastly, as trav said, no need to be defensive, in these issues, truth is truth and it will show itself. We're seriously for rigorous science in this forum, so a scientific truth cannot 'sadden' us.. But lets first hear more from you to see if this discussion can go forward
 
jamie
#5 Posted : 10/30/2010 5:06:55 PM

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mimosa is orally active....
 
Apoc
#6 Posted : 10/31/2010 5:39:05 AM

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Interesting. More explanation required, though, as Endlessness asked.
 
BananaForeskin
#7 Posted : 10/31/2010 8:09:41 AM

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I too am a bit confused about your statements. At times you seem to be under the impression that we Nexians doubt the power of DMT, and are perhaps confused. Your question "could this truly be the spirit molecule?" and preceding argument regarding the synthetic DMT make it sound like the psychedelic nature of DMT has been doubted. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding your point, but what did you think we thought we were smoking? Yes, there's definitely a crowd of jungle spice fans, but no-one here misunderstands that pure white NN-DMT is the driving force behind all of this.

Also your question: "why does kokusaginine witch has nearly double the concentration not launch you like white spice?" is confusing. Even assuming kokusaginine WAS found in significantly higher quantities than DMT in mimosa, what would lead you to question that it could "launch" you in the same way? It's not a tryptamine. It may be an MAOI, but I still don't see why you'd jump to the conclusion that simply because there's the same amount or more that it'd produce the same effect.

This all seems rather fishy to me.
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Shamantube
#8 Posted : 10/31/2010 9:18:17 AM
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I was only awaiting permissions to post thease charts.


Here you go, All three of thease are your suposed differant compounds.

http://img827.imageshack.us/i/dmt3.jpg/

http://img838.imageshack.us/i/dmt1kuku.jpg/

http://img258.imageshack.us/i/dmt2.jpg/

Witchever one has the lowest concentration thats the yurm, the N,N-DMT is somewhat in the middle, kuku having the highest aparently.

( did not embed the charts as they are very big, if somebody wants to re-size & post them in here, go ahead.
 
Shamantube
#9 Posted : 10/31/2010 9:19:32 AM
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BananaForeskin wrote:
I too am a bit confused about your statements. At times you seem to be under the impression that we Nexians doubt the power of DMT, and are perhaps confused. Your question "could this truly be the spirit molecule?" and preceding argument regarding the synthetic DMT make it sound like the psychedelic nature of DMT has been doubted. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding your point, but what did you think we thought we were smoking? Yes, there's definitely a crowd of jungle spice fans, but no-one here misunderstands that pure white NN-DMT is the driving force behind all of this.

Also your question: "why does kokusaginine witch has nearly double the concentration not launch you like white spice?" is confusing. Even assuming kokusaginine WAS found in significantly higher quantities than DMT in mimosa, what would lead you to question that it could "launch" you in the same way? It's not a tryptamine. It may be an MAOI, but I still don't see why you'd jump to the conclusion that simply because there's the same amount or more that it'd produce the same effect.

This all seems rather fishy to me.


I apolojize, I was up last night running a massive extraction & did that post at 6am. I actually fell asleep with it open & posted, lol.

The kokusaginine DID NOT COME BACK WITH high concentratios of MAOI as far as i know. And as far as thease charts show, It has the highest concentration of DMT, NO MAOI.

I do not doubt you guys have no idea what your smoking, I know when we all do our extractions & get the white stuff, It launches the hardest and is where its at.

All i am trying to say is that, The N,N-DMT concentrations in just DMT are lesser than that of kuku. and jungle spice being the very lowest.

I hope this helps clear it up, I have been given permission to post the graphs & i have done so. When i first read about kuku i was like awsome, Somthing that MIGHT have a molecular structure similar to mescaline & morphine, I tryed it and immediately noticed the differant effects. But could thease simply be POS ? We all have to remember we are all suseptable to power of sugestion. Could we really just be smoking the kuku getting a mild DMT head buzz so the more pronounced body high makes us belive that it is a differant compound all together ? I dont know. We are only trying to help unwravel this great mystery & i think it should start with this thread. The other one got going then stopped. Lets put this to rest with science & figure out exactly why somthing with half the concentration is "launching" people into the spirit relm of DMT yet somthing with a higher concentration does not. I would contribute this to somthing that the equipment at this time cant identify yet, Or it is a unknown veriable like n,n-dmt has somthing in it that isnt a alkaloid that envokes the more "DMT" experiance, some type of intelligence, Who knows. This bark is deep, We have to get to the bottom of it.

I really dont understand with this forum why this hasnt already been solved yet. I know people who run 4 kilos a week & have massive supplys of this / mastered the technique but because nothing can be recorded or video taped the process's could slightly varry.

I am pretty sure there are people on thease boards doing more than 4 kilos a week, We cant be the biggest producer so how come this mystery is still a mystery ? Lets solve it ! Everytime i do a extraction i use solvent grade naptha, from chem supply house.

(petrol ether varries so i always use the same)
A.C.S Sodium hydroxide
Everything is lab grade, Measured out with extreme accuracy & not preformed slopppy.
So we can remove all those discussions from posts to follow this.

could there be a differance in reacting the sodium hydroxide FULLY outside the jar before dump-in, Or is it best to give it a few stirs and pour the sodium hydroxide solution into the jar & let it react in there ?

What differances could thease cause ? I will do a kilo tomarow & find out, So stay tunned. From here on out, I log everything i do in terms of differant percip methods / solvents / use of measurements / possible differance between reacted sodium hydroxide solution being poured in or only partially reacted solution being poured in.

This batch i finished today we followed to the tea more than ever, Our yield had the most pungent strongest DMT smell i have ever smelt. But you could tell it was fucking damn strong.

After the third pulls from the jugs, The DMT began to take on a slight color that it would then loose in the drying phase but the puritys between the 2 whites is still quite obvious.

Whenever i start a new tek, It will be logged charted & i gurentee each time we will only pull out DMT. I think that :

A. We dont have the technoladgy to tell us what it is that is causing this effect
B. Power of sugestion spread / spead up by a forum post such as this & quotes from ott.


-4lyfe
 
burnt
#10 Posted : 10/31/2010 10:09:31 AM

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Um all those compounds you posted in those 3 pictures are the same. The mass spectra are all DMT and the retention time is the same.
 
The Traveler
#11 Posted : 10/31/2010 12:17:23 PM

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Shamantube,

I'm sorry to say but your posts sounds more and more like some blabber instead of real science.

"Or it is a unknown veriable like n,n-dmt has somthing in it that isnt a alkaloid that envokes the more "DMT" experiance, some type of intelligence, Who knows. This bark is deep, We have to get to the bottom of it."

Things like that are not helping either. Maybe you could just answer the questions endlessness stated instead of writing down more fodder? You seem to avoid the real questions and you just post more contradicting 'evidence'. I get the idea you are a troll.Rolling eyes


The Traveler
 
endlessness
#12 Posted : 10/31/2010 12:24:42 PM

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Shamantube wrote:

All i am trying to say is that, The N,N-DMT concentrations in just DMT are lesser than that of kuku. and jungle spice being the very lowest.


Again, you are not explaining yourself. When you said that the "kuku more dmt than dmt, this doesnt make much sense if you think about it. I decipher you mean that the product resulting from a certain extraction that you thought (or been told) is kokusaginine, is dmt but in higher concentrations than a product you thought was pure dmt, yes? Ok first of all you have to answer why you called a product kokusaginine in the first place? It has never been demonstrated that kokusaginine is in mimosa (as in the discussion I linked in my other post). So how exactly was this product extracted that you called kokusaginine?

And what about the jungle spice, how exactly was it extracted?

Did you even read the post I made? I linked to an analysis of mimosa done by burnt, so we already knew there was no kokusaginine, why do you keep asking why the mistery wasnt solved yet?

We've been arguing that jungle spice difference in effects might just be placebo, for a long time already. Its even in the FAQ




But what troubles me the most is your talk about massive extractions. Did you read our attitude page?

We are VERY strongly against selling of dmt, and when you are talking about that much dmt, it doesnt come out right. You couldnt possibly be using that much dmt yourself, and even if you are not selling, you also cannot be possibly supervising every or most of those launches, initiating people carefully, making sure its being properly used.

If psychedelics have a very strong message for me, it is that I should be as aware as possible of the consequence of my actions in broad terms. Extracting large amounts of dmt and spreading it around without due care can have very strong negative consequences for people using it, for those around them and for the whole community. Please reconsider what you are doing
 
BananaForeskin
#13 Posted : 10/31/2010 7:34:10 PM

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I agree with Trav and endlessness...
The "we" you refer to is obviously some syndicate producing gross quantities of DMT. I think if you had purely scientific research in mind, you'd be doing small extractions.

Some of your post is borderline incomprehensible, like questioning the possibility of DMT having other alkaloids "inside of it" which are responsible for its psychedelic effect.

Even with those two items aside, you still haven't explained why you think that the other alkaloids in mimosa should have similar effects to DMT.
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Shamantube
#14 Posted : 11/2/2010 11:46:46 AM
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1. The N,N-DMT (white) was obtained through a standard marsfold tek.
2. the " Red spice " was obtained with xylene evap just as described in the post by necromancer
3. after all "red spice" was collected & xylene evap left nothing behind toluene was added at 250ml sat for 2 days & came out, Evapped into hard green wax ( like "red spice"Pleased
 
Those charts are for each of the individual compounds sent in for testing, Not just DMT. They look identical because those where the results from all the tests on thease compounds.
I dont know how to make it more clear. Perhaps you may field questions my way that i can then answer to clarify further. I had no intentions of angering anybody or being a troll, I am mearly trying to share information i have obtained with the largest forum group with likely the most experts with this compound.
 
Methtical
#15 Posted : 11/2/2010 12:24:30 PM

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Shamantube wrote:
Perhaps you may field questions my way that i can then answer to clarify further.


I think if you read over Endlessness' response, there's a dozen or so for you to respond to......the most important one would be explaining why you are extracting multiple kilos of Mimosa? What could you possibly want with that much spice?

Methtical
 
burnt
#16 Posted : 11/2/2010 5:31:46 PM

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Quote:
Those charts are for each of the individual compounds sent in for testing, Not just DMT. They look identical because those where the results from all the tests on thease compounds.


Those are mass spectra not charts. They are the exact same. Therefore they are all the same compound.
 
olympus mon
#17 Posted : 11/2/2010 5:55:46 PM

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Shamantube wrote:

I really dont understand with this forum why this hasnt already been solved yet. I know people who run 4 kilos a week & have massive supplys of this / mastered the technique but because nothing can be recorded or video taped the process's could slightly varry.

I am pretty sure there are people on these boards doing more than 4 kilos a week, We cant be the biggest producer so
-4lyfe

i really think you are confused as to what the nexus is all about and its attitude twords mass extracting for what could only be assumed profit. no, i highly doubt anyone is doing kilo's and kilo's of extractions here. if they are they sure as hell aren't talking about it. `

im just gonna call this one the way i see it,

youve seemed to have come here thinking you and your associates have everything all figured out with some mass spectra analysis and you are surprised that people are questioning your accuracy, knowledge and science. making statements like "how have you guys not figured this out yet" is quite bold in this company imo.

if you spent some time here reading other peoples research and experiments you might be surprised.

youve brought this up to men and women of science and they are certainly going to go through it with a flea comb because extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

im sorry to have a dickish tone, its not a good representation of the nexus but im personally turned off by someone boastfull about their mass extractions, and claiming absolute proof with pretty flimsy evidence so far. like i said you would be surprised how much some of these members know. stick around and maybe you will see for yourself what others are seeing.
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Shamantube
#18 Posted : 11/2/2010 8:29:49 PM
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GC-MS analysis was performed in an Agilent 5890 series II gas chromatograph coupled to an 5971A quadrupole mass spectrometer detector (Agilent). The gas chromatograph was fitted with an 6890 auto sampler injector. Samples were injected in slit mode into a 12m × 0.2mm i.d., 0.33 µm film thickness 5% phenylmethylsilicone column (ULTRA-2, Agilent Technologies). The oven temperature was programmed at 90ºC during 2min and increased 20ºC/min to 300ºC. Finally was maintained at 300ºC over 4min with a total run time of 14.50min. Insert liners packed with silanized glasswool were used. The injector and the interface were operated at 280 ◦C. Helium was used as carrier gas at a flow rate of 0.48ml/min. The mass spectrometer was operated in electron impact ionization mode at 70 eV.
 
pau
#19 Posted : 11/2/2010 8:40:00 PM

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Synchronicity? Just last week some dormitory guy also came to this site looking for advice on doing something contrary to its principles. As I recall, he had a bit of bad luck.
WHOA!
 
BananaForeskin
#20 Posted : 11/3/2010 3:30:55 AM

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Shamantube wrote:
GC-MS analysis was performed in an Agilent 5890 series II gas chromatograph coupled to an 5971A quadrupole mass spectrometer detector (Agilent). The gas chromatograph was fitted with an 6890 auto sampler injector. Samples were injected in slit mode into a 12m × 0.2mm i.d., 0.33 µm film thickness 5% phenylmethylsilicone column (ULTRA-2, Agilent Technologies). The oven temperature was programmed at 90ºC during 2min and increased 20ºC/min to 300ºC. Finally was maintained at 300ºC over 4min with a total run time of 14.50min. Insert liners packed with silanized glasswool were used. The injector and the interface were operated at 280 ◦C. Helium was used as carrier gas at a flow rate of 0.48ml/min. The mass spectrometer was operated in electron impact ionization mode at 70 eV.


That's a good start, but back up a minute and please explain some of your earlier statements. What technology you used to make an analysis is irrelevant if some of your conclusions and following questions are hard to understand.
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