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official extraction help thread Options
 
downwardsfromzero
#3221 Posted : 9/21/2020 8:41:26 AM

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bfp wrote:
Dear Nexians,

I need some advice with the eco-friendly tek posted by Endlessness.

I used about 96g of very finely ground ACRB (used a coffee mill) and did an acid cook with citric acid before basing and then pulling with acetone. I was left with a plate that was covered in this dried flaky black reddish resin, that I am now trying to redissolve in citric acid.

Redissolution appears to be very slow though. The solution I use is about 10 % citric acid. The ph is lower than 4.5. Unfortunately the acid strips I use don't go lower than that, so I can't tell exactly.

Do I need to use a stronger acid here? Or should I just wait/use more of it?

all the best,
bfp

Have you tried grinding the resin? The increased surface area of the powder hastens dissolution. Probably there's a load of lipophilic stuff in the resin that's making it somewhat water resistant.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
downwardsfromzero
#3222 Posted : 9/21/2020 8:48:30 AM

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monomind wrote:
Hello Nexians,

I am in need of some advice please.
A full spectrum mimosa extract ( BLAB with limonene and vinegar ) yielded an amount of red acetate goo which does not make any theoretical sense ( 6% yield Crying or very sad ?? ). My friend suspects that the reason for that is the vinegar actually pulled also plant fats and whatnot from the limonene.

Is it possible to defat the goo with naphtha ? The procedure my friend had in mind is dissolving the goo in some water till liquid, and then do few naphtha pulls to remove excess plant oils.

Is the theory suggested sound ?

ThanksThumbs up

You could base the solution and pull into naphtha (seeing as you plan to use it anyhow). A freeze precip should then leave you with a very clean product - but, alas, no longer would it be full spectrum.

I would wager that your goo smells strongly of limonene. Probably your fantasy yield is due to large amounts of limonene contamination. This can be removed by simply dissolving the goo in distilled water and simmering it until the lemon smell has gone. Evaporate to recover goo and check yield again.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
monomind
#3223 Posted : 9/21/2020 9:22:03 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:

I would wager that your goo smells strongly of limonene. Probably your fantasy yield is due to large amounts of limonene contamination. This can be removed by simply dissolving the goo in distilled water and simmering it until the lemon smell has gone. Evaporate to recover goo and check yield again.


Hi downwardsfromzero,

Thanks for the advice!

It does not smell anything like limonene ( how a limonene contamination may happen is beyond me... no limonene was sucked out with the vinegar pulls that can account for the massive yield).
However mixing with h2o and evaporating is a no brainer to try...
As full alks profile is desired, basifying will be sort of last resort Smile

Do you think a de-fating step with naphtha on the acetate will be Ok as well ( i.e. no desired alks will travel to the naphtha layer ) ?

Thanks again buddy Thumbs up

p.s.
Is it possible at all that mimosa tannins traveled through the phases to the vinegar ?
 
downwardsfromzero
#3224 Posted : 9/21/2020 10:26:22 AM

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Oh, ok. IME limonene really sticks to the acid pulls no matter what but YMMV I guess.

There's also probably an appreciable amount of the other main solvent in the goo - water. Mashing it around on a warm plate would speed up drying, before sealing in a box with some desiccant for a while prior to weighing for a better estimate of yield. MHRB contains the utmost minimal amount of fats so I'd try a few other things before resorting to a naphtha 'defat' - especially if the intention was to be using food grade materials.

Ensuring the material you have is acidic will effectively prevent desired compounds from dissolving in the naphtha should you decide to proceed with using that solvent.

Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
q21q21
#3225 Posted : 9/21/2020 12:26:01 PM

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Hey monomind.
I have some suggestions that might illuminate how a 6% yield is possible.

I've evaporated vinegar-containing DMT over 100 times and I could easily see some possibilities of extra mass.

Calling it a "goo" suggests it is goo-like but when acetate is completely evaporated it is like tree sap or thick paint.
The color is hugely different based on concentration and if heated:
full specture (jimjam) DMT-acetate with some water = orange
jimjam DMT-acetate with no water = deep red
jimjam DMT freebase with no water = dark red

I highly recommend taking a measured quantity of goo and heating it until it looks nearly dry and re-measuring it. Having 1/6th the weight from a goo-like state to sappy freebase is totally within what I've seen in my experiments.

Also full-specture (jimjam) DMT freebase is SUPER hygroscopic. If I scrape up a sap-like quantity on a razor and wait a couple hours it is like honey and 2-3 times the volume or more.

I have used 3 different brands of limonene (and 2 of xylene) and 4 different brands of vinegar and never had a contamination salting with vinegar. I would definitely assume your measurement is incorrect before assuming contamination. You can even test without risking your health by vaporizing some of the goo off of some metal mesh and just watching and sniffing for DMT-like behavior.

Of course caution with any actually human smoking tests, that's your decision for sure. I can only share my views and opinions.
Q21Q21's Tek: A comprehensive guide to extracting DMT
The 2 teks use non-toxic lime and vinegar and Tek 1: d-Limonene or Xylene or Tek 2: Naptha to produce very quick high yields with the greatest of ease.

I am almost never on this site anymore so I will likely not answer PMs

 
monomind
#3226 Posted : 9/21/2020 7:24:33 PM

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Thank you guys for the help!

q21q21, i just call it goo but actually it falls under your "deep to dark red" category and it's sap-like even after spending a week in the freezer.
Mixing it with distilled water seem to have dissolved it easily but on closer inspection there were lots of 'dots' suspended in the liquid and it also left residue on the pyrex dish walls when heated.

To be on the safe side, vinegar was added and then most of the residues disappeared ( possibly some of it was already fb ? ).

It was then poured through a coffee filter just to get rid of any remaining solids, whatever they were. Now I have a clear acidic liquid which I am going to evaporate till there is something that will not dissolve in h20 anymore... and take it from there.

TBH, i wouldn't be so worried about it but i did try to smoke some by by dissolving a bit of goo in ethanol and evaporating onto leaf material.
It had dmt effects but it tasted like hell's sewage Shocked ...really really foul ( I get a chill in my spine just remembering it now) which also effected the overall impression ( It might be that I inhaled some acetic acid... don't know... but hence my urge to clean it further)
monomind attached the following image(s):
mimosa - Copy.jpg (292kb) downloaded 157 time(s).
 
bfp
#3227 Posted : 9/22/2020 9:18:50 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
bfp wrote:
Dear Nexians,

I need some advice with the eco-friendly tek posted by Endlessness.

I used about 96g of very finely ground ACRB (used a coffee mill) and did an acid cook with citric acid before basing and then pulling with acetone. I was left with a plate that was covered in this dried flaky black reddish resin, that I am now trying to redissolve in citric acid.

Redissolution appears to be very slow though. The solution I use is about 10 % citric acid. The ph is lower than 4.5. Unfortunately the acid strips I use don't go lower than that, so I can't tell exactly.

Do I need to use a stronger acid here? Or should I just wait/use more of it?

all the best,
bfp

Have you tried grinding the resin? The increased surface area of the powder hastens dissolution. Probably there's a load of lipophilic stuff in the resin that's making it somewhat water resistant.


Thank you, I'll try that Smile
 
q21q21
#3228 Posted : 9/22/2020 12:20:44 PM

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monomind wrote:
Thank you guys for the help!
It had dmt effects but it tasted like hell's sewage Shocked ...really really foul ( I get a chill in my spine just remembering it now) which also effected the overall impression ( It might be that I inhaled some acetic acid... don't know... but hence my urge to clean it further)


The picture looks like acetates with some mixed with some atmospheric H20, much thicker than I expected with a ~6% yield. The real test would be the measure-heat-remeasure though. I'm just guessing.

As for the taste, I feel like as an acetate smoker I am like the guy who always drink the same nasty booze and when someone else tries it they are like "WTF, you don't mind the taste??" I feel exactly the same way when smoking any herb actually, I tried DMT on mint and I was like "oh god, not doing that again, gross!"

That being said "hell sewage" is something I have never heard the 20+ people that have tried my acetates say. The worst I've heard is "ugh, that tastes bad, I need some gum or mints or something" but the average person describes it as weird or kind of unpleasant, but never anything close to "really really foul" that dissuades them from a second experience.

I hope you can find a solution, you're in uncharted territory as far as I can see.
Q21Q21's Tek: A comprehensive guide to extracting DMT
The 2 teks use non-toxic lime and vinegar and Tek 1: d-Limonene or Xylene or Tek 2: Naptha to produce very quick high yields with the greatest of ease.

I am almost never on this site anymore so I will likely not answer PMs

 
downwardsfromzero
#3229 Posted : 9/22/2020 2:56:39 PM

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q21q21 wrote:
I have used 3 different brands of limonene (and 2 of xylene) and 4 different brands of vinegar and never had a contamination salting with vinegar.

Come to think of it, my times of limonene contamination were with mimosa citrates or fumarates although a crude cactus extract had a distinct orangey aroma to the acetate pulls from limonene. The more highly oxygenated cactus alkaloids may have more of a surfactant effect, perhaps.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
bfp
#3230 Posted : 9/23/2020 1:15:40 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
bfp wrote:
Dear Nexians,

I need some advice with the eco-friendly tek posted by Endlessness.

I used about 96g of very finely ground ACRB (used a coffee mill) and did an acid cook with citric acid before basing and then pulling with acetone. I was left with a plate that was covered in this dried flaky black reddish resin, that I am now trying to redissolve in citric acid.

Redissolution appears to be very slow though. The solution I use is about 10 % citric acid. The ph is lower than 4.5. Unfortunately the acid strips I use don't go lower than that, so I can't tell exactly.

Do I need to use a stronger acid here? Or should I just wait/use more of it?

all the best,
bfp

Have you tried grinding the resin? The increased surface area of the powder hastens dissolution. Probably there's a load of lipophilic stuff in the resin that's making it somewhat water resistant.


I have tried grinding it and leaving it overnight. Exposure of surface area doesn't seem to be the limiting factor.

I tried removing a small amount of ground up resin and submerge it in fresh 10 % citric acid solution, but no visible reaction is taking place. Should I just try with a stronger acid?
 
Tomtegubbe
#3231 Posted : 9/23/2020 9:14:18 AM
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The teks for harmala extraction here are designed for the purification of the product. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read it's not clear that the rue contains any real toxics if you're not pregnant.

So, I was thinking: is it possible to do a dirty harmala freebase extraction using a stb tek (like lazymans Tek) to just dissolve the rue in lye, collect with naphta and freeze precipitate? The reason for doing this would be to easily inhale the vaporized freebase harmalas which I believe is more efficient than smoking and less nauseating than eating.
 
Hank Scorpio
#3232 Posted : 9/23/2020 7:14:10 PM

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Tomtegubbe wrote:

So, I was thinking: is it possible to do a dirty harmala freebase extraction using a stb tek (like lazymans Tek) to just dissolve the rue in lye, collect with naphta and freeze precipitate? The reason for doing this would be to easily inhale the vaporized freebase harmalas which I believe is more efficient than smoking and less nauseating than eating.


I may be wrong here, but I think harmine/harmaline are significantly more polar than DMT due to the oxygen molecule stuck to one end of them. And so they are going to have a much weaker preference for non polar solvents like naptha. I'd say that's the reason why the extraction teks for harmalas have to do all of the repeated filtering steps instead of pulling with naptha.

@Nexians
I also have a question of my own. I'm struggling with a harmala extraction. I've been following this tek for harmala extraction. I've followed it to the letter and I am up to step 13. I'm trying to crystallize out my harmalas, but after salting, boiling and leaving in the fridge for 24 hours, I have almost no crystals. I've got like one tiny flake. I even tried reboiling and letting it cool more slowly, with no success.

The colour of the solution looks correct, in that it's fairly red. What should I do? Should I try adding more salt, or more vinegar? Or do I just have dud seeds.

Thanks in advance
Hank Scorpio attached the following image(s):
manske.jpg (2,861kb) downloaded 103 time(s).
 
Tomtegubbe
#3233 Posted : 9/23/2020 10:28:55 PM
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Tomtegubbe wrote:

So, I was thinking: is it possible to do a dirty harmala freebase extraction using a stb tek (like lazymans Tek) to just dissolve the rue in lye, collect with naphta and freeze precipitate? The reason for doing this would be to easily inhale the vaporized freebase harmalas which I believe is more efficient than smoking and less nauseating than eating.


I may be wrong here, but I think harmine/harmaline are significantly more polar than DMT due to the oxygen molecule stuck to one end of them. And so they are going to have a much weaker preference for non polar solvents like naptha. I'd say that's the reason why the extraction teks for harmalas have to do all of the repeated filtering steps instead of pulling with naptha.

Thank you! That explains a lot! It's been quite a while since high school chemistry. Never thought it could be useful 😄
 
monomind
#3234 Posted : 9/24/2020 10:45:43 AM

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q21q21 wrote:


The picture looks like acetates with some mixed with some atmospheric H20, much thicker than I expected with a ~6% yield. The real test would be the measure-heat-remeasure though. I'm just guessing.

As for the taste, I feel like as an acetate smoker I am like the guy who always drink the same nasty booze and when someone else tries it they are like "WTF, you don't mind the taste??" I feel exactly the same way when smoking any herb actually, I tried DMT on mint and I was like "oh god, not doing that again, gross!"

That being said "hell sewage" is something I have never heard the 20+ people that have tried my acetates say. The worst I've heard is "ugh, that tastes bad, I need some gum or mints or something" but the average person describes it as weird or kind of unpleasant, but never anything close to "really really foul" that dissuades them from a second experience.

I hope you can find a solution, you're in uncharted territory as far as I can see.


Hi q21q21,
I did not mean to discredit acetate smokers by any means Smile I am extremely sensitive to smells in general and vinegar is an old nemesis of mine... the 'hell sewage' metaphor was reflecting that more than anything else. Honestly, I could write poems on how foul the smoke tasted for me...

Anyways, I followed more of your footsteps and after some more evaporation in a hot water bath the yield now is around 1.6%. Still a bit high maybe but well within sensical range. I transferred the liquid goo to a small beaker and put it on a coffee warmer (a thermometer shows it holds it at 95 Celsius). At some point the color turned from red to black-ish and it does not dissolve in h20 anymore... so I assume it is at least partly freebase now.
It still smell of vinegar so I am going to leave it like this for a little while longer.

Will report how it goesThumbs up
 
Blazon
#3235 Posted : 9/24/2020 3:40:22 PM

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Blazon wrote:
hi,

I have a question regarding CYB's hybrid 'salt' tek

total amount of liquid is 700ml but hard to get those 700ml bottles like are in the picture-they all made of plastic ,only Calypso juice ones but they are 500ml.
(have some 700ml flasks but the Calypso bottles have metal lid not plastic or rubber there hence calypso)

is there a way to reduce from 700 to 500ml without loosing much yield or effect the extraction?






bumping this as at the official tek the Step 5 basifying
Weigh out 50g of Sodium Hydroxide (Lye/Caustic Soda).
Put 200ml of cold de-ionised water into the measuring jug.
Slowly add the 50g of lye to the water and stir using a metal spoon until it is all dissolved.(Add the lye crystals INTO the water (NOT water onto lye) to avoid strong reaction and splashing)
Carefully add the caustic solution to the bottle.
Top up with 140ml de-ionised water to the bottle; the overall volume should be around 700ml altogether now.

is the 140ml really nessesary? I want to go step by step but those bottles are 500ml and are perfect .....
 
doubledog
#3236 Posted : 9/24/2020 10:30:29 PM

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Exact amount of water is not that important and depends also on volume of your extraction bottle. You will be most likely fine with lower volume of water.
 
Blazon
#3237 Posted : 9/25/2020 12:55:57 PM

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doubledog wrote:
Exact amount of water is not that important and depends also on volume of your extraction bottle. You will be most likely fine with lower volume of water.



hi,thanks,I went without the additional 140ml and no problem
 
bfp
#3238 Posted : 9/26/2020 3:02:57 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
bfp wrote:
Dear Nexians,

I need some advice with the eco-friendly tek posted by Endlessness.

I used about 96g of very finely ground ACRB (used a coffee mill) and did an acid cook with citric acid before basing and then pulling with acetone. I was left with a plate that was covered in this dried flaky black reddish resin, that I am now trying to redissolve in citric acid.

Redissolution appears to be very slow though. The solution I use is about 10 % citric acid. The ph is lower than 4.5. Unfortunately the acid strips I use don't go lower than that, so I can't tell exactly.

Do I need to use a stronger acid here? Or should I just wait/use more of it?

all the best,
bfp

Have you tried grinding the resin? The increased surface area of the powder hastens dissolution. Probably there's a load of lipophilic stuff in the resin that's making it somewhat water resistant.


I've been carrying on with this tek. I couldn't get this resin to redissolve, but I ground it very finely, and perhaps we can assume that the DMT that was trapped inside it migrated into the acid over the course of the last few days (is this likely to be true?)

It would help me out a lot to have some feedback, or to know what this resin likely is and how to deal with it in case I'm doing this wrong Wink .
 
Violet Quark
#3239 Posted : 9/27/2020 9:20:57 AM

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Hi Guys.
Can somebody help with this Syrian Rue extraction that seems to have gone horribly wrong please?
I have been following this GordoTek.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVxQDkBARjY
I got to the part where I dissolved the raw extract in vinegar and then needed to add salt solution to the filtered vinegar solution. I added the correct amount of salt solution (according to the video) and let it cool overnight to let the crystals grow and this is where it went wrong.
In the morning there were no crystals at all.
I thought maybe I hadn't added enough salt so I added more. A lot more, I went crazy and still nothing happened. The pH was about 2.5 at this point and I read it needs to be around 5 so I added some Sodium Carbonate to raise it. It fizzed and went mad and rose to pH7. It also went cloudy and horrible (see in the picture)
I now have a cloudy jar with some precipitate at the bottom as shown.
Can anybody tell me if this precipitate is the Harmaline/Harmine, or is it salt or Sodium carbonate?
Can this be rescued at all if it has gone as bad as I think?
Thanks for looking.
Violet Quark attached the following image(s):
IMG-2605.JPG (182kb) downloaded 31 time(s).
VQ
 
Tomtegubbe
#3240 Posted : 9/27/2020 11:30:19 AM
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Another question on rue extraction.

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...rystals_from_Syrian_Rue

This Tek looks simple enough. However I don't have ready access to high grade ethyl or methyl alcohol so I'd like to ask: What is the chemistry behind the solubility of harmala alkaloids to these alcohols in nutshell and can you use some other chemical for the job?
 
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