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official extraction help thread Options
 
Woolmer
#3161 Posted : 1/19/2020 9:50:16 PM

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Whoever edited the wiki has presumably accidentally made all the font colour from the Alternative Next-Steps section down yellow
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
Woolmer
#3162 Posted : 1/20/2020 1:53:09 PM

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Can I turn DMT acetate into FB by using lime and then pulling with acetone? Is this going to give me DMT FB + calcium acetate? All of the posts I have read have recommended using sodium carbonate as a base but lime should work just as well, right?
 
sirtween
#3163 Posted : 1/23/2020 3:11:23 PM
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Hi,

i use the q21q21 tek since 2years now but instead of pulling with limonene i use naphta. i always have good result, 1.5 % average.
Usually it run well with the consistency 1, crumbly, dry but this time i take a try with the second consistency, the soupy one. So i did it in the same condition as the other time with the same mimosa batch.It use less naphta but nothing precipitate in the freeze, so i would like how i could rectify it. Adding more lime? in order to turn it crumbly as i do usually, or trying to evaporate some water, naphta remaining in the soup?

Thanks all, with all my compassion
 
Woolmer
#3164 Posted : 1/23/2020 3:41:15 PM

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sirtween wrote:
Hi,

i use the q21q21 tek since 2years now but instead of pulling with limonene i use naphta. i always have good result, 1.5 % average.
Usually it run well with the consistency 1, crumbly, dry but this time i take a try with the second consistency, the soupy one. So i did it in the same condition as the other time with the same mimosa batch.It use less naphta but nothing precipitate in the freeze, so i would like how i could rectify it. Adding more lime? in order to turn it crumbly as i do usually, or trying to evaporate some water, naphta remaining in the soup?

Thanks all, with all my compassion


I also had issues pulling with the consistency you describe. I was recommended to add more lime (and distilled water if necessary) to make a bread-dough type consistency. How long did you wait until your first pull? Apparently it can take some time for the bark to break down and release the dmt.
 
sirtween
#3165 Posted : 1/27/2020 3:34:24 PM
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Hi,

Usually i wait at least 24h our and with the crumbly consistancy its good enough.

I ve tried again after 3days but still nothing, i already done 3 pull with the dry consistency and harvest
0.265
0.250
And 0.500 of big chrystals for the third pull.

I will try to add more lime in order to dry it.

Thanks and take care of you
sirtween attached the following image(s):
IMG_20200125_152850_optimized.jpg (528kb) downloaded 174 time(s).
 
Samouzette
#3166 Posted : 2/13/2020 1:17:41 PM

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Hello.

I was wondering if a system where you can have your alkaline solution dripping into your warm NPS wouldn't be a more efficient way to pull the dmt out of it ? Or is mixing both remains a more efficient method?(The later seems counterintuitive to me)

Look upward and share the wonders i've seen.
 
HillyBill
#3167 Posted : 3/27/2020 5:06:27 AM
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Hi all! Thanks for being here and willing to share. I've spent more of my life than I care to admit to looking to acquire the God molecule. And, don't get me wrong it's been a great trip with tons of experience with sometimes massive doses. Good stuff, as a matter of fact some of the RCs (e.g. 4HO make me never want to go back to the "real dead." Anywho, mush love to this site. Thanks for being here Nexians.

Finally to my question: What materials are safe and which aren't for extraction? I'd love to see something comprehensive or a link to check generally. Background example to show my concern: bleach is fine in plastic, but don't store it in metal.

So, given the Norman Tek, using Lye and Naptha, what kind of containers are acceptable and which are ideal, and which ones at definitely s nope? May I measure naptha in a plastic measure conrainer? Will the Lye react with anything inorganic, or plastic?

I assume glass is fine across the board, but what about silicone spatulas or plastic syringes oe pipettes?

Thanks in advance,
Bill H.
 
downwardsfromzero
#3168 Posted : 3/27/2020 7:21:23 PM

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HillyBill wrote:
Hi all! Thanks for being here and willing to share. I've spent more of my life than I care to admit to looking to acquire the God molecule. And, don't get me wrong it's been a great trip with tons of experience with sometimes massive doses. Good stuff, as a matter of fact some of the RCs (e.g. 4HO make me never want to go back to the "real dead." Anywho, mush love to this site. Thanks for being here Nexians.

Finally to my question: What materials are safe and which aren't for extraction? I'd love to see something comprehensive or a link to check generally. Background example to show my concern: bleach is fine in plastic, but don't store it in metal.

So, given the Norman Tek, using Lye and Naptha, what kind of containers are acceptable and which are ideal, and which ones at definitely s nope? May I measure naptha in a plastic measure conrainer? Will the Lye react with anything inorganic, or plastic?

I assume glass is fine across the board, but what about silicone spatulas or plastic syringes oe pipettes?

Thanks in advance,
Bill H.

The search term you're looking for is "materials compatibility chart".
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
HillyBill
#3169 Posted : 3/28/2020 2:35:36 AM
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downwardsfromzero wrote:
The search term you're looking for is "materials compatibility chart".


Materials compatibility is exactly wtf what I was looking for! Thank you. Sincerely.

Also, a separate thank you for caring about page (i^2x-1x10^2)+ in the newb thread. There aren't that many places on the interwebs with real community, but I'm optimistic about the nexus. This one reply made it worth the wait to register.
 
Spirochete
#3170 Posted : 4/23/2020 10:08:48 AM

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HillyBill wrote:
Hi all! Thanks for being here and willing to share. I've spent more of my life than I care to admit to looking to acquire the God molecule. And, don't get me wrong it's been a great trip with tons of experience with sometimes massive doses. Good stuff, as a matter of fact some of the RCs (e.g. 4HO make me never want to go back to the "real dead." Anywho, mush love to this site. Thanks for being here Nexians.

Finally to my question: What materials are safe and which aren't for extraction? I'd love to see something comprehensive or a link to check generally. Background example to show my concern: bleach is fine in plastic, but don't store it in metal.

So, given the Norman Tek, using Lye and Naptha, what kind of containers are acceptable and which are ideal, and which ones at definitely s nope? May I measure naptha in a plastic measure conrainer? Will the Lye react with anything inorganic, or plastic?

I assume glass is fine across the board, but what about silicone spatulas or plastic syringes oe pipettes?

Thanks in advance,
Bill H.


In general, plastics are inert and will not react with anything that you will be able to get your hands on. When it comes to metals, they are generally less inert than plastics. Stainless steel should be used in all cases, although not even SS is completely inert. Glass is attacked by some compounds but for our purposes and the mild compounds we are using it's inert.
 
Woolmer
#3171 Posted : 5/13/2020 4:42:09 PM

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Hello! I have a jar of mimosa/lime/vinegar/traces of naphtha that has been lying around for about 6 months as I had given up on that extraction due to poor yields but did not want to toss the bark. I'd like to give q21's tek another go and was wondering if I should just kind of start from the top with more vinegar and then a bit of lime or should I just try to directly pull with naphtha?
 
Brennendes Wasser
#3172 Posted : 5/13/2020 7:09:39 PM

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This means that you already did the whole procedure with the Bark 1x and the yield was low?

Then if you do not have any clue what exact step could have shortened the yield, just start from the beginning.

You say you have lime + vinegar in your solution, but then the vinegar is definetly already neutralized by lime isnt it? You knew that the pH is definetly above 10 ? If yes, which should be the case (otherwise that would be the reason for low yield) then just acidify back to pH 3 with vinegar. If you think volume increase is bad for any reason then you could just use concentrated hydrochloric acid and of course only add minimal increments while acidifying.

Then at pH 3 just start cooking it again, this will also release the last traces of Naphtha, so dont wonder if it will smell stronger like mineral oil while cooking again. And after this basify again, like you did last time, to pH 10 or higher.

Possible reasons why yield was low:

- too short acidic cook (I would say 2 h would not hurt and is definetly enough)

- too low heat while coking (even 90 °C cant hurt your DMT)

- too low pH for pulling (anything below 10 may not freebase all your DMT)

- too low heat for extraction with Naphtha (DMT solubility in Naphtha strongly rises with T, therefore the migration into Naphtha is also much faster on higher Temperatures). I would even heat the mixture as high as possible (max would be lower vaporization range of Naphtha, mostly 60 °C).

- too short extraction time with Naphtha (for example: using a stirring bar on max setting should get nearly any DMT out in 10 minutes with 2 pulls - maybe even 5, but never bothered)

Maybe some times named here are overkill, but doing this would get everything out in 3 pulls in my opinion.
Check the

BIG Analysis on DMT !

Lots of interesting and possibly new stuff unraveled ;o
 
tripwire
#3173 Posted : 6/4/2020 10:16:37 PM
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Hi, after adding zinc dust to acidic solution containing some oxides and not, I have based to ph9 and the precipitate sinks. If i base further a huge amount of white precipitate will come out and all of it sink. Whatever this is cant be pulled with solvent. If i re-acidify, i can get everything to go back into solution with the same yellowish colour i started with.

Have i irreversibly ruined this batch? Is there a known problem with using zinc dust as an oxide reduction strategy? How can i get the alkaloids out of this solution?

tripwire attached the following image(s):
IMG_20200604_073414260.jpg (2,232kb) downloaded 70 time(s).
 
pastanostra
#3174 Posted : 6/4/2020 11:53:14 PM

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tripwire wrote:
Hi, after adding zinc dust to acidic solution containing some oxides and not, I have based to ph9 and the precipitate sinks. If i base further a huge amount of white precipitate will come out and all of it sink. Whatever this is cant be pulled with solvent. If i re-acidify, i can get everything to go back into solution with the same yellowish colour i started with.

Have i irreversibly ruined this batch? Is there a known problem with using zinc dust as an oxide reduction strategy? How can i get the alkaloids out of this solution?



What are you extracting?
 
tripwire
#3175 Posted : 6/5/2020 12:07:49 AM
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pastanostra wrote:

What are you extracting?


dmt
 
pastanostra
#3176 Posted : 6/5/2020 6:27:29 AM

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I believe its not too late, i would try :
Basify slowly to ph12/13/14 or until no solid precipitate
Then decant & filter keep apart the solids an liquid,
Try to pull with solvent on liquid
When evap solvent if you have what you want it could be good if no, the goodies are in the solids.

Take this as a newbie idea, maybe some experienced ppl can answer better.

 
downwardsfromzero
#3177 Posted : 6/5/2020 9:35:06 PM

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tripwire wrote:
Hi, after adding zinc dust to acidic solution containing some oxides and not, I have based to ph9 and the precipitate sinks. If i base further a huge amount of white precipitate will come out and all of it sink. Whatever this is cant be pulled with solvent. If i re-acidify, i can get everything to go back into solution with the same yellowish colour i started with.

Have i irreversibly ruined this batch? Is there a known problem with using zinc dust as an oxide reduction strategy? How can i get the alkaloids out of this solution?


By adding metallic zinc to an acidic solution you have made a solution of zinc salts. Adding base to that makes an insoluble precipitate of zinc hydroxide. You would need to be careful if extracting from this sludge as it increases the risk of forming emulsions.

Adding base to already precipitated zinc hydroxide may or may not cause it to dissolve - it can be a bit temperamental. Were you to have added an ammonium salt to the before adding the base, this would have kept the zinc in solution; there is a small chance it may work at this late stage. Adding a strong solution of ammonia may also help to dissolve the sludge but the fumes from the ammonia would be pretty nasty.

Best see what comes out of the solvent pulls before fiddling around too much as your chemical knowledge appears pretty rudimentary. As Pastanostra says, decanting and filtering off all solids before solvent pulls would be most desirable.

Re-acidification would inevitably increase the liquid volume. If you acidify only until the zinc hydroxide has dissolved, then add ammonium chloride, then boil the excess water off, you'll (probably) be able to add base and pull from a clear solution.

Good luck!

(And, IMO, fiddling around with zinc reduction for a bit of coloured DMT is a waste of effort. Wink )
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
tripwire
#3178 Posted : 6/6/2020 12:57:13 AM
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downwardsfromzero wrote:

By adding metallic zinc to an acidic solution you have made a solution of zinc salts. Adding base to that makes an insoluble precipitate of zinc hydroxide. You would need to be careful if extracting from this sludge as it increases the risk of forming emulsions.


Silly me, especially when i did this before too but had forgotten about it. Thank you for this reply, my limited knowledge left me flat on my face here.

downwardsfromzero wrote:

Adding base to already precipitated zinc hydroxide may or may not cause it to dissolve - it can be a bit temperamental. Were you to have added an ammonium salt to the before adding the base, this would have kept the zinc in solution; there is a small chance it may work at this late stage. Adding a strong solution of ammonia may also help to dissolve the sludge but the fumes from the ammonia would be pretty nasty.


I am glad i have held back and kept solution at just pH 9 until reading your post. I think this may open a better option from here.

downwardsfromzero wrote:

Best see what comes out of the solvent pulls before fiddling around too much as your chemical knowledge appears pretty rudimentary. As Pastanostra says, decanting and filtering off all solids before solvent pulls would be most desirable.


Yes I think thats prudent first step, i have got something from heating the solution as is with some naptha to 60c and got a single pull that was relatively cloudy. The solution as shown in image is relatively clean, so can clearly see whats floated and ready to go into solvent, and there isnt much. Theres actually zero of anything floated to top in the photo, i only got anything by heating to 60c with solvent and deliberately shaking into emulsion, which got a little to fall out. After emulsion settled, some good sign tan precipitate was not wanting to sink.

Perhaps after i got what i can this way, (and as long as not too tedious at ph9) i could filter off those promising looking light tan sediment shown in the photo sunk to the bottom of bottle. As opposed to the bright white zinc salt stuff which would dominate if i basified higher.

downwardsfromzero wrote:

Re-acidification would inevitably increase the liquid volume. If you acidify only until the zinc hydroxide has dissolved, then add ammonium chloride, then boil the excess water off, you'll (probably) be able to add base and pull from a clear solution.


(Do you really mean ammonium chloride? I just ordered aqueous ammonia which i think is the hydroxide)

This is where im leaning now especially given your balanced assessment of the situation. Im currently only at pH 9. It would only take a few drops of hcl to put all this back into clear solution. And a clear solution i can reduce to give me the volume i might need for say the ammonia.
I cant be reducing a basic mixture with freebase leaking out is that correct? Just mildly acidic to avoid fumes, but only 100ml tops to do.

If i do this, go back to slightly acidic, is it as if i never added the NaOH to basify? At this point would i be able to use the aqueous ammonia as if i had never used the other? If these answers are yes, then i see no downside to going this route instead.

Need confirmation on the aqueous ammonia versus ammonium chloride please Smile


downwardsfromzero wrote:

Good luck!


Thank you! Your reply and some others have really helped here, i will need less luck than i would have had you not replied. Please let me know if any conclusions i have drawn here are wrong, I like to see this as a learning experience.


downwardsfromzero wrote:

(And, IMO, fiddling around with zinc reduction for a bit of coloured DMT is a waste of effort. Wink )


I will never sprinkle zinc in my solutions without good cause again. I even added about 4g of not quite good enough fumarate crystals from an ipa re-x which had no business facing the zinc monster. I actually dread to think how much is in that bottle due to a series of amusing mistakes each of which at the time could be easily mopped up with a bit more vinegar. There could be maybe 8g freebase in there!

To anyone reading this, dont take stupidly unnecessary risks. If you want to experiment, use a sample. It might be helpful to post updates to this situation to give hope to others where things go wrong, mistakes are made. The Nexus is a place of learning after all. Watch out for the next update and see if improved i worsened the situation, take your bets! Laughing
 
tripwire
#3179 Posted : 6/6/2020 1:57:20 AM
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That single pull of naptha at 60c i mentioned in last post was just left in a small beaker slowly evaporating while i engaged online in chat and forum.

Here's whats showing. I guess thats promising. Theres still most of the naptha in there, only a little has been able to evaporate. There's no yellow layer like i usually get when pulling with naptha at 70c which i think is too hot.

But im not going to get much out of this at pH 9. A decision has to be made that will depend on any response to last post! Smile

tripwire attached the following image(s):
IMG_20200606_014239601.jpg (3,176kb) downloaded 37 time(s).
 
Zealousideal
#3180 Posted : 6/6/2020 8:05:11 PM
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Hi all,
I just attempted my first extraction using Q21Q21's vinegar/lime jimjam tek, everything seemed to go pretty well until the evap step and I want to try to figure out what I did wrong and if my end product is salvageable, deeply appreciate anyone taking the time to read this and try to help me out.

So I started with 50mg of mhrb, used pickling lime, 5% white vinegar, and d-limonene I drained from d-limonene gel capsules. I noticed the d-limonene was clear instead of the orange I'd seen others report. I left the mixed lime mixture for 24 hours before attempting the first pull.

After the non-polar wash and Acid wash/salting, I had about 75ml of clear vinegar/water solution left. Since the instructions said to heat on high until you have 75ml, I started out heating on low. I got it down to 25ml, then heated a smaller container, until I had <5ml of pale yellow liquid/tincture. My liquid never turned anywhere near brown. When I tried dropping some of this 5ml liquid onto a spoon over a candle, it bubbled and evaporated almost completely, leaving very thin brown rings and nothing/tiny amount of salt in the middle, instead of being brown goop all the way through to the middle. I tried scraping this and smoking it but nothing happened.

Did I possibly go wrong by never heating the vinegar solution on high? If I added more vinegar/water to the remaining 5ml solution and then heated it on high again, could that work? Does it sound like there should be dmt in the <5ml I ended up with? Is there a way to salvage what I ended up with? I also still have the jar with the cloudy solvent in it, and since this was the first pull, I'm hoping to figure out where I went wrong so I can do a second pull.

Thank you so much for any help!
 
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