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official extraction help thread Options
 
WhiteSands
#3121 Posted : 8/17/2019 8:31:59 AM
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Thick Coagulated Acid!!!


Has anyone Started there tek and had their first acid mix turned into thick Coagulated snot with the viscosity of egg whites?

Swim was very confident that he/she knew what they were doing after having several successes in that past with 50g- 100g Root Bark extracts.
He planned to roughly follow Vovins tek with vinegar instead of hydrochloric acid.

After acquiring 250g of MHRB marked (MMH Ayurveda) from a mysterious packet, he excitedly put it in a jar and added 60g of vinegar and then added 500g of hot microwaved tap water. This was obviously not enough water/acid mix so he repeated this 4 times splitting the mix into 5 jars in total.

Unfortunately now Swim had 5 Jars of thick sloppy goo. Normally the plant matter would sink to the bottom fairly easily and he would have to keep rotating it every now and then to mix the bark through the water. But there was little water consistency and the bark would not separate. So swim decided to add more water/vinegar, this time with Distilled water and a heat bath and then tried to filter the mix!

Swim now has approx 5- 6 Lr of Mix that refuses to thin out or go through any filter!!

Has anyone else experienced this?
Did swim mess it up by not mixing the water and vinegar together first before adding to the mix or did he have some bad bark?

 

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downwardsfromzero
#3122 Posted : 8/17/2019 6:11:20 PM

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WhiteSands wrote:
Thick Coagulated Acid!!!


Has anyone Started there tek and had their first acid mix turned into thick Coagulated snot with the viscosity of egg whites?

Swim was very confident that he/she knew what they were doing after having several successes in that past with 50g- 100g Root Bark extracts.
He planned to roughly follow Vovins tek with vinegar instead of hydrochloric acid.

After acquiring 250g of MHRB marked (MMH Ayurveda) from a mysterious packet, he excitedly put it in a jar and added 60g of vinegar and then added 500g of hot microwaved tap water. This was obviously not enough water/acid mix so he repeated this 4 times splitting the mix into 5 jars in total.

Unfortunately now Swim had 5 Jars of thick sloppy goo. Normally the plant matter would sink to the bottom fairly easily and he would have to keep rotating it every now and then to mix the bark through the water. But there was little water consistency and the bark would not separate. So swim decided to add more water/vinegar, this time with Distilled water and a heat bath and then tried to filter the mix!

Swim now has approx 5- 6 Lr of Mix that refuses to thin out or go through any filter!!

Has anyone else experienced this?
Did swim mess it up by not mixing the water and vinegar together first before adding to the mix or did he have some bad bark?


You messed it up by not thinking about what you were doing before doing it. At least try out any variation of a method on 50g or even 25g of the bark powder so you don't waste the whole lot if it goes wrong. OK, so you say you've done this successfully with 50 - 100g batches. Was this also with acetic acid or was it with hydrochloric? Scaling things up will not necessarily behave in a predictable fashion. Can you work out why?

The good news is you can simply add base to individual, sensibly-sized portions of the goop (which, incidentally, is probably viscous from precipitated tannins - assuming you have the right material) and proceed with the NPS extraction. With the right size of extraction vessel you should be able to work your way through that amount of liquid in about five batches. It is unnecessary to filter out the plant solids.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Piglet
#3123 Posted : 8/18/2019 7:28:49 PM
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Hi all. So my question is this: I tried extracting using Noman's Tek but used "Turpentine Mineral spirit thinner type 1" instead of Naptha - says "Naptha (petroleum) hydrodeslfurized heavy" on the label. After seperating the layers i placed it in the freezer over night and nothing happened. Should i keep it there? for how long? Tek says results should be seen in the morning after.

I used 20g MHRB powdered, this is my first try ever Smile
 
d.b.o.
#3124 Posted : 8/19/2019 5:36:09 AM
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with naptha it needs to be saturated for an impressive freeze precipitation, evaporation or distilling off of naptha to concentrate or super saturate the ratio of dmt/naptha and room temperature precipitation and crystal formation can be observed, very neat.
light blowing on the surface will "produce" a "cloud" of dmt within the liquid and is a good indicator that freezing will work.
also i find that a smaller glass jar or bottle with air tight or close lid is preferable to wide baking dish (for me anyway) helping concentrate formation in a small defined area. lid keeps condensation out and solvent in. i for one am not trying or wanting evaporation taking place in my freezer.

how your solvent affects this unknown, but acidic water mixed and pulled off will capture the alkaloids into it and re-based and pulled with a different solvent, if the original one did indeed pull any out.
 
Thespiritmolecule
#3125 Posted : 8/19/2019 8:00:13 AM
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Hello,

I followed the cybs salt tek several times, but i run into the same problem everytime.

When i am in the phase of adding the solvent it seems to go wrong.

I add the 50ml of naptha (zippo lighter fluid) to the base soup, i shake the bottle for about 20 to 30 seconds and afterwards i put the bottle in a pan with heated water (50 to 55 degrees)

The naptha seperates within an hour, but i lose a lot of naptha in this progress, atleast half of the naptha seems to be gone.

After the naptha is seperated i shake the bottle again and wait for a while, everytime i repeat this process it seems to get worse and i lose more naptha.

I also looked for any build up emulsion beneath the naptha layer, but that doesn't seem to be the problem.

Can someone help me with this problem, what goes wrong in this process, why do i lose so much naptha?

Thanks in advance!


Greetings,

Thespiritmolecule
 
Psilosopher?
#3126 Posted : 8/19/2019 12:01:46 PM

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Thespiritmolecule wrote:
Hello,

I followed the cybs salt tek several times, but i run into the same problem everytime.

When i am in the phase of adding the solvent it seems to go wrong.

I add the 50ml of naptha (zippo lighter fluid) to the base soup, i shake the bottle for about 20 to 30 seconds and afterwards i put the bottle in a pan with heated water (50 to 55 degrees)

The naptha seperates within an hour, but i lose a lot of naptha in this progress, atleast half of the naptha seems to be gone.

After the naptha is seperated i shake the bottle again and wait for a while, everytime i repeat this process it seems to get worse and i lose more naptha.

I also looked for any build up emulsion beneath the naptha layer, but that doesn't seem to be the problem.

Can someone help me with this problem, what goes wrong in this process, why do i lose so much naptha?

Thanks in advance!


Greetings,

Thespiritmolecule


You're losing so much naphtha because it's warm enough to evaporate.

You don't need to let the naphtha sit for long. Once it has stabilised and no emulsions, you can pull. The ideal amount of naphtha is 10% of the volume of your base soup.
"Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace." - Buddha
 
Piglet
#3127 Posted : 8/20/2019 1:34:22 PM
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d.b.o. wrote:
with naptha it needs to be saturated for an impressive freeze precipitation, evaporation or distilling off of naptha to concentrate or super saturate the ratio of dmt/naptha and room temperature precipitation and crystal formation can be observed, very neat.
light blowing on the surface will "produce" a "cloud" of dmt within the liquid and is a good indicator that freezing will work.
also i find that a smaller glass jar or bottle with air tight or close lid is preferable to wide baking dish (for me anyway) helping concentrate formation in a small defined area. lid keeps condensation out and solvent in. i for one am not trying or wanting evaporation taking place in my freezer.

how your solvent affects this unknown, but acidic water mixed and pulled off will capture the alkaloids into it and re-based and pulled with a different solvent, if the original one did indeed pull any out
.


Will you please help me with a guide for this procedure? I can't find one myself :/
 
downwardsfromzero
#3128 Posted : 8/20/2019 10:33:48 PM

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Piglet wrote:
d.b.o. wrote:
[...]


Will you please help me with a guide for this procedure? I can't find one myself :/

You'll have to be a little clearer. It's far from obvious What procedure you want to find out about.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
downwardsfromzero
#3129 Posted : 8/20/2019 10:40:31 PM

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Piglet wrote:
Hi all. So my question is this: I tried extracting using Noman's Tek but used "Turpentine Mineral spirit thinner type 1" instead of Naptha - says "Naptha (petroleum) hydrodeslfurized heavy" on the label. After seperating the layers i placed it in the freezer over night and nothing happened. Should i keep it there? for how long? Tek says results should be seen in the morning after.

I used 20g MHRB powdered, this is my first try ever Smile

You may have used too much solvent for that small amount of bark. Re-extract the base soup with a smaller amount of the naphtha you've taken out of the freezer.

Another possibility is that the naphtha contains aromatics (i.e. toluene and isomers of xylene) which do not freeze precipitate.

In both cases you can recover alkaloids as the acetates by extracting into white vinegar. If you require freebase the standard procedures can be followed.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Thespiritmolecule
#3130 Posted : 8/21/2019 7:22:38 PM
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Hello Philisopher and other travellers,

I solved the problem with these two adjustments in the extracting process:

1: Temperature was way too high; i lowered the temperature to 45 to 50 degrees

2: I shaked the bottle too vigorously; from now on i am twisting the bottle for 5 seconds and then twist it back so the naptha (in a smooth way) touches all the base soup

After i done this i didn't lose any naptha in the process, the seperation went very smoothly.

My first pull contained a nice amount of DMT and is nice and white, so i am very happy with this result.

Thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated!


Greetings,

Thespiritmolecule
 
Piglet
#3131 Posted : 8/24/2019 2:05:10 PM
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[/quote]
You may have used too much solvent for that small amount of bark. Re-extract the base soup with a smaller amount of the naphtha you've taken out of the freezer.

Another possibility is that the naphtha contains aromatics (i.e. toluene and isomers of xylene) which do not freeze precipitate.

In both cases you can recover alkaloids as the acetates by extracting into white vinegar. If you require freebase the standard procedures can be followed.[/quote]

I have used a ratio of 1:1 ml solvent per gr mhrb (as mentioned in Noman's tek). I started all over, same amounts but this time i used Zippo lighter fluid. 2 days in the freezer now, nothing happened :\
 
downwardsfromzero
#3132 Posted : 8/27/2019 10:26:14 PM

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Piglet wrote:
[...]I have used a ratio of 1:1 ml solvent per gr mhrb (as mentioned in Noman's tek). I started all over, same amounts but this time i used Zippo lighter fluid. 2 days in the freezer now, nothing happened :\
The thing is, it is possible that my sketchy MHRB powder [REDACTED] is fake... It is so hard [REDACTED] my country...

You know, we don't talk about how the bark manifested into being in your vicinity here. Check ATTITUDE

Bunk bark is extremely likely, especially nowadays.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Piglet
#3133 Posted : 8/28/2019 4:48:57 PM
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downwardsfromzero wrote:
Piglet wrote:
[...]I have used a ratio of 1:1 ml solvent per gr mhrb (as mentioned in Noman's tek). I started all over, same amounts but this time i used Zippo lighter fluid. 2 days in the freezer now, nothing happened :\
The thing is, it is possible that my sketchy MHRB powder [REDACTED] is fake... It is so hard [REDACTED] my country...

You know, we don't talk about how the bark manifested into being in your vicinity here. Check ATTITUDE

Bunk bark is extremely likely, especially nowadays.


You are totally right and i am very sorry. I read to Attitude section after i wrote it.
 
observe
#3134 Posted : 9/5/2019 8:01:23 PM
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Roughly 700g of mhrb was boiled for 5hrs on high heat. Multiple pulls were done on high heat with water(no acid) and collected in a seperate pot for reduction. After cooling 1/3 of the fluid was put in a mason jar,salt was added(no iodine) and basified(koh). A mixture of 50:50 xylene/naphtha was added, heated, and allowed to sit in the jar for a few weeks. The naphtha was collected and evaporated to yield a negligible amount of goo. The bark is potent so this yield is unacceptable. I added a lot more base in hopes the ph is simply too low. What do you think the problem is nexus?
 
Brennendes Wasser
#3135 Posted : 9/5/2019 10:06:31 PM

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Normally any TEK advise adjusting the water to pH ~ 3. But actually it is true that upon heating the bark it also acidifies the water to like pH 3,5. As you did not add acid manually, that could be changed in the future, but still that should not be the problem.

Was there any reason that you used also Xylene? It pulls more, but instead of Xylene I would advise just pulling more often with Naphtha. Xylene always produces goo. But still no explanation for too less goo.

If the pH is correct should also be visible from colour. Acidic bark soup = dark red like red wine. Upon switching to basic it becomes first grey then plain dark. But as you added KOH and no acid beforehand you should definetly be in a alkaline range.

Last but not least you did 1 very long extraction with NaphthaMadylene. Although it is nice to wait longer and just let it sit, there is a maximum where the equilibrium between aqueous soup and NPS (non polar solvent) occurs. And from this time no further uptake into the NPS is given. Normally you would think that all Spice will turn over into the NPS if you just wait long enough.
But every compound has a partition coefficient. Even NaCl should theoretically have a partition coefficient between water and naphtha, it is just practically 0 on the Naphtha side.

So by doing just 1 extraction you will never get all your goodies out of your soup. Then I would do more, but as it seems you do this right now. But still: even if doing only 1 extraction this should already yield like 70% + of your total goodies, depending on solvent Embarrased Crying or very sad
Check the

BIG Analysis on DMT !

Lots of interesting and possibly new stuff unraveled ;o
 
observe
#3136 Posted : 9/5/2019 11:07:16 PM
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Naphtha doesnt pull n-oxide unless heated. I grow crystals out of xylene and naphtha just red ones. The soup went from red to brown to jet black before i added my solvent. Ive thrown nothing away. Where is my dmt and how do i get most of it?
 
pete666
#3137 Posted : 9/5/2019 11:15:49 PM

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I believe acid IS necessary for boils.
How have you mixed np with the soup?
What was the pH when pulling?
Why was it left sitting for so long?
How do you know the bark IS good?
Acceptance of the fact that our reality is not real doesn't in fact mean it is not real. It just leads to better understanding what real means.
 
observe
#3138 Posted : 9/5/2019 11:28:25 PM
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I can reboil the bark. I take a rod and swirl the polar and nonpolar phase. I only have ph strips so i cannot accurately measure the ph of this thick black fluid. I left it sitting long because i was under the impression it could do no harm. Ive worked with this bark before yields roughly 1%.
 
observe
#3139 Posted : 9/5/2019 11:52:57 PM
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Do you believe the acidification is the problem im encountering?
 
pete666
#3140 Posted : 9/6/2019 8:24:20 AM

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I am a STB guy, my last A/B is about 15 years back, so maybe someone else could help you better, but...

I am not sure what is pH of your material. So adding some acid is probably safer. Moreover it may help to break up the material for better result.
Sufficient mixing of np with water soup is crucial. The more the better. Of course, beware of the emulsions, it is much better to do first extraction with unknown bark with small amount of MHRB and mix as much as possible. If strong mixing causes emulsion, next extraction mixing has to be done more carefully, but for much longer.
If you don't know the pH, are you sure you added enough base?
Leaving it sitting is not bad, it is just of no value.
So you worked before with this bark and got 1%? If you previously used the same technique and chemicals, then it might point to the bark. How you know it is the same?
Acceptance of the fact that our reality is not real doesn't in fact mean it is not real. It just leads to better understanding what real means.
 
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