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Storing mimosa hostilis Options
 
obliguhl
#1 Posted : 5/30/2008 11:48:18 AM

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Hi!
I'm new to DMT and was thinking about purchasing MHRB. I've read that it's pretty hard to store DMT crystals without them loosing potency. To my account, there are several methods:

-storing in salt form
-re-basifying the crystal in naphta, keeping it in the freezer
-melting the crystals to prevent oxiditation
-Storing it in the freezer, locked inside several air-tight container.

What about storing the rootbark itself? how about potency loss? It makes no sense for me to stockpile MHRB if I know that I can't use the bark in a year or two for extraction purposes. I mean..SWIM would like to know Very happy

SWIM thinks that it would be better to order MHRB as seldom as possible to avoid gouvernmental repression. So it would be very convinient for him if he coulkd stockpile the rootbark and to synthesize just a few mg at at the time to avoid potency loss.
 
 
Garulfo
#2 Posted : 5/30/2008 2:19:00 PM

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Quote:
I've read that it's pretty hard to store DMT crystals without them loosing potency


I'm sure a small vial in the freezer would be safe for years !
 
endlessness
#3 Posted : 5/30/2008 3:11:37 PM

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personally, seems to me DMT is very stable...

SWIM already smoked couple of years old DMT that was just kept inside some folded coffeefilter that was in a ziplock inside the fridge, and it was perfectly strong

just keeping it reasonably airtight (1 or 2 ziplocks, more than enough, or some kind of little vial) and in the fridge and it can be stored for a looooooooooooooong time.. imo not worth the trouble to melt, keep in naphta, etc etc
 
acolon_5
#4 Posted : 5/30/2008 6:41:40 PM

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Melting the spice seems to make it more potent. Not sure about the storage issue, but I always have some premelted spice on hand for special occasions. Stored in the freezer DMT seems to degrade very, very slowly and will probably last for many years.
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obliguhl
#5 Posted : 5/30/2008 6:56:01 PM

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Thanks for you comments!
Unfortunatly, the freezer is a problem, because I plan to move to a dormitory (shared freezer).
I've found a post @ the shroomery indicating that storing MHRB is not a problem in terms of DMT degeneration but it would be nice to have a verification for that.

The fact that molten DMT is more potent is a very interesting observation. Why not melt it as a part of the exraction process? Are there any downsides?
 
69ron
#6 Posted : 6/23/2008 11:27:36 PM

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SWIM had mimosa hostilis that was 8 years old. He was able to extract about 0.68% DMT N-Oxide from it, but almost no DMT. Overtime the DMT oxidizes into DMT N-Oxide. This is not too bad if you like the effects of DMT N-Oxide. It is active, but freebase DMT N-Oxide is a yellowish goo that will never crystallize. It can be diluted 10:1 with calcium carbonate to form a dry mix that is easy to measure and vaporize. Also, DMT N-Oxide can be converted back into DMT with very little effort.
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balaganist
#7 Posted : 6/22/2009 3:26:26 PM

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SWIM had ordered some powdered inner root bark fresh from brazil, and it will be more than he will be needing for a good while...
Would one be correct in assuming that storing it in the freezer until needed would be a good idea?
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opticuswrangler
#8 Posted : 6/22/2009 10:22:41 PM

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3 or 4 year old MHRB in whole strips, stored in plastic bags at room temp seems as good as ever. White and translucent elf dandruff. It doesn't go bad very quickly.
 
kungpow
#9 Posted : 6/24/2009 5:07:18 PM

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I store my MHRB in a vacuum sealed bag in a tubberware containter with the rest of my herb collection.

I have also read that DMT will lose potency easy, but I believe that is a load of bullshit. As long as it is not stored in open air with high heat you'll be good. I made the mistake of believing that urban legend and took way too much for a pharmahuasca experience. To say the least the experience was very unpleasant, and I will never underestimate the power of my spice.

~Peace Out
 
69ron
#10 Posted : 6/24/2009 6:24:27 PM

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DMT forms DMT N-Oxide if not stored properly. Heat and oxygen will cause DMT N-Oxide to form. DMT N-Oxide is not soluble in heptane or naphtha, so old bark can give the illusion of being weak if you did a normal heptane or naphtha extraction on it, but still be quite potent if used for making ayahuasca.

To preserve DMT, avoid storing it in hot areas, and keep it in an air tight container, preferably vacuum sealed.
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West-en
#11 Posted : 6/25/2009 11:27:43 AM

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69ron wrote:
DMT forms DMT N-Oxide if not stored properly. Heat and oxygen will cause DMT N-Oxide to form. DMT N-Oxide is not soluble in heptane or naphtha, so old bark can give the illusion of being weak if you did a normal heptane or naphtha extraction on it, but still be quite potent if used for making ayahuasca.

To preserve DMT, avoid storing it in hot areas, and keep it in an air tight container, preferably vacuum sealed.

This is quite interesting. What solvent should one use instead of alkanes if one wants to pull only the DMT N-Oxide (presumably after pulling out the last of the DMT)? Does it also pull jungle spice alkaloid(s), and if that's the case, how separate from N-Oxide? Also I'm quite fascinated by what you just said about ayahuasca, never thought of N-Oxide in terms of orally active but in terms of being water soluble and all, that makes perfect sense. Maybe active even without MAOI?

The big problem as I see it are the free radicals in the cells of the Mimosa Hostilis. No matter how you store it, the DMT will still degrade to the N-Oxide and after a while something else (?). The best one can do is slow the process down by lowering the temperature as much as possible, and of course guard it from external oxygen (as if the cellular components weren't enough). But when it comes down to it, fresh MHRB often contain much more DMT than stored.
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opticuswrangler
#12 Posted : 6/25/2009 3:00:35 PM

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The spice in the bark is not in freebase form, but a more stable salt. Any degradation occurring within the bark is happening to relatively stable compounds; we are not dealing with the oxidation of freebase spice when we are talking about bark. While I suspect some degradation may be inevitable, it appears that bark is easily stored a long time without discernible loss of quality.
 
West-en
#13 Posted : 6/25/2009 4:19:29 PM

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opticuswrangler wrote:
The spice in the bark is not in freebase form, but a more stable salt. Any degradation occurring within the bark is happening to relatively stable compounds; we are not dealing with the oxidation of freebase spice when we are talking about bark. While I suspect some degradation may be inevitable, it appears that bark is easily stored a long time without discernible loss of quality.

Yeah, I know it is in salt form but I thought it still was vulnerable to radicals. Strange. I hear different things from different people all the time. How come the bark harvested very newly (bought directly from Argentina) often contain more than the bark that's stored and reselled by American vendors?
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69ron
#14 Posted : 6/25/2009 7:44:40 PM

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West-en wrote:
69ron wrote:
DMT forms DMT N-Oxide if not stored properly. Heat and oxygen will cause DMT N-Oxide to form. DMT N-Oxide is not soluble in heptane or naphtha, so old bark can give the illusion of being weak if you did a normal heptane or naphtha extraction on it, but still be quite potent if used for making ayahuasca.

To preserve DMT, avoid storing it in hot areas, and keep it in an air tight container, preferably vacuum sealed.

This is quite interesting. What solvent should one use instead of alkanes if one wants to pull only the DMT N-Oxide (presumably after pulling out the last of the DMT)?


DCM works really well for pulling DMT N-Oxide. Naphtha and heptane don’t work at all for pulling DMT N-Oxide. I don’t know if d-limonene or xylene will work. DMT N-Oxide has an XLogP similar to that of bufotenine (5-OH-DMT). Bufotenine crystals are insoluble in both d-limonene and xylene at room temperature, but melted bufotenine is very soluble both solvents. The same might be true for DMT N-Oxide. More tests need to be done on DMT N-Oxide.

Some people claim DMT N-Oxide is soluble in xylene.

West-en wrote:
Does it also pull jungle spice alkaloid(s), and if that's the case, how separate from N-Oxide?


I have no idea. More tests need to be done on all of these alkaloids.

West-en wrote:
Also I'm quite fascinated by what you just said about ayahuasca, never thought of N-Oxide in terms of orally active but in terms of being water soluble and all, that makes perfect sense. Maybe active even without MAOI?


Active without an MAOI? That’s a good question. It seems to be. But SWIM needs to do more tests to be sure. He tested impure DMT N-Oxide and found oral activity without MAOI. But it was impure, so maybe something else in it allowed it to have oral activity?

West-en wrote:
The big problem as I see it are the free radicals in the cells of the Mimosa Hostilis. No matter how you store it, the DMT will still degrade to the N-Oxide and after a while something else (?). The best one can do is slow the process down by lowering the temperature as much as possible, and of course guard it from external oxygen (as if the cellular components weren't enough). But when it comes down to it, fresh MHRB often contain much more DMT than stored.


Yes. Many people have found that fresh mimosa is always stronger. DMT N-Oxide has about 1/2 the potency of DMT. Mimosa also has things other than DMT that are apparently active (jungle spice?), so as it ages who knows what these other compounds degrade into.
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SWIMfriend
#15 Posted : 6/25/2009 7:57:35 PM

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Ron, what do you think of this tek?

It sort of hints that ether is being used to pull DMT-oxide, and xylene for "jungle spice." It begins with everything in methanol...
 
narmz
#16 Posted : 6/25/2009 11:14:44 PM

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69ron wrote:
Also, DMT N-Oxide can be converted back into DMT with very little effort.


Could you explain what is involved in this process? Interested to know, because SWIM thinks he has quite a bit of this N-Oxide from some old bark. Also, if you could maybe explain the chemistry behind the process, why doing whatever you do, ends up converting DMT N-Oxide to plain DMT. Thanks.
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endlessness
#17 Posted : 6/25/2009 11:21:05 PM

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69ron
#18 Posted : 6/26/2009 1:45:30 AM

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SWIMfriend wrote:
Ron, what do you think of this tek?

It sort of hints that ether is being used to pull DMT-oxide, and xylene for "jungle spice." It begins with everything in methanol...


It's interesting, but it's wrong. You should use naphtha, then xylene, and then diethyl ether. Not naphtha, diethyl ether, and then xylene. This is because naphtha is the least polar and diethyl ether is the most polar. You should always go from least polar to most polar, not the other way around or in any other order.

Naphtha can pull the DMT.

Xylene can pull the "jungle spice" and maybe the DMT N-Oxide, but I doubt that.

Diethyl ether (very dangerous, DCM or ethyl acetate should be used instead) can then pull everything else. DMT N-Oxide is certainly soluble in diethyl ether.
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SWIMfriend
#19 Posted : 6/26/2009 1:51:52 AM

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cool. Thanks! I'll be trying it!
 
woody
#20 Posted : 7/9/2016 11:23:31 AM

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Reading the FAQ and other sources the advice is to store mimosa is cool dark place but those are getting harder for me to find at the moment. I've always kept mine at 14-18c but everything is going over 20c now and I won't be using it for a while.

I have read another option is to freeze it but as these threads are quite old I'd be interested to know if anyone here has used previously frozen mimosa and how it's worked out. What are people doing for long term storage?

 
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