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Plants with 5-MeO-DMT Options
 
Toastus
#1 Posted : 8/23/2010 7:11:18 PM

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I'm really interested in 5-MeO-DMT, but I haven't been able to find a plant or natural source (besides Bufo alvarius) that has 5-MeO-DMT as the major molecule. I read that Diplopterys cabrerana has high amounts of 5-MeO in it, but that involves extraction, and there's no way to obtain a live plant and grow it for myself. Virola species are known to have high levels of 5-MeO in them, but that is variable; it could have a majority of 5-MeO or regular DMT at any time, right?

If I'm wrong on any of the above points, please point it out. But otherwise, I'd like to know if you guys know of any plants that have high levels of 5-MeO that can be used to experience it rather than experiencing DMT. I would prefer to not use an extraction (unless its a simple water extraction or something that could be done simply), because I like to use completely natural things. What I'm asking is, is it possible to experience 5-MeO without extracting it from some source, or using a frog? If so, do you know of any plants that have a majority of 5-MeO-DMT?
Disclaimer: Everything in these posts is based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, rendering all contents of said posts null and void.
 

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69ron
#2 Posted : 8/23/2010 8:31:31 PM

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Virola theiodora contains pretty much just 5-MeO-DMT. Virola calophylla contains pretty much only DMT. It doesn't vary much. SWIM has never had Virola theiodora high in DMT and never had Virola calophylla high in 5-MeO-DMT.

The best option is the resin of Viriola theiodora.
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Toastus
#3 Posted : 8/23/2010 8:40:25 PM

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Well, crap. What I really want to do is grow a Virola theiodora tree, but that's pretty much impossible, isn't it? Nobody sells the seeds or live plants, and I'm pretty sure the seeds don't last long at all.
Disclaimer: Everything in these posts is based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, rendering all contents of said posts null and void.
 
Toastus
#4 Posted : 8/23/2010 9:07:04 PM

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So Virola theiodora is the older name of Virola elongata. I couldn't find any seeds or live plants of either, but I did find this:
http://www.tropilab.com/baboen.html
They offer seeds for it. Is it possible that the alkaloid content of Virola surinamensis is similar to Elongata?

Does anybody know anywhere else where I can get live plants or seeds of Virola theiodora/elongata?
Disclaimer: Everything in these posts is based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, rendering all contents of said posts null and void.
 
Toastus
#5 Posted : 8/25/2010 6:22:23 PM

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A better question would be: Has anyone who isn't you grown Virola species before? Is there anyway to get Virola plants?
I haven't found a theiodora or elongata yet... I'm starting to think its not possible, lol.
Disclaimer: Everything in these posts is based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, rendering all contents of said posts null and void.
 
69ron
#6 Posted : 8/25/2010 9:23:40 PM

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No, I don't know of anyone who's grown Virola before.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
Toastus
#7 Posted : 8/27/2010 2:33:04 AM

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Alright, so I'm fairly certain the only Virola SWIM could ever get is Virola surinamensis. I've tried to find the alkaloid content of surinamensis, but I haven't come across anything. Could any of you guys help with that?
Thanks Smile
Disclaimer: Everything in these posts is based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, rendering all contents of said posts null and void.
 
ms_manic_minxx
#8 Posted : 8/27/2010 2:41:35 AM

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There are other threads here that talk about quidding Chaliponga, since the n,n-dmt won't be active by chewing, but the 5meo would. So, you don't need a personal Chaliponga forest (as amazing and as beautiful as that would be), you can just chew some leaves.

Theoretically. Haven't done it successfully myself, though--the taste is-- Shocked
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Toastus
#9 Posted : 8/30/2010 2:33:44 AM

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Where can I get a Chaliponga plant? I've searched everywhere for them too, with as much luck as the Virola... lol
Disclaimer: Everything in these posts is based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, rendering all contents of said posts null and void.
 
endlessness
#10 Posted : 8/30/2010 3:05:49 AM

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Chaliponga does not contain 5-MeO-DMT in leaves.

When you have these kind of questions, first thing to do is dig through the suppliers section of the forum (look in other pages too, not just the first page), look the suppliers that have good reviews and search their websites. Im sure you can find something
 
Phlux-
#11 Posted : 8/30/2010 12:41:42 PM

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i got local access to a surinamensis too - what part of the world are u in toasty ?
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Toastus
#12 Posted : 9/1/2010 6:57:00 PM

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endlessness wrote:
When you have these kind of questions, first thing to do is dig through the suppliers section of the forum (look in other pages too, not just the first page), look the suppliers that have good reviews and search their websites. Im sure you can find something

Good idea. I did, and found nothing. Sad Oh well, lol.

Phlux, I live in Florida, USA. Where do you live?
Disclaimer: Everything in these posts is based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, rendering all contents of said posts null and void.
 
King Tryptamine
#13 Posted : 10/24/2019 9:43:13 AM

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Anyone got any other plant based sources viable for 5-MeO-DMT extractions as of 2019, let alone an extraction procedure itself for the compound? Going through various sources it still seems like the best way of obtaining this drug via a legitimate botanical source would be through the Virola theiodora tree. In other words a virtually impossible tree to find with the only chance being personally going to the Amazon rainforest and somehow smuggling back some seeds or a live plant provided you can even find it in the first place! I can bet my chances no one has actually grown this plant themselves or knows anyone who has.


Why is this compound so bloody elusive as to the only tried n true ways of sourcing it, is through a singular toad species and a chemical synthesis given its "SUPPOSEDLY" wide occurrence in nature. Seriously guys lets make some progress on this one, IMO this compound deserves much more respect than it is currently being given, maybe more so than N,N-DMT.


Mad
 
inaniel
#14 Posted : 10/25/2019 5:29:13 AM

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King Tryptamine wrote:
Anyone got any other plant based sources viable for 5-MeO-DMT extractions as of 2019, let alone an extraction procedure itself for the compound? Going through various sources it still seems like the best way of obtaining this drug via a legitimate botanical source would be through the Virola theiodora tree. In other words a virtually impossible tree to find with the only chance being personally going to the Amazon rainforest and somehow smuggling back some seeds or a live plant provided you can even find it in the first place! I can bet my chances no one has actually grown this plant themselves or knows anyone who has.


Why is this compound so bloody elusive as to the only tried n true ways of sourcing it, is through a singular toad species and a chemical synthesis given its "SUPPOSEDLY" wide occurrence in nature. Seriously guys lets make some progress on this one, IMO this compound deserves much more respect than it is currently being given, maybe more so than N,N-DMT.


Mad

I second this. I reached out to a nursery based in Europe who claims to occasionally receive viable, live Virola seeds from Peru.
 
rOm
#15 Posted : 10/25/2019 8:47:37 AM

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Virola would grow best in tropical region. but you rely can grow a small bonzaï or thin plant. Now we used to say the phalaris turkey red was the, one can grow which would have more 5 MeO DMT. If I were to try crack this down I'd prolly grow it as it would grow adult in temperate region.. BUt I think, in all honesty, not many already do some clean DMT with phalaris, and nobody managed to extract 5 MeO DMT. its not like noone cares King tryptamine, or not like you're the frist one who think, we should grow or even get plants and extract 5 meo dmt ( many think that yopo is a good source but in all experiences it was great source for bufotenin that's all ). Then, again, if I were in your shos I'd go after this phalaris turkey red, read all the GC/MS analysis done recently to see where we have good 5 meo amount. and then do an open thread when you're about to extract and separate and purify the compound.

So as I said, not only here, but online there are also dedicatezd forums about 5 meo or group of discussions and you'll see thousands of poeple like you who would like to extract it from plant source.
Seems like the Holy Grail of psychedelic in the way of its Quest. So far, the synthetic is the way to get the cleaner 5 Meo DMT. and the Incilius alvarius is the only way to eget decent organic 5 MeO DMT.
Be careful with the various claims, as you'll find also chaliponga was believed to contain 5 Meo DMT buit in all recent analysis it has no 5 but is heavy on n,n .... LIke for Yopo ( you have peregrina or colubrina) you'll find various claim and concetration of those three tryptamine, but I suspect some analysis might not have been doneproperly, leading poeple to believ or get confuse with the whole "bufotenine" " 5 MEODMT", some think thzt smoking the alvarius secretions is bufotenin too.. and I can tell you, at least subjectively there were no much bufotenin but rather clean 5 Meo DMT. It is closer in effect to n,n DMT but far less visual ( but you get the fractal symetry and some light ) and is more euphoric to me. ANd I must admit I tend to love euphoric psychoactive, so yes, I did quite dig the whole 5 MeO DMT situation as well, but I have to try grow this phalaris and see how to come around an isolate purified n,n DMT form Big Medecine or Illinois bunldeflower and, 5 Me O DMT from Turkey Red. That would be a huge step forward.


Even the virola theïodora which seems rather the only legit traditional plant based 5 MeO DMT source isn't used everywhere at all. It is found only in parts of venezuela, they call this snuff "Epena" and I've heard again about it in brazil from an ayahuascuero who did travel much for long all south america to learn about those ethnobotanicals. HE said it was already rare and thought after in its original region cause he tried it and loved it, but couldn't even buy some. I think you should go on a trip to the tribes that use it and try get seeds and all about it. It would be a good trip to work on 5 MeO DMT plant based. I did the Toad few times and for sure, am concerned now I see all those articles that the "trend" it seems to be and all the articles ( research about it is good but it's also a good publicity ) will pressurize the endemic amphibian some more, who was already much pressured by car traffick andpollution which is the number 1 cause of toads in Sonora.

So of course, there are groups and I see poeple everyday wanted to extract ( but they generally believe Yopo is a good source sothey'll probabbly all fail, all ten of thousands of poeple like you ).
SO yeh get Phalaris turkey red, and be careful when you extract ot have some clean extract, and make it tested by Endlessness or / and Benzyme. Probably wouldbe a good idea to get "Big Medecine" phalaris too, to first work on extracting clean DMT from it. It is not something that usual already to be self sufficient in n,n DMT, like grow those herbs enough to harvest every year and extract some good andclean enough product. Let alone do that with 5 MeO DMT. But of course, if someone would succeed and could make good and straighforward teks for cultivation to final end product n,n DMT and 5 MeO DMT, this would change the whole game and become like pilocybin mushrooms or mescaline cacti.YOU could all grow some as DIY from seeds, in temperate region ( many other plants are good in tropical regions ). also Bundleflowers is still a bit looked at as a possible n,n DMT source homgrown in temperate but not so much success yet since the 70s but some poeple seemed successfula and most failed.. a bit like with phalaris. in 50 years seems like 90% failed so thats why it is not usual yet.

I cannot grow phalaris much now but thats's something I'll probably grow when I have a garden again. And if I was doing a long trip to venezuala I'll make sure to go after this mysterious and rare "EPena". We saw a few "documentary" about its used, but again, not even sure it is always mainly 5 meo dmt or if it can varie with bufotenin and n,n DMT.
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King Tryptamine
#16 Posted : 10/25/2019 9:53:09 AM

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I was thinking of phalaris grass also, but even so, I can't seem to find any tried n tested extraction procedures for this analog in regards to the plant. Apart from the main I.alvarius and synthetic routes which seem to be either unethical or hazardous in terms of the law I think it would be the next best approach after V.theiodora. By any chance, provided this grass does indeed have the genes to bio synthesize 5-MeO-DMT would it at all be possible to create a cultivar via artificial selection, that produces this alkaloid in high concentrations in an analogous manner to say... the way P.somniferum or C.sativa have been bred and cultivated to produce larger concentrations of morphine and THCA, respectively, than would be seen to occur naturally. Would it's genetics even allow for that to happen? I only ask because I'm no biologist.

P.S. Now that you mention it, a viable botanical source for 5-MeO-DMT does seem to be the holy grail of psychedelic cultivation lol

Thanks for the much appreciated feedback rOm Smile
 
endlessness
#17 Posted : 10/25/2019 10:35:56 AM

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Old thread, I even forgot we actually had a suppliers section back then Very happy Anyway.....

Natural 5-MeO-DMT sources:

Below are the plants I've found most promissing
(K. Trout's SST @ p.124 names other plants with 5-MeO-DMT, mostly detected in smaller amounts or with no amounts given)


Anadenanthera falcata (syn. Anadenanthera peregrina var falcata)
Variable content but this plant has been found with
1- mainly 5-MeO-DMT (4.5+% in dry seeds!! Savio and Nunes et al 1962 in Trouts Notes )
2- mainly bufotenine (Source 1 my own tests from seeds I collected in Brazil, Source 2 Giesbrecht 1960 ref Trouts Notes ),
3- a mix of 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenine (Endophytic, Nexus 2013 )

Advantages: Seeds can be harvested sustainably. Easy to find (in Brazil). The seeds from this plant can be also bought online nationally(Store 1 , Store 2 - those are viable for replanting since they are sometimes used to recover degraded areas)
I'm not in Brazil at the moment, those stores dont seem to sell internationally but maybe a brazillian friend from someone could help out or some reshipping company can be used or something of the sort.

Disadvantages: Not found internationally. Alkaloid content might be very variable and not always have 5-meo-dmt (but certainly worth a try testing different sources to try and find good genetics or find the growing conditions which influence 5-MeO-DMT content)


Pilocarpus organensis. (syn. Pilocarpus pauciflorus)
0.24% 5-MeO-DMT in leaves (Balsam, Voigtländer, 1978)

Advantages: Occurring in Brazil in almost all the country, can probably be grown outside of the tropics in temperate zones since it also grows in South of Brazil. Leaves can be harvested sustainably and seem high yielding from this one publication.

Disadvantages: No apparent online supplier of seeds/viable plants (but local collection in Brazil and if promissing we can try to spread seeds/cuttings internationally). Some species of the same genus contain potentially toxic pilocarpine (this could potentially be removed if there and wasnt yet detected in this particular species)

Dedicated discussion on this plant


Desmodium pulchellum
(syn. Phyllodium pulchellum)
Whole plant
5-MeO-DMT - 0.476%
DMT - 0.294%
5-Methoxy-N-methyltryptamine - 0.154%
Bufotenine - 0.112%
Gramine - 0.098%
5-Methoxy-DMT-N-oxide - 0.070%
DMT-N-oxide - 0.070%
5-Hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine - 0.056%
6-Methoxy-Nb-methyl- H4-β-carboline - 0.028%
Bufotenine-N-oxide - trace
(Ghosal et al. 1972c in Trouts Notes)

Whole plant seems to be viable, but not seeds nor fruits, nor root of young plants, all of which contain much less of the wanted tryptamines. ( Voogelbreinder, S. 2009)

Advantages: Large amounts of 5-MeO-DMT in plant. There are a few seed vendors online, just google either "desmodium pulchellum seeds" or "phyllodium pulchellum seeds" (though seeds are not themselves good source of 5-MeO-DMT)

Disadvantages: Found mostly in Asia, young plant Mixed alkaloid content (though 5-MeO-DMT could potentially be separated from other alks).

Dedicated discussion on this plant.

Virola theiodora
Epena snuff made from virola theiodora resin was found with very high quantities of 5-MeO-DMT, up to 9.68%! (Agurell et al 1969 in Trout's Notes). It seems most is concentrated in the resin which is extracted from the live plant's bark. The bark itself has 0.11% (again Agurell et al 1969 in Trout's notes).

Advantages: Large amounts of 5-MeO-DMT specially in resin..

Disadvantages: Only found in the Amazon.


Phalaris spp.


Phalaris arundinacea var Turkey Red: 0.0025% to 0.045% 5-MeO-DMT wet weight
Phalaris aquatica var. stenoptera: 0.236% in 7 day old leaves dry weight (Mccomb et al 1969),

Other Phalaris have occasionally shown some 5-MeO-DMT, sometimes none, such as aquatica, arundinacia, brachystachys (Trout's notes)


Advantages: Can be grown all around the world indoors or in a lot of areas outdoors. Many sellers of live cuttings/seeds online (I have no clue on quality/yield of those available sources)

Disadvantages: Low/insignificant yields specially in some genetics (in the higher yielding genetics the content is better but no data on what is more common). Alkaloid content varies wildly.

To increase 5-MeO-DMT content, grow with ammonium-based nitrogen fertilization, harvest in late morning, and harvest the first regrowth of young seedlings of no more than 7 days old. (Festi and Samorini 1994) Also dont dry before extracting, extract fresh (Barnes et al 1971)

Dedicated discussion on this plant.


Bufo alvarius

Average in dried secretion (Uthaug, M.V. et al 2019)
26% 5-MeO-DMT
0.1477% Bufotenine
0.0028% DMT
0.00654% NMe-5HT
0.000925% Bufogenin
0.1682% 5-MeO-Tryptophol


Advantage: Reliable 5-MeO-DMT content, very little of anything else.

Disadvantage: Ethical questions regarding purchasing/having an animal or harvesting from them.


Other mentioned but non-viable sources:

Diploterys cabrerana - I suggest we forget this one, all 4 analysis including my own so far have shown 5-MeO-DMT to be absent or only in trace amounts in leaves. Mentions of 5-MeO presence are rumors/misinterpretation of values in publications (sources)


Found a potential plant source - Now what? How to test?

1- Make sure to properly identify plant, post detailed pics of plant parts.
2- Do an initial small extraction with relevant plant part and test with TLC and/or post here for free lab test. At the very least use a drop of ehrlich on a crude extract like an evapped alcohol soak, and see if it turns pink which indicates tryptamines, and separately also use mandelin, to detect if it turns black which would indicate gramine presence. Do not consume plant before testing!
3- If the plant shows promiss, extracting using any typical extraction in this forum. A normal DMT extraction should work for 5-MeO-DMT. You can also use limonene/toluene/xylene to be less selective and increase yields, and clean up later if necessary.
3- Share the information by posting in this subforum, whether tests were positive or negative




 
corpus callosum
#18 Posted : 10/29/2019 4:19:36 PM

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Here is a vid of a presentation by the Nexus member Chocobeastie on his quest to find a decent plant source of 5 MeO DMT. He has kindly permitted its posting here. Pretty interesting stuff. Thumbs up


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s0abuEfugU
I am paranoid of my brain. It thinks all the time, even when I'm asleep. My thoughts assail me. Murderous lechers they are. Thought is the assassin of thought. Like a man stabbing himself with one hand while the other hand tries to stop the blade. Like an explosion that destroys the detonator. I am paranoid of my brain. It makes me unsettled and ill at ease. Makes me chase my tail, freezes my eyes and shuts me down. Watches me. Eats my head. It destroys me.

 
endlessness
#19 Posted : 10/29/2019 9:52:02 PM

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Thanks for sharing corpus callosum.

I was skimming through some of the presentation and when he mentions Pilcarpus he says he "tasted the bark and decided it tasted toxic" so didn't proceed to exploring this plant further. He has all the right to do as he wants of course but to me I wouldn't even have bothered tasting (that sounds potentially dangerous and not reliable), I'd just get samples from different plant parts and test it with actual analysis.

Tasting is not a reliable way to test for alkaloid content (one example). Also, chocobeastie tasted the bark, while the publication that says it contains 5-MeO-DMT is talking about the leaves, and no pilocarpine has been found in that particular species so far.

Lastly, even if the plant contained some sort of unwanted alkaloid, there might be simple safe ways to separate them, only way to know is to test it out.
 
rOm
#20 Posted : 11/1/2019 3:00:55 PM

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Waow !! thank you Endlessness for such a nice compilation.

Ok am gonna try soon threvirola theiodora innerbark preparation and this time it shouldn't be bunk.
Finally getting my hand on some nice snuffs and oral pellets prepaired by tribesmen and garantedd by a friend who tried first.
I'll see and report.
Its good cause I have only did synthetic and toad based 5 MeO DMT.
AM conscious 5 meo dmt ishard to isolate andfind in good quatity in plants but it is worth the research (like for alternative plant source n,n DMT, especially, temperate plants or plants we could do indoors and have a clean or non toxic extract ).
And yes Enlessness, am with you, while I understand where gut feeling comes when you "taste", I hadmany poeple turned off with things saying if your body feels toxic,then avoid it.. well then you don't do any bitter medicianl herbs, you won't do kambo while the "toxic" feels is very detoxifying usually in most cases ( carful though do'nt jump in there alone unprepaired it is very hard physically on some poeple and could have bad interaction or scary side effects that makes you freak out for your own life ).

Anyway, funnily I once thought am gona die on 5 meo dmt and it was synthetic but I accidentally dosed with harmalas.. so yeh. do'nt do this although some poeple like me survive, some seem to be dead with the combination.
Also I know for toad 5 meo there are lots of restrictions. SO please do'nt mix with anything 2 weeks minimum for safety if you're unsure. we do'nt want anyone to get hurt or die while psychonauting. and its not because someone did survive such combo or dose that you will.

I for one, took many risks and am glad to still be here, but I know there are many things I'll don't risk once again. Also some poeple died after three times on the same combo/ drug/ dosage. So even for you, be careful.
When doing researhcon new source for n,n or 5, as endy said, do a crude extract and test it,and probaly ask also and wait before bioessaying. Many plants have toxic material you do'nt want to ingest. many psychonauts got a hell of a trip for ingesting phalaris for instance. so please, don't just jump in bioessay phase, think of it, like we do for new drugs, we do lots of analysis and research before jumping onto in vivo esp. human bioessays.

Don't dose your pet to seeif he survive. that is just immorral too. your pet didn't ask to bioessay and also alcaloids are deadly to dogs or other pets, and fine for us, and vice versa. like some plants your goat can eat or your rabbit, but it can poison you. so beware.

thanks, that was the caution quarter of hour, by rOm.
Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
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