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Jesus possibly referencing DMT? Options
 
JamesLove
#1 Posted : 8/14/2010 7:21:29 PM
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Jesus possibly referencing DMT?

When gnostics speak of salvation, they mean being freed from these illusions of darkness so that they can perceive Reality. As Jesus said, "I tell you the truth when I say that only when you perceive shadows as shadows, and search the Light, will you perceive the Reality which is God." (IBID.)

It is your privilege to learn the mysteries of the realm of the Eloheim because you have entered the Covenant," Jesus replied, "but to those who remain outside the Covenant, Truth can be shown only in parables. This is because they live in a world of illusions and shadows where Truth is hidden from them. Only the shadow of Truth can reach them until they reject the lie and come into the Covenant of Light." *** In this way, Jesus used many parables to point their minds to the word, for the parables were all they were able to receive, but through the parables, some of them would have their minds opened and would begin to perceive the Inner Truth. When he was alone with his disciples, however, Jesus expounded these principles, unfolding before their minds greater Light and carrying them deeper into the mysteries of the spiritual realm. (Testimony of St. Mark 4:10-11, 26-27)

"Will the thirst for knowledge ever be quenched?" he replied, "When once you have drunk from the spring of knowledge, you will return again and again, for each time your thirst is satisfied, a new thirst will grow, greater than the first. The more you drink, the greater will be your desire to drink, but in the intensity of your desire, you will be filled. I tell you the truth when I say that whoever seeks will find, and the finding will cause him to seek, but in the seeking is hidden the meaning of Life." (Sayings 1:12)

Change of life is the Eternal quest for radiant Light. Look up, my children. There are worlds of knowledge which do not even glimmer on your horizon. Universes are unfolding beyond your perception. Worlds being born, dying, being renewed in Light are your heritage. Come, my children; take your place among the stars. Let the Deity within you blaze up. (Book of Covenants 1985-4:9)

"The kingdom of heaven is spread out upon the earth, and men see it not," Jesus is recorded as saying in the Gospel [of St. Thomas]

2 Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

3 Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

70 Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you."

77 Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.
Split a piece of wood; I am there.
Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

83 Jesus said, "Images are visible to people, but the light within them is hidden in the image of the Father's light. He will be disclosed, but his image is hidden by his light."

94 Jesus [said], "One who seeks will find, and for [one who knocks] it will be opened."

108 Jesus said, "Whoever drinks from my mouth will become like me; I myself shall become that person, and the hidden things will be revealed to him."

113 His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."
 

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wade
#2 Posted : 8/14/2010 8:29:21 PM

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if I were you I would stop trying to connect things like dmt to very old and very out of date things like jesus.
let go of jesus.
explore consciousness for what it is.
sorry to burst your bubble, but no

 
obliguhl
#3 Posted : 8/14/2010 8:53:40 PM

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I don't think that he was referencing DMT, but a spiritual truth you can access WITH Dmt.
 
BananaForeskin
#4 Posted : 8/14/2010 10:18:28 PM

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Quote:

I don't think that he was referencing DMT, but a spiritual truth you can access WITH Dmt.


Agreed. In my opinion, he is simply referring to true knowledge of reality, and DMT/psychedelics are only one of many paths to that knowledge.



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olympus mon
#5 Posted : 8/14/2010 10:48:05 PM

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thanks for posting that. when i first read the title i kind of rolled my eye's because it seems peopl are always trying to find connections in jesus teachings or the bible where often their references are weak and really reaching.

however, there was some really good stuff here. i agree with obliguhl that it sounds like these referneces are about self/consciousness discovery through psychedelics and alchemy rather than any actual substance.

thanks good read.
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JamesLove
#6 Posted : 8/14/2010 11:27:12 PM
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There is a bit more to the story here. Most of these quotes were actually from the gnostic gospels. For those that don't know, the gnostic gospels are non-canonical gospels about Jesus which didn't make the final cut into the Bible.

The gnostic gospels are weirder than the traditional canon. They are much more "the kingdom of heaven is from within" rather than "be a good boy and go to church and obey the church leaders." Perhaps it is not a surprise that the Church rejected these.

Anyway, about half of the quotes I originally listed were OK. But I found five to be very interesting in particular. People who dismiss the Jesus/DMT connection may want to focus on these in particular:

"The kingdom of heaven is spread out upon the earth, and men see it not,"-psychedlics would fit in well with explaining this mysterious quote

"Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel..."-the key word here is disturbed. This is very off from the traditional religious teachings and would fit in quite well with psychedelics.

"the kingdom is within you and it is outside you."-Note DMT fits the bill rather nicely here over other psychedelics

"Split a piece of wood; I am there."-DMT found in abundance in bark in particular.

"hidden things will be revealed to him"-psychedelics really fit the bill. The answer is there but it isn't obvious.
 
TrustLoveMan
#7 Posted : 8/15/2010 4:22:19 AM

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http://video.google.com/...cid=7785317849743909385

The OP may like this.

*edit*
That's my bad, I was thinking this was a doc. on phycedelics in the bible. It's still interesting though.
All Posts are fiction and only exist to entertain

 
88
#8 Posted : 8/15/2010 5:01:35 AM

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The Gospel of Thomas is a great text - I think it provides an alternative view on Jesus that is to my mind more consistent in it's philosophy, and that feels less tampered with than the traditional canonical text.

As it is a collection of Jesus' supposed sayings - unembellished with the familiar, imposed narratives of the biblical gospels - it feels more raw. And although the meaning of its short verses is often obscure and requires consideration, its tone and language is more like a Zen koan than the flowery stories of fishermen and virgin births, carved deeply with biblical certainty.

This style of using efficient, cleverly worded riddles which at once make the listener pay attention and remember is consistent across through the text. This consistency is less evident in the four accepted Gospels, though they do paint a picture of the disciples never quite understanding what Jesus was talking about.

Was Jesus using spice? Who knows.

:-D
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jbark
#9 Posted : 8/15/2010 2:58:17 PM

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If you haven't already, check out "magic mushrooms & alchemy". A bit farfetched, but i think you'll get a kick out of it. Of particular interest and perhaps import is the segment on alchemy - i always suspected that alchemy was a somewhat veiled psychedelic cult, but had never suspecte amanitas!

Happy reading
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JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
JesusGreen
#10 Posted : 8/15/2010 6:02:01 PM

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Great read. I personally believe Jesus indulged in psychedelics himself, and tried to convey the lessons they taught in his teachings. If only modern Christianity wasn't such an exact opposite to some of the things he taught. The classic example being:

Quote:
"You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments." (RSV Exodus 20:3-6).


..And yet what's the first thing you see when you walk into any church? Rolling eyes

Anyone who hasn't given it a proper read should actually read through the Bible. You will probably learn more from it than any Christian ever will because sadly some people are led astray by the people in power, aka the Church. Read it as a historical document rather than God's word or set fact - and you'll notice that Jesus was just the Terrence McKenna of his day, trying to deliver a positive message, trying to help people - but persecuted and turned into the very thing he preached against.

Almost forgot to mention, I'm not sure as to whether he would have ever experienced DMT itself, but I'm sure he had some experience with psychedelics and transcendental experiences of some sort.

 
obliguhl
#11 Posted : 8/15/2010 6:15:55 PM

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Quote:
The Gospel of Thomas is a great text - I think it provides an alternative view on Jesus that is to my mind more consistent in it's philosophy, and that feels less tampered with than the traditional canonical text.


If you want to get to know a true jesus....read it
 
JamesLove
#12 Posted : 8/16/2010 1:37:53 PM
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"if I were you I would stop trying to connect things like dmt to very old and very out of date things like jesus.
let go of jesus."

Wade, if you are still reading this, I would be curious as to your thoughts on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_sun

This has to be considered to be the greatest paranormal event of the 20th century. I cannot think of anything that is even close to it.
 
mandelbrot
#13 Posted : 8/16/2010 2:32:12 PM

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JamesLove wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_sun
This has to be considered to be the greatest paranormal event of the 20th century. I cannot think of anything that is even close to it.

Quote:
According to many witness statements, after a downfall of rain, the dark clouds broke and the sun appeared as an opaque, spinning disc in the sky.[2] It was said to be significantly duller than normal, and to cast multicolored lights across the landscape, the shadows on the landscape, the people, and the surrounding clouds.[2] The sun was then reported to have careened towards the earth in a zigzag pattern,[2] frightening some of those present who thought it meant the end of the world.[3] Anecdotally, some witnesses reported that their previously wet clothes became "suddenly and completely dry."[4]


So a bunch of people staring at the sun and seeing things is a paranormal event?
No, no, no. It is not paranormal.. it is normal.
Didn't you ever wonder why your mother told you to never stare at the sun?

Come on now, JamesLove. Everyone is searching for something. If someone held with high regards told his followers to stare at the sun on some certain day, do you not think that out of (from the article) 100,000 people, a good number of them would practically force themselves to see something?

This "miracle of the sun" is a bunch of hooey if you ask me.

And, really -- who cares if Jesus was on psychedelics or not. Apparently, a bunch of people liked him but really didn't understand him; and a lot of people, even to this day, will say he fed 100,000 people with two fish and some bread. Do you really believe that, too?
-mandelbrother
 
JamesLove
#14 Posted : 8/16/2010 2:52:19 PM
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The three kids predicted on a given day at exactly Noon a miracle would occur.

About 70,000 people showed up. Believers, non-believers. Reports for Communist newspapers, etc.

At that exact time, the Sun came out and started dancing around and careemed towards earth a number of times. There were about 70,000 witnesses to this including many atheists and non-believers and people working in nearby fields who had no idea about any prediction of any kids.

What is the most likely explanation-something very odd happened that day or it was just a bunch of BS?

Are you the one with the closed mind?

I am interested in the paranormal. I am not religious and have not gone to church in 20 years. I am looking at this event as a paranormal event.

If anybody thinks that such an event is not extraordinary, I believe that they are not looking at the facts with an open mind.

As for Jesus' old miracles, that is why I find the 1917 situation much more interesting as it is difficult to verify something that happened 2000 years ago.
 
JamesLove
#15 Posted : 8/16/2010 2:58:53 PM
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"If someone held with high regards told his followers to stare at the sun on some certain day"

This is false. The Sun was not a part of the prediction. The Sun started to act weird and somebody noticed it and everybody turned around.
 
ragabr
#16 Posted : 8/16/2010 3:02:58 PM

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Tanganyika laughter epidemic, Dancing Manias, just two fascinating examples of Mass Psychogenic Illness. Look at how many people experienced severe conversion symptoms during these experiences.

Then look at the research on implanting false memories.
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JamesLove
#17 Posted : 8/16/2010 3:25:55 PM
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Interesting reads.

The laughter epidemic, in particular, is really fascinating. I'm not sure what to make of that one. Definitely a head scratcher. I have never heard of that one before.

The Dancing Manias also is interesting as well. My original guess was ergot (it sounded like LSD daancing at Grateful Dead shows). But they rebuked that at the end of the article saying that ergot poisoning hurts the limbs. For this we have the same problem as Jesus' miracles-they are so old it is hard to verify or analyze it and you have to wonder about the veracity of the report.

As for the other articles, I didn't see too much that really applied to the situation.

There is all sorts of strange stuff out there, no doubt. The Phoenix Lights had people saw a craft which ranged in estimation width of 1 to 3 miles long. The governor of AZ saw it himself. Do we have military capabilities of such a craft? I don't know.

However, there are just too many witnesses who were non believers who saw TMOTS. The fact that the kids predicted at the exact day and exact time and saw a celestial body move around and shoot towards the earth is quite remarkable. Explantions of mass hallucination and the like just do not ring true to me and smack of somebody trying to fit their theory into the facts. If you spend some time and research it, the more you dig, the more inexplicable the story is.
 
mandelbrot
#18 Posted : 8/16/2010 3:26:55 PM

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JamesLove wrote:
"If someone held with high regards told his followers to stare at the sun on some certain day"

This is false. The Sun was not a part of the prediction. The Sun started to act weird and somebody noticed it and everybody turned around.


This is not false. I was drawing parallels. I'm giving you fuel to try and ignite some skepticism within.
Even so, why would anyone believe three children tending to sheep and most likely noshing on datura?

Let's think about this logically, JamesLove.
Now, either this was localized visual mind trickery a la' God/Devil/Thor/[Insert Deity]; the sun was actually moving about and "careemed[sic] towards the earth a number of times"; a music festival where everyone drank some spiked punch; or just a story.

Now I won't go into all these possibilities because all but one is debatable -- the second one.
I'll kill this idea in one fatal swoop of a word: Gravity.
The movement of the sun, other than it's already minute rotation of it's own center of gravity, would cause mass chaos. Our earth would spiral out of orbit and we would most likely die by collision or lack of heat. So unless you can disprove the beautiful mathematical theorems that were begun by Galileo, I think we are in agreement that this "paranormal event" was not a physical one.

So, this leaves us with a bunch of people tripping in a field, a simple story, or a visual trick.
If it were any of these possibilities, who cares? It had no effect on our physical realm, except the creation of a meme, and a bunch of people convinced that staring at the sun was a good idea (read SunGazing)
You are tied to the physical realm.
All you touch and all you see, is all your life you'll ever be.
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mandelbrot
#19 Posted : 8/16/2010 3:28:09 PM

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JamesLove wrote:
For this we have the same problem as Jesus' miracles-they are so old it is hard to verify or analyze it and you have to wonder about the veracity of the report.


And your 1917 "paranormal" event is not questionable in the least bit.. right?

-mandelbrother
 
JamesLove
#20 Posted : 8/16/2010 3:42:16 PM
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"Even so, why would anyone believe three children tending to sheep and most likely noshing on datura?"
They kids were imprisoned by the communists who tried to force them to admit they were lying. The children asked the apparition of the Virgin Mary to give a sign that they were not lying.

So the kids told everybody on Oct 13 at high Noon at the field there would be a miracle. Lots of people were obviously skeptical. You can talk all you want...but it was one hell of a prediction. Talk about talking the talk and walking the walk.

Did the SUN actually do this? Highly unlikely as the Sun appeared to be fine elsewhere in the world. The kids never made any predictions about the sun. Do not make the mistake of obsessing over the sun.

The miracle was the made a prediction with a date and time and something very, very, very odd happened that day with 70,000 witnesses which freaked the living crap out of everybody.

"So, this leaves us with a bunch of people tripping in a field"
Um...no.

", a simple story"
Was in newspapers the next day. You need to research more.

", or a visual trick."
Well, as I said, it probably wasn't THE SUN so it was some sort of weird thing. So what is the probability that these poor kids could come up with some seriously hardcore magic trick like that in 1917?

To me, the 4th option, which you do not list, is the most likely. A supernatural event occurred.




"And your 1917 "paranormal" event is not questionable in the least bit.. right?"
For me, 70,000 people 90 years ago who all said the same thing is a lot more believable than 2000 years ago. Should you question it? Absolutely. Do the research. I have spent quite a few hours over years analyzing this, as I have the Phoenix Lights, the mysteries of Quantum Physics, String Theory, DMT, etc. etc.
 
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