Hey all,
I'm new to this forum and cant say how happy i am to find it.I've wanted to experience dmt for over fifteen yrs, (when i read terrence mckenna's books) but it was one of those drugs i could never come across not even at grateful dead shows. SWIM found another good forum and fell upon the "Mars Tek", which people seem to like and seems fairly straight foward.SWIM went out and bought a crockpot and ordered 500g of ground mhrb from an outfit in netherlands.He started the process and now he is letting the naptha seperate and will suck up the clear top layer for a freeze precipitation.Being that he is a newbie he would be grateful for any input and advice. SWIM has been taking pictures for his "extraction log" and i told him i would attach them to a thread for feedback. Like i said he is using the mars tek,which usually calls for 1 lb.of mhrb.SWIM decided that being that its his first time, to start w/ 1/2 lb of mhrb (and cut all other ingredientsin in half),that way if he really screws up he has more mhrb.Anyway, i'm glad to have found this place (dmt-nexus), so i can be a sponge for the knowlegde and experience of others psychnauts here and meet other like minded individuals.Anyone fells like sending a message or just say hello,thats cool. Like i said i'm attaching pics, so take a look and any feedback would be appreciated.
-D

hello and welcome

Seems you are doing it pretty well, so there´s not much I can say unless you come to a specific difficulty...

just one thing, I dont remember the mars tek so dont know if you would do this anyways but, before sticking the naptha for freeze precipitation, remember to pre-evaporate some of it (as an example, if it was 250ml, make it maybe 100 or 80 or smt), because if the solution is more saturated, it will be easier for crystals to form

thanx for saying hello. I'm not sure exactly what you mean. whats smt? the naptha that SWIM is about to suck out of a whine jug (trying not to get any of the darker soultion in the mix) and put in a small baking pan to freeze. Are you saying to let it sit out at room temp. first and let some of the naptha evaporate? SWIM used 150ml of naptha for 224g of mhrb

Yeah that is what he is saying. It's a good idea to allow some of naphtha to evaporate before you put it in the freezer, as the concentration of DMT must be high enough in the solution for it to crash out when the proper temperature is reached.

Everything has been going pretty smooth. The only issue SWIM ran into was the wine jug that he decided to use for the basification and the non-polar extraction was a little to small. It was big enough for the cooked mhrb soulution but SWIM had to add another 1/2 pint h20 w/45g lye and another 150 ml of naptha and he knew it was gonna over flow. so he added the lye/h20 solution to the cooked mhrb untill it became black and then he "eye-balled" the amount of room he needed in the jug in order to make the naptha fit. So he just poured out some of the solution into another jug so he could make the naptha fit. It's not very much. what should he do w/ it.I'll attach a pic so you can kinda see the amount. It now doesnt give me the option of adding an attchment. It did when i started the thread. am i missing something ?

if SWIMS working w/ 150ml of naptha , how long should he let it sit out before he adds it to the freezer? Mars tek is kinda opposite you put the naptha in freezer right away and leave it alone for 3 days than you pull the baking pan or whatever you used and pour the naptha through a filter.the crystals are suppose to stick to the pan but if any get poured out w/ the naptha ,the filter catches it.

hey...

smt=something

definitely evaporate some before sticking in the fridge.. I dont know about time, because how much evaporates will depend on air circulation, surface area and so on.. Just evap to maybe a third of original volume.. You cant go wrong by evaporating too much..

Just think about it.. (all the numbers I will give now are totally fictitional, just an example to illustrate) Lets say on room temperature, 150ml of nafta can hold 1.5g of dmt.. Now lets say you have 0.5 gram of DMT there that was pulled from the MHRB... And lets say in freezer temperature, 150ml of nafta can hold 0.2g of dmt.. So what would happen in this fictitional example, at freeze temperature, 0.3 will precipitate, and 0.2 will still be dissolved in the in the freeze-cold nafta. So nearly half of your DMT will not precipitate.. So lets say that, if you evap till 50ml, then it will be a saturated solution, and in freeze temperature, in this example, 50ml of naphta would only hold less than 0.1 of dmt, which means basically all your dmt will precipitate, so it will be efficient..

Now the thing is.. If, for example, say your 150ml of nafta have 0.6g dmt.. and you evap it down to 50ml, and in this example, this would only be enough nafta to hold 0.5g of dmt.. This means that 0.1 dmt will start ´precipitating´ even before you stick it in the fridge.. So, if you are using a different container to pre-evaporate than the one you´ll stick in the fridge, maybe a bit of dmt will start precipitating in it at some point, if you evap enough to super-saturate it... So, when you transfer the naphta to the container that will be put in the freezer, a little bit of dmt might be there in the pre-evap container.. It could be so spread out that you wont see it and you´ll loose a bit or something.. So, what you can do to prevent that (which is what SWIM did) is to pre-evap in the same container that will be put in the freezer.. In that case, you dont have to worry at all about pre-evapping too much, because in any case it will all be precipitated at some point in that same glass so you wont lose anything

and btw.. I do not recommend doing the last step of taking out of the fridge as you mentioned... Here´s why:

When you take the container out of the freezer, indeed most is stuck to the container sides or bottom, so the naphta wont have much.. And then in this way you mentioned, you pour the naphta out.. The problem is, there will be some of the naphta that will be trapped in between the crystals and so on.. So what happens is, when this little leftover naphta starts heating up due to room temperature, it starts dissolving the crystals again... This happened to SWIM a couple of times: Perfect looking crystals stuck to the side of the glass suddenly started dissapearing, being melted into an oily goo on the bottom that refused to evaporate and crystalize even after a long time.. Maybe this also has to do with water condensing on the inside of the cold glass and mixing with the leftover naphta/crystals, being responsible for a hard to evaporate goo..


So SWIM found out that, at least for him, the best way is to first prepare the filter, then take the container from the freezer and as quickly as possible scrape the crystals from the side/bottom of the glass.. Since the naphta will still be cold, all this scraped up crystals will be suspended in the naphta, floating on it but not being dissolved.. so THEN you pass the naphta through the filter and the crystals that were scraped will be on top of the filter.. then just open it up, spread the crystals and let it evap completely.. There will probably still be some crystals that werent properly scraped, stuck to the container, so now after the naphta is gone, scrape them (also quickly) and put them on top of the filter too, with the other crystals..

So thats the best way SWIM found.. each person has their own technique..

But if in any case you still want to make the first way, then remember to, after passing the naphta to the filter, dont leave the crystals standing in the glass waiting to finish evaping or something. Straight away after passing the naphta, scrape those stuck crystals and put them on top of a filter, because then they will properly evap and not form a goo

I use mason jars (1/2 pint) for freeze precipitation. It can be sealed with the lid, is very easy to work with, won't tip over (and if it does no problem) and I dont need a filter when I remove the naphtha. It can easily be poured out without a filter and be left in front of a fan without fear of the product blowing away. It is always a good idea to get the naphtha out of the jar/pan whatever as soon as possible after freeze precipitation. I've had a few batches melt away because I left too much naphtha in the jar....

Also, I almost never evap befor freezing. The only time I ever do this is on the last pull or if there are not many crystals after a night in the freezer. I always dump my naphtha from the mason jar back into the basified jug for another pull.

That's just the way I have found to work for me. As you can see, everyone has a different technique that works for them.

yeah thats the thing, if you put the naphta from freeze precip back into the basidified jug, even if there is some dmt in it, its going to get collected again after.. The good thing about freeze precip is specially for the last pull.. But personally, SWIM does it also even starting in the first pull, because SWIM has noticed that the dmt from the first pull is cleaner than the last pulls, so SWIM normally wants to get the most out of each pull because then SWIM has more of the cleaner ones..

but as acolon said, each person has their own technique.. you will find yours as you make it

thank you acolon and endlessness for your input.It's this kind of exchange of information that makes the world a better place.
Endlessness, i must say you made a lot of sense and you obviously know your stuff.It would seem to me that you would want to have a pretty good idea of how much dmt that can be pulled out of the mhrb and then adjust the NAFTA accordingly and do the pre evap accordingly.How would you best figure out or measure the amount of naptha you're evaporating.I would think a long flat baking pan would probably be best for evaporation because the liquid is spread out thin and evaporates better. Would you just "eyeball it" to figure how much is evaporating or do you kmow of a technique? Just to let you about SWIM. SWIM is just following an easy step by step from the marsfold tek (1st time).It seams to be efficient but if SWIM can make it better the second time around he'll be happy. He doesnt even know or understand how people get two or three pulls off of one batch.I guess thats SWIMS next lesson.
SWIM has a question for you endlessness.Lets Just say this first time round SWIM is not too concerned with efficiency of yields and doing everything he can do to make beautiful crystal. SWIM is eager to smoke and peak into that other realm. SWIM will improve his tek over time with experience and the help of people like you and acolon. What can SWIM do to get crystal out of his freezer asap? He had already put the baking tray in the freezer today before you blessed me with some pearls of wisdom and i couldn't relay the message quick enough, so he already has 150ml of nafta in freezer for about 3hrs and things are starting to take form already.How can SWIM speed up the process significantly even if it mmeans sacrificing some yield. 3 days in the freezer than another night at room temp. (SWIM wont get to smoke untill next week).He has more mhrb and more will be made with more time and care put into it.IS there a way to speed the process up that you know or that anyone knows of? SWIM would be happy

ok so... as for the evaporating, how to know when it has hit a certain mark (like, lets say, one third of initial volume), SWIM normally just eyeballs it.. As said before, if it evaporated a bit too much (or less) it doesnt matter much..

as for the ´two or three pulls´, what dont you understand? Its sort of simple: The dmt doesnt all go out in the first pull.. some still stays trapped there in the mimosa, or anyways its still in basidified liquid.. So, you just add some more new naphta to it, like another 150ml, and mix again for a few minutes and separate and just put this to another container, pre-evap too and into the fridge.. and then once more.. I dont know the exact numbers but if I had to guess, I would say maybe 65% of the total dmt comes in the first pull, then 20% in the second pull, then 15 or 10% in the third pull.. So unless you want to leave a third or smt of your dmt, then I suggest doing another pull.

About accelerating the speed of the process.. Well, here´s the thing.. A more saturated solution will make the crystals precipitate faster.. Another thing, specially for a saturated solution: Its not necessary to leave for 3 days in the freezer, basically everything will precipitate in a few hours (like overnight, for example)..

So, what I would personally suggest.. Take it out of the fridge, let it evaporate to about a third of original size (with a fan on top will accelerate greatly the process, but a fan might throw some dust on top so if you attach some thin cloth on top to prevent dust from falling, its the ideal).. This might take an hour or two (just a guess).. Then you put it back in the fridge (I hope you´re putting some sort of lid on top, or plastic wrap, because you dont want water falling into it in the freezer... ).. Just leave it overnight and tomorrow you will be able to smoke it

Tomorrow take out the naphta, pour it out and do as said before, leaving the crystals on top of a coffee filter.. Remember to be careful not letting wind or a pet animal throwing the crystals away.. So then just leave it on top of the coffee filter for some two hours or so, moving them once in a while to expose different parts of it to the air... they should be perfectly dry soon and you can def smoke them tomorrow already

Thanx for breaking things down for me. Your way of explaining makes it easy for me to visualize & understand.
On the topic of accelerating the process ; Instead of taking the goods out of the frig to let more naptha evaporate and then refreeze ; Could he just take it out and filter (your method) and use the excess naptha for the SECOND PULL (which now makes sense)
After about 12 hrs in the freezer (w/plastic wrap covering), Swim has some nice crystallization along the bottom and sides of the pan.Wouldn't it save some time to just scrape up them gems and just save the excess naptha , while the almost smokeable dmt is drying? Btw, should swim be wearing gloves when he scrapes? - because of the naptha What do you think of this possible plan of action? Also....If swim used 150ml of naptha on his first pull (250g of rb), how much naptha is needed for the second? The original mhrb solution still has a thin clear layer on top that swim couldn't get to w/out pulling the black/red juice so he left it.The original solution is sitting at room temp,is that cool? no pun. I know i have a lot of questions and i appreciate your tolerance and willingness to help.

Yes you can definitely do that of scraping and filtering (or the other method you mentioned too, no problem, just remember to quickly scrape the crystals and put on top of the filter) and then reusing the naphta for the second pull... This would save you time indeed

I would recommend using gloves.. Some people dont, and you wont die if you dont, but personally SWIM doesnt feel it´s a nice thing to put some petrochemical solvent in the skin, know what I mean? So if you can get some gloves (SWIM uses nitrile gloves he bought in a chemical shop but for quick job such as scraping, I guess just normal rubber gloves sold in the pharmacy are enough)

there is no special science behind the amount of naphta.. SWIM usually puts more, like 200 or 250ml, just because it makes it easier to separate, and if some is accidentally spilled (or if you cant get a part of it out without taking the black liquid, as you say), it doesnt matter so much because the more naphta you use, then proportionally the less dmt will be in that leftover.. But 150ml is fine too, specially if you are short on naphta..
What you could do is put back the naphta for another pull, and add another new 50ml or some whatever small amount if desired..

Im sure you understand this already but I´ll say it anyway just in case: remember to stir/softly mix the new naphta again in the basidified mix so it picks up the dmt, it´s not enough to just put it in..

Its no problem at all leaving the mix at room temperature

btw, if I might ask (maybe you said it already, dont remember), what kind of container is the mhrb mix in? Would it fit your arm passing through the top opening of it? (I´ll explain you why in the next post)

(and no worries about the helping... When I was learning it I very much appreciated when people helped me, so the least I can do is help others )

I believe swim is gonna start filtration process soon and will have smokeable dmt in a few hrs!! (first must have coffee and wake up). Once the crystals are on the filter to dry,should he just let them sit at room temp for a few hrs. periodically turning the crystals to expose them? This might be a stupid question but can he use his girlfriends blowdrier not holding it right over the crystals for maximum hot air but at a little distance to hep the crystals dry?
The mhrb solution is sitting in a 1.5 liter wine jug that only a glass turkey baster could love. Gonna have some coffee and start filtration and definately keep you posted. Thanx

dont know about the blowdrier.. wouldnt recommend it, neither anything too warm for that matter, as it might melt the crystals, making them get absorbed by the filter paper or whatever..

dont worry it will dry very quickly, no need for anything like that.. yes just periodically turning the crystals is enough

btw... the thing about the hand fitting was because SWIM found a technique to take most of the naphta was to submerge a glass under the naphta/basidified water, picking up mostly only naphta and a tiny bit of the basidified liquid.. then SWIM just pulled it out, and since the glass is thinner, it was then easier to separate the liquid more carefully with the pippete... but forget about that...

anyways, enough internet.. I go out a bit.. keep us posted and good luck

I've always worried about some of the crystals being reabsorbed my small amounts of naphtha and melting into the filter paper. I always just drain the naphtha off the crystals very carefully and wait for them to dry, occasinoally moving them around a bit.

DO NOT use a hairdryer...you will melt everything very quickly. These crystals will melt on a hot day much less under a hairdryer, the melting point is very low. A small fan or even hand fanning with paper will speed up the process but I wouldn't use any heat at all.

so, ... the filtration process is done!! I must say they are not exactly bight white a couple of brownish spots but i think they came out pretty well for swims first time.For some reason i don't have the option of attaching files otherwise i'd post the pics but what i will do is pm you guys and attach photos and you can tell me what you think. they are sitting in swims bathroom w/ door closed (swim has two cats and two dogs).The temperature is probably just over 70 degrees in his house. On an average, if swim periodically moves the crystals around, how long should it take to dry approximately? Also, swim has some ammonia in the frig incase he has to wash.He also has a digital scale so he can figure out the yield (he heard that if you do wash that you're not suppose to use more than 15ml of chilled ammonia per gram). I will send you guys the pics and you can tell me what you think.

I found the attach icon

After an hr. of sitting at room temp.,they have definately dried signifacantly but appears to be a little more brownish. To wash or not to wash? If decided to sample the goods w/out a wash, can that be harmful? Also since swim has never smoked before, he's not sure how to measure the amount to put in his pipe to blast off. He's heard that between 40 to 60 ml is a good starting point but he doesn't think his scale does that small of a measurement. There is also the train off thought that just believes in inhailing as much as possible w/in the first 30 seconds till you cant toke no more. He has a pipe w/ a glass chamber and he's gonna put two screens in (he heard that it can melt and run thru the screen and some say to put a little ash in the bowl). Does all this sound right? here's a couple more pics.