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joebono
#1 Posted : 8/8/2010 12:29:24 AM

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I finally quit. For good. DMT is a seductive and cruel bitch. It gives you imagined clarity and you think you know it all, but that's the trick. I’m a fucking fool. Trying to look for meaning in all that scrambled shit is insane. There is no fucking meaning to any of it. None. You can string together all the metaphors in the stream of conscious that it provides, but don't dare fool yourself that there is something there besides scrambling. God. Yeah, it plays with the most powerful concept that our brain can imagine. We think its touching divinity. It turns your brain into a slot machine and when you take it, you spin the wheels and some random combination of mental debris pulls your number. The strange synchronicities are all a deceitful and clever ploy to emphasize and reinforce the apparent magic of DMT, it all delusion, a faithful imitation of schizophrenia. Fuck that.


Oh, this is another fucking trick I realized that it plays. I can never remember my bad trips, I always forget them no matter how hard I try not to. It is only during the bad trip, a tour of my own personal hell that I remember the agony, torment, and torture. And I scream at myself, “Why can’t you ever remember this!!! You always forget!!!” That’s addiction folks, a selective amnesia where I can only see the euphoria and remember the highs of the rollercoaster and never the lows. No matter how horrifying my trips were, after I came down, I would still wish longingly for the high again. Does this stuff have the potential for real addiction? It’s fucking plutonium and the high is out of this world. For me, it is the most addictive experience I have ever encountered and I am glad to have it out of my life. It’s been a few weeks and I feel a clarity that I haven’t had in two years. And it’s not the phony DMT clarity that this drug likes to slip over the brain and disguise itself as enlightenment.

I guess I started DMT looking for answers to my existential despair and for a good time. In the end, it caused more pain than it was worth and provided no answers, just oddball questions and strange conjectures.


I flushed all my shit and threw away my supply of root bark, caapi extracts, shrooms, and cactus. It’s all gone and I am an all or nothing guy - there is no such thing as occasional use for me. Shit, I don’t drink or do any other drugs so I guess I need a new hobby. Any suggestions? Stay off drug forums?
 

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DoingKermit
#2 Posted : 8/8/2010 12:40:31 AM

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Sorry to hear your relationship with DMT has completely diminished, even if you aren't. I guess it just isn't for you... but are you sure you gained NOTHING from it? I wanted to almost cry when i read you threw out ALL your mind altering substances. Why not give them away to friends?

Just because you have given up DMT and such doesn't mean you have to leave the Nexus. I like you, Joe. and i like your posts.

As long as you are happy and content in your life, then its all good. As for the hobby suggestion... kite surfing is fucking awesome Smile



 
MooshyPeaches
#3 Posted : 8/8/2010 12:51:18 AM

?


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Sounds like you opened up a new chapter in your life =]

Are you going for sobriety now?


edit- didn't see that last sentence there.

Well going without any substances will be a interesting experience as well. If you gained absolutely NOTHING from the DMT experiences, at least it has brought you to the position of making this decision =]
 
joebono
#4 Posted : 8/8/2010 12:55:09 AM

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Hey Kermit, I don't have any friends that even know that I take drugs. There was nothing else do with it but flush the DMT and dump the bark. I never imagined I could do it. Am I sure I gained nothing? I had extreme euphoria and interesting experiences, but I feel that DMT just takes the idea of "significance", injects it with steroids and forces it upon whatever situation that you find yourself in. It amplifies and expands upon feelings and emotions but there is nothing there but the exageration. My epiphanies never stand up to the light of day when the carnival ends.
 
joebono
#5 Posted : 8/8/2010 12:57:03 AM

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MooshyPeaches wrote:
Sounds like you opened up a new chapter in your life =]

Are you going for sobriety now?


I have no choice. I really never like mescaline or shrooms much anyway. Oral DMT was all I ever did, so I am drug-free. And I am glad that I didn't find Jesus! That would have been a bitch.
 
mad_banshee
#6 Posted : 8/8/2010 1:30:44 AM

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joebono wrote:


I have no choice. I really never like mescaline or shrooms much anyway. Oral DMT was all I ever did, so I am drug-free. And I am glad that I didn't find Jesus! That would have been a bitch.


I guess spice just isn't for you. Oral spice is too much for me too, I only like short smoked sessions.
Spice may not be giving you what you want because you are looking for something that isn't there I think...wrong intent I would suggest.

For me, spice is a wonderful tool that I use to do exactly what you don't like, to open my mind. You might call it mind scrambling because the effect does dissolve the normal mind patterns, but I hope that is what people who use psychedelics expect. Addictive...no way, no more than coffee or candy.

I think you miss the point that opening the mind is a wonderful experience and it, in itself, is enlightenment. Enlightenment comes in many forms, and like someone told you, try kiteboarding...it too is an enlightening experience. Everyone has to choose. If you try kiteboarding, I hope you like it, but if you don't i hope you might hesitate in saying kiteboarding sucks and nobody has REAL fun kiteboarding because you don't like it.

Whatever you do, do what you think is best for yourself and enjoy life with whatever it is you choose my friend!

Peace

Mad Banshee

Note that the poster of this message would never actually use or recommend to use illegal substances. He is just an attention seeker and should be considered to be lying about everything he posts and his posts are only for the sake of generating discussion.
 
Crystalito
#7 Posted : 8/8/2010 1:36:35 AM
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Joebono, whats was the event that made you arrive to this conclusion? I mean that quite propably a series of events lead to it, but what was the "catalytic" event, or the "last straw" if you preffer? Sounds like you might had an experience with it recently.

As far as "meaning" goes , i do not know what people expect as "meaning" from such experiences. Some "cosmic equation" to be downloaded into one's head? Some kind of "answer to all questions"?

Hmm personally i think the meaning lies in the altered view it can equip one with. Most work is done outside of its influence, and of course a very good idea is to reality check "meaning" and "enlightments" one has had under its influence. In my book, such a relationship can sincerely be built if one does not have too much contact with any substance really, the time spent off is as important as the time spent in. One can be addicted surely, one can get used to the altered state, i choose not to.
 
Apoc
#8 Posted : 8/8/2010 1:40:02 AM

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joebono wrote:
I finally quit. For good. DMT is a seductive and cruel bitch. It gives you imagined clarity and you think you know it all, but that's the trick. I’m a fucking fool. Trying to look for meaning in all that scrambled shit is insane. There is no fucking meaning to any of it. None. You can string together all the metaphors in the stream of conscious that it provides, but don't dare fool yourself that there is something there besides scrambling. God. Yeah, it plays with the most powerful concept that our brain can imagine. We think its touching divinity. It turns your brain into a slot machine and when you take it, you spin the wheels and some random combination of mental debris pulls your number. The strange synchronicities are all a deceitful and clever ploy to emphasize and reinforce the apparent magic of DMT, it all delusion, a faithful imitation of schizophrenia. Fuck that.


What was that you said about >DMT< tricking you in to thinking you know everything? Well, anyway, good luck. If you don't like dmt, I wouldn't take it if I were you. I personally wouldn't say that exploring the depths of your own consciousness is useless, or a "trick" any more than any type of learning is useless, or a trick. Afterall, anything you see in this whole world is your consciousness, That's a fact, it can't be any other way. Personally, I see life as an adventure.... I don't go looking to dmt or anything for that matter, for permanent answers to anything. I've found dmt to be more of a lovely Goddess, not a deceitful bitch as you say. I'm just saying.... each is entitled to their own point of view.

Interesting you say you forget your bad trips. I have found I have a harder time remembering the good parts. The bad parts are easy to remember because they are so intense. Nor have I found dmt to be addictive, as it seems to have a natural addiction counter. I find if I take too much, it just gives me a bad trip and I don't want to take it anymore.

joebono wrote:
I guess I started DMT looking for answers to my existential despair and for a good time. In the end, it caused more pain than it was worth and provided no answers, just oddball questions and strange conjectures.


If you're looking for permanent answers, you may be disturbed to find you won't find them anywhere.
 
Crystalito
#9 Posted : 8/8/2010 1:47:56 AM
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Personally whenever i see posts like JoeBono's i find it healthy to question approach to psychedelics: WHY one does it? WHAT would take him/her to distance himself/hereself from them? WHAT can be learned from them? HOW can one avoid pitfalls of "significance where there is none"?

I find it a rather healthy approach, given that humans might just follow or cling on the euphoric or simply the interesting and then fill in the intellectual details that somehow excuse/backup the method.

Interesting alltogether. I wonder if any people will feel "offended" or trying to "defend" DMT somehow.I view it also from the social (interaction) experiment point of view. On one hand its easy to speak in favor of DMT here or in favor of psychedelics or psychoactives in a "drug oriented" forum, after all people must find something in those substances to try them and keep using them ,right? On the other hand, one might wonder if indeed continuous use has any meaning apart from being very very interesting substances and excluding first/second/third use when one first "deflowers" himself/herself to some meanings that can be considered "commonplace" for those familiar with the psychedelic experience.
 
joebono
#10 Posted : 8/8/2010 2:06:03 AM

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Crystalito wrote:
Joebono, whats was the event that made you arrive to this conclusion? I mean that quite propably a series of events lead to it, but what was the "catalytic" event, or the "last straw" if you preffer?



I started thinking deeply about my last few bad trips and realized that I was blocking out the absolute horror of DMT. I had a voice recorder and when I played it back, I was ranting and raving about how this always happens and I never remember and that I would forget the whole hellish experience. This scared me, it was as if my mind was operating in some stealth mode to hide the bullshit and keep the desire for the high alive. There is nothing benign about that type of mind betrayal.

Then I started to examine its impact on my sober thought processes. I now do weird shit like imagine the opposite of everything that I think about. Since I need to function in normal reality to make a living, I noticed that I was losing touch a bit. Sure its fun to alter the patterns of your mind for innovative ideas, but I started to cross the line into reclusive oddball motherfucker and it was difficult to disguise it. My loved ones who were tolerant and surprisingly open-minded about my drug use began to notice the schizoid shit while I was sober.

See, I don't see it as an exploration of my consciousness because that would mean there was some sort of structure or meaning somewhere in the tornado. I can't make a shred of sense out of the jigsaw puzzle. I view DMT the same way I view religion, patriotism, politics, and the news - it's bullshit. For two years, it had an elevated status in my mind but its been demoted.




 
jamie
#11 Posted : 8/8/2010 2:34:04 AM

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"I finally quit. For good. DMT is a seductive and cruel bitch. It gives you imagined clarity and you think you know it all, but that's the trick"

Hyperspace is a mirror... .. .your just seeing whats in it..dont blame the mirror when you dont like what you see. You also dont worship the mirror..it's just a mirror.

"if you're worried if you're loved, you need therapy..if you're ready to be light even though everyone hates you, you're ready for yoga"
- David Deida
 
joebono
#12 Posted : 8/8/2010 2:35:10 AM

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Changa was another problem. I tripped once a week on oral DMT, but the introduction of changa into my life added another layer of obsession. It was always right there, ready to propel me in at a moments notice and the sub-breakthrough doses were also intensely euphoric and I started smoking that during the week - something I said I would never do. Sound familiar? I think it's an old story. It turned into a fetish, an all consuming desire for me. I'd say I loved DMT as much the junkie loves his heroin or the fiend his crack. Addiction is addiction. Obsessive thoughts 24/7. I dumped 15kg. I was stockpiled for life. The businessman's drug because he can do it on his lunch break? That was me. Anyway, I'm looking into kiteboarding.
 
jamie
#13 Posted : 8/8/2010 2:39:58 AM

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I dunno how kiteoarding will change anything...i like to smoke DMT and I go skimboard nearly every single day..DMT never stopped me from doing the things I like to do. It's nice to have something to do that you enjoy..but its not like DMT took over my life and made me incapable of enjoying other things..i feel dead inside when im away from the ocean for too long.

"if you're worried if you're loved, you need therapy..if you're ready to be light even though everyone hates you, you're ready for yoga"
- David Deida
 
clouds
#14 Posted : 8/8/2010 2:42:27 AM

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"Neurosis is the inability to tolerate ambiguity." - Sigmund Freud
 
Spira
#15 Posted : 8/8/2010 2:45:44 AM

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Very interesting topic. I have the same problem you have remembering my bad trips, a couple of days later I always find myself wanting to smoke more. Sometimes in the middle of a bad trip I can't even remember why I decided to smoke in the first place, which is why I understand when you call DMT a "seductive and cruel bitch." It's also very interesting that you say you got nothing out of DMT. I just finished reading Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule and what I would call one of the people that knows most about DMT confesses his fear that DMT is not beneficial in the long term. On the one hand, as you can see, I am very sympathetic with you. However, consider this: Was DMT ever a long term commitment?

Do you mind sharing more of the "schizoid shit"? Also, can we expect (or is it reasonable to expect) to remain the same with long term DMT usage?
"It made me do it."



I am not real.

 
Spira
#16 Posted : 8/8/2010 2:50:10 AM

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joebono wrote:
Changa was another problem. I tripped once a week on oral DMT, but the introduction of changa into my life added another layer of obsession. It was always right there, ready to propel me in at a moments notice and the sub-breakthrough doses were also intensely euphoric and I started smoking that during the week - something I said I would never do. Sound familiar? I think it's an old story. It turned into a fetish, an all consuming desire for me. I'd say I loved DMT as much the junkie loves his heroin or the fiend his crack. Addiction is addiction. Obsessive thoughts 24/7. I dumped 15kg. I was stockpiled for life. The businessman's drug because he can do it on his lunch break? That was me. Anyway, I'm looking into kiteboarding.


As mentioned here before, you're bound to have bad trips if you're doing DMT often. Even once a week is pushing it. Don't take this personally please, but don't blame the drug. It's up to us to use it appropriately.

As far as hobbies go, do you do Yoga? What about drawing or painting? Smile
"It made me do it."



I am not real.

 
Crystalito
#17 Posted : 8/8/2010 2:56:17 AM
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Joebono, this is not intented to "counter" anything you say (since i do not feel i have any vested interests, just learning) but : MIleages may vary but i consider once a week very frequent, plus add the changa in and...without realising it you are having once a week a powerful psychoactive that in some cases even one use can has a HUGE impact on someone. Of course, people might become bodily/psychologicaly "tolerant" to it so as the impact might feel dampened. Thing is , such a use might affect someone greatly and not notice until others will start noticing as well and usually this is not because of "change for the better". Hmm once a week...that would make a month in such a schedule ,4 years in my schedule (although i dont have contact with psychedelics scheduled, meaning as if its an appointment i must not miss but i take care to not approach them often).

Hmmm who knows what such frequent contact might do. Others here might use as a counterargument vegetalistas or santo daime (i think they use it often), but i do not know if frequent use is such a good idea generally.

Anyway it would be good indeed if you have some time off, to also clear more your thoughts.It must be a rather emotionally charged period,i wonder how you could summarise your whole forray into psychedelics a year after from today.
 
jamie
#18 Posted : 8/8/2010 3:20:02 AM

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Im not trying to piss you off here..but when I read your report I keep getting the feeling that you are being somewhat delusional, projecting aspects of humans(or aspects of yourself you dont want to deal with) onto DMT, a chemical alkaloid..and not in a metaphorical, poetic way.

"I'd say I loved DMT as much the junkie loves his heroin or the fiend his crack. Addiction is addiction. Obsessive thoughts 24/7. I dumped 15kg. I was stockpiled for life. The businessman's drug because he can do it on his lunch break? That was me. Anyway"

And here you personify DMT

"DMT is a seductive and cruel bitch. It gives you imagined clarity and you think you know it all, but that's the trick"

Is DMT really a seductive cruel bitch?

Does it really give you imagined clarity?

DO you really end up thinking you know it all?..does it really try to trick one?

Lets look at this a bit closer for a moment.

"Trying to look for meaning in all that scrambled shit is insane. There is no fucking meaning to any of it."

"I guess I started DMT looking for answers to my existential despair and for a good time. In the end, it caused more pain than it was worth and provided no answers, just oddball questions and strange conjectures."

So here it becomes a bit more clear as to what you were expecting of DMT..You wanted it to answer questions for you..and to give you a good time(DMT is not a female escort BTW)..And you sound quite angry, almost rejected by the fact that there were no ultimat answers and you you couldnt distill any meaning from the metaphores it provides..

Let me ask you this..do you feel the same way about poetry?? Do you appraoch poetry with questions you desperatily want answers to?..Do you read it in seach of some ultimate truth?..

You then call DMT a "seductive and cruel bitch"..accuse it of providing "inagined clarity"..blame it for your attitude of a "know it all" and claimed it "tricked you"..

But did DMT really do any of these things?

Or, is this all simply a projection of your ego towards DMT in relation to your approach towards DMT?

How useful is it in the end to place blame on a chemical like DMT, accusing it of behaviour associated with human attributes?

Like I said..DMT is a mirror. What one sees when they peer into that mirror is a personal reflection, a reflection only relative to the one peering in. And how they deal with that reflection is up to them.

It might do you some good psychologically to give up the whole blame DMT bit, and instead use all this as a way to reflect upon your own projections and possibly learn something about yourself and grow, weather or not you ever smoke DMT again.

"can never remember my bad trips, I always forget them no matter how hard I try not to. It is only during the bad trip, a tour of my own personal hell that I remember the agony, torment, and torture"






"if you're worried if you're loved, you need therapy..if you're ready to be light even though everyone hates you, you're ready for yoga"
- David Deida
 
joebono
#19 Posted : 8/8/2010 3:37:27 AM

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You're right Fractal, it's a chemical and I am using metaphors to describe it. I think that many of us feel that psychedelics have the potential for enlightenment and I had hopes that it could deliver something meaningful to my life. Unfortunately, in my experience, it failed at that. I don't believe in ultimate truth and I have given up searching. I reject the idea that DMT is a mirror because that would give it structure and form, it's roll of the dice, a mixer and a blender, a chemical that confuses while giving a sense of unity to the pandemonium. I think the experience is meaningless and absurd.

And I am angry that I was sucked into this. I feel like a fool, an idiot that I was so blind to it and that I bullshitted myself for two years. It just seems clear to me now. I elevated DMT above all other drugs and gave psychedelics a special status. It's a powerful and habit-forming drug and I refused to realize that until a few weeks ago.
 
mogascreeta
#20 Posted : 8/8/2010 3:53:06 AM

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joebono wrote:
MooshyPeaches wrote:
Sounds like you opened up a new chapter in your life =]

Are you going for sobriety now?


I have no choice. I really never like mescaline or shrooms much anyway. Oral DMT was all I ever did, so I am drug-free. And I am glad that I didn't find Jesus! That would have been a bitch.


Is it possible that DMT represents something different for everyone? Is it possible that to you DMT is just another drug to do--one that you just dont like? Maybe DMT is a bitch to you, but that doesnt mean DMT is a bitch. I am taking an extended hiatus from DMT myself but for a polar opposite reason. DMT has provided me with a reason to be a better person. DMT can be just a drug, or a tool for life improvement, or a bridge between spirual realms, or in your case- a toilet bowl cleaner Wink.

The way I see it, everyone can gain something from just about everything, but sometimes people shut out things they dont like and refuse anything that comes from those things simply because they dont like those things.

"To dwell on the past robs the present, but to forget the past robs the future"

IMO trying to replace DMT with a hobby is a fruitless effort. However, taking on a new hobby can be a very rewarding and enlightening experience.

I wish you the best of luck for the rest of your life, and truly hope that you will one day be able to reflect on ALL of your major life experiences and gain something usefull from it.
"I'm creeping back to life, my nervous system all awry, I'm wearing the inside out. Look at him now, he's paler somehow, but he's coming round. He's starting to choke It's been so long since he spoke, well he can have the words right from my mouth. And with these words I can see, clear through the clouds that covered me, Just give it time then speak my name. now we can hear ourselves again" Pink Floyd- Wearing the Inside Out
Mogascreeta is a pathological liar and should not be taken seriously under any circumstance.
 
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