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Don't evaporate your solvents - Avoid grossness in your spice! Options
 
q21q21
#1 Posted : 7/15/2010 7:35:19 AM

SWIM


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There are 2 main scenarios when solvents are evaporated when they shouldn't be:


1: Evaporating naptha/heptane which has been used to pull DMT from MHRB as an alternative to freezer precipitation
2: Evaporating d-limonene/xylene/toluene which has been used to pull jungle or full-alkaloid DMT


Note: Evaporating acetone or IPA that has dissolved clean DMT (or other clean alkaloids) on an herb or whatever is fine as long as the solvent has been tested to evaporate without a trace.

Warning:
Evaporating solvent to leave DMT is never a good idea unless it is a recrystallization of freezer precipitated DMT and even then there can be some nasties in the pan so be wary of that.

When naptha or heptane are used on MHRB then is is always wise to freezer precipitate over evaporation, there is a chance it leave contaminants in your DMT
When d-limonene/xylene/toluene are used on MHRB it is best to salt the DMT out, whether this is with FASA or vinegar it doesn't matter, just don't evaporate it or else there will be some nasty non-DMT residue in your product.

Also evaporating is a waste of the solvent. In most cases the solvent can be re-used over and over with little effect on it's ability to dissolve DMT.



The experiments behind the warning:

SWIM has worked a lot with DMT and vinegar and while he can't cite purity due to a lack of lab equipment.
He can state that every substance that he has dissolved from high-PH MHRB with a non-polar solvent that is soluble in vinegar can be smoked and produce very strong effects when smoked.
30mg of the product giving him and everyone who has tried it strong visions and a sense of no longer being in this world for 2-5 minutes and a 15-20 minute buzz afterwards.

So in short, if it is dissolved from basified MHRB in a non-polar solvent and is soluble in a vinegar then it should be nearly pure DMT.

The simplest way to dissolved something in vinegar from a non-polar solvent is by salting it out.
This is done by mixing the 2 together and agitating them then separate the vinegar. This causes the non-polar solvent to cloud with DMT-acetate and is repeated with more vinegar until the non-polar solvent becomes clear like it started.

But when this is done with the solvent the solvent will retain a yellow color even after the salting is complete.


There were 2 possibilities that came to mind:

1: Vinegar does not salt out all the DMT from the solvent
2: There is something other than DMT that dissolved in the solvent that is either not an alkaloid or an alkaloid whose acetate salt is not water soluble.



There are 3 tests SWIM did to try to answer the questions

TEST 1: Evaporation of vinegar-salted d-limonene

Step 1: d-limonene was salted with vinegar
Yield: 563mg full-alkaloid DMT when evaporated

Step 2: d-limonene was then evaporated
Yield: lots of orange non-vinegar-soluble gunk

It was very lemony smelling and is non-psychoactive

There was no DMT in the evaporated product, though there may have been some stuck in the nasty gunk, there was not enough to give any effect from smoking it.
This test showed that salting d-limonene with vinegar gets most or all of the DMT out negating any need to evaporated.


TEST 2: Salting then evaporating naptha after freezer precipitation

Step 1: Freezer precipitate 75ml naptha. The 4th re-used pull from 200g of MHRB. It had already precipitated 850mg previously.
Yield: 256mg white crystal DMT

Step 2: Salting out the un-precipitated alkaloids from the yellow naptha with vinegar
Yield: 30mg jungle DMT

Step 3: Evaporating the still-yellow naptha
Yield: 11mg jungle DMT and a residue of non-vinegar soluble goo that popped when under a flame.

This test probably would have been better without the freezer precipitation, though it did show that salting got most of the DMT out.
But much more importantly it showed that SWIM's naptha left a non-DMT residue that he definately did not want to smoke.

Test 3: Salting then evaporating xylene
The xylene was used on 2 batches of 200g MHRB and had nearly 4 grams of DMT salted out of it.

Step 1: Salting 450ml of xylene with vinegar (the 8th pull on 200g of MHRB)
Yield: 245mg full-alkaloid DMT

Step 2: Evaporating the xylene
Yield 787mg of non-vinegar-soluble weird smelling junk

You couldn't pay SWIM to smoke that shit!

So this test showed that the vinegar salted out most if not all of the DMT.
More importantly it showed that evaporating xylene leaves a nasty goo (maybe plant fats?) and no salvagable about of DMT

Conclusion:
Evaporating solvent to leave DMT is never a good idea unless it is a recrystallization of freezer precipitated DMT and even then there can be some nasties in the pan.
When naptha or heptane are used on MHRB then is is always wise to freezer precipitate over evaporation.
When d-limonene/xylene/toluene are used on MHRB it is best to salt the DMT out, whether this is with FASA or vinegar it doesn't matter, just don't evaporate it.

Also evaporating is a waste of the solvent. In most cases the solvent can be re-used over and over with little effect on it's ability to dissolve DMT.
Q21Q21's Tek: A comprehensive guide to extracting DMT
The 2 teks use non-toxic lime and vinegar and Tek 1: d-Limonene or Xylene or Tek 2: Naptha to produce very quick high yields with the greatest of ease.

I am almost never on this site anymore so I will likely not answer PMs

 

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KwisatzHaderach
#2 Posted : 7/15/2010 9:14:13 AM

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Good stuff man. Way to keep the community informed. Knowledge is power.

thankyou
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L_Star
#3 Posted : 7/15/2010 9:56:36 AM

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Good work. Freezing is coooooool Smile Always recommend, and naptha works So well, shame its petrolchemical.

Much respect to all from L_Star

Disclaimer: EVERYTHING posted by L_Star is said from the following persons: SWIM. All are hypothetical posts and are not endorsements of any activities, beliefs, and practices stated, that may be correlated with the person stated, or another person posting, or third party user, in anyway on dmt-nexus.com. All that is said is for educational purposes and as said is "hypothetical" and therefore cannot be taken for true accounts. SWIM and L_Star abide by the Law in all practices. SWIM would like reader to note that SWIM is blind, and L_Star is a typing assistant voluntering for SWIM. L_Star is bound by legal legislation for customer privacy by Data Protection Act, therefore SWIM will not be identified.

Regards L_Star
 
Dimitrius
#4 Posted : 7/15/2010 1:21:03 PM

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This is good information Q21. Thanks for the contribution.

p.s. - I love this forum.
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DoingKermit
#5 Posted : 7/15/2010 2:16:20 PM

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Great stuff! I all ways found evaporating naphtha a waste of time, as the end product is all ways less pure when compared to freezing. Thanks for the info Smile
 
soulfood
#6 Posted : 7/15/2010 2:18:51 PM

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I find naphtha to be a waste of time altogether these days.
 
cli_hlt
#7 Posted : 7/16/2010 4:02:30 PM

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Evaporating hydrocarbon solvents also harm the environment, and it is expensive.

It would be great to find a way to clean the remaining solvents after freeze precipitation. A hate dumping things not only because I hate to waste money, but I also don't like naphta being released into the environment.

So, how grease / oil and stuff could be removed from the solvent?

Of course distillation would work perfectly, but it is inherently dangerous and difficult to do in your kitchen Pleased
 
q21q21
#8 Posted : 7/16/2010 4:14:38 PM

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cli_hlt wrote:
Evaporating hydrocarbon solvents also harm the environment, and it is expensive.

It would be great to find a way to clean the remaining solvents after freeze precipitation. A hate dumping things not only because I hate to waste money, but I also don't like naphta being released into the environment.

So, how grease / oil and stuff could be removed from the solvent?

Of course distillation would work perfectly, but it is inherently dangerous and difficult to do in your kitchen Pleased


There isn't really too much need to remove the oils since freezer precipitation is a defatting step in itself.

Also with d-limonene and xylene, SWIM has notices no measurable difference in the solubility of DMT on the first pull (little yellow discoloration) and the 3rd, 5th or 8th pull (lots of discoloration)
The test was 60ml of d-limonene salted with vinegar after soaking for an our, each of the 4 soakings salting yielded between 120 and 140mg of full-alkaloid DMT.

So really just keep re-using the solvent, the fats/gunk don't precipitate out or salt out.

Cheers!
Q21Q21's Tek: A comprehensive guide to extracting DMT
The 2 teks use non-toxic lime and vinegar and Tek 1: d-Limonene or Xylene or Tek 2: Naptha to produce very quick high yields with the greatest of ease.

I am almost never on this site anymore so I will likely not answer PMs

 
Big Inhale
#9 Posted : 7/16/2010 11:58:33 PM

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cli_hlt wrote:
I also don't like naphta being released into the environment.

Well where do you think it comes from? Naptha is a naturally occurring substance
Can you Imagine? From one single Idea everything appeared here.
RZA

Here in the Prime Creators universe all things are possible,because all things are possible many lessons are learned.

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cli_hlt
#10 Posted : 7/20/2010 7:38:59 AM

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Quote:
Well where do you think it comes from? Naptha is a naturally occurring substance


Very happy That is absolutely true. However...
 
dooby
#11 Posted : 11/15/2013 11:41:37 AM

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Bump...

I was making a thread about this and while doing so I wanted to confirm something at which point I found this thread - which for some reason is not a "Sticky"...

Perhaps nowadays nobody uses naphtha anymore, or everybody uses fumaric acid, I for one use naphtha and don't have/need fumaric as I am perfectly happy with vinegar-salting...

PLUR
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alert
#12 Posted : 11/15/2013 2:57:21 PM
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dooby wrote:

Perhaps nowadays nobody uses naphtha anymore,


It is probably the most commonly used solvent for these things.


 
dooby
#13 Posted : 11/15/2013 3:13:49 PM

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In that case I believe my bump to be fully justified Pleased
My avatar was taken from google images and is actually a work of art by NEIL GIBSON, credit where credit is due!


Bodies don't have souls - souls have bodies


Old enough to know better, young enough to try again
 
Infundibulum
#14 Posted : 11/15/2013 3:18:11 PM

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Naphtha is indeed the most solvent used. As for evaporating solvent, there is really no need to do that at all. As I have argued here, there is no need whatsoever to discard/evaporate your NP solvent and that a solvent can be used practically for ever.


Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
starway6
#15 Posted : 11/15/2013 5:05:02 PM

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I agree freeze precipitation is an easy way to get clean spice..[with mimosa]using straight to base method..

But [Freeze percip].. [if your using acacia confusa]..is not nesesary to get clean crystals..
I found that with [acacia].. [freeze percip] pulls too much wax and oils and the crystals that develope can quickly melt once out of freezer..
Just take your dmt rich napatha and make the dmt content richer ..[if nessasery]..by reduceing napatha volume as much as posible [by evaportaion] to cause an even richer dmt content in the napatha...
Then let the napatha rich solvent sit at room temp ..[or a little cooler than room temp].. over night for 15 plus hours and in morning the napatha will be clear and the dmt crystals should be stuck the walls and bottom of extraction dish...
Then pour out the napatha into clean jar and turn evaporation dish upside down [proped up a little for air circulation]..on large plate ..[in front of fan]..alowing all remaining napatha to run down away from and off the crystals and crystals should dry quickly..
I have found this way effective in getting nice clean white crystals ..without freezing..
[at a warmer temp].
I have also buried the napatha in sealed jar overnight in ice for great results..
I used thick lights good AB Tec with this method..
starway6 attached the following image(s):
DSC07793.JPG (3,244kb) downloaded 920 time(s).
 
alert
#16 Posted : 11/15/2013 5:19:32 PM
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Quote:
Just take your dmt rich napatha and make the dmt content richer ..[if nessasery]..by reduceing napatha volume as much as posible [by evaportaion] to cause an even richer dmt content in the napatha...


Sometimes people definitely need to evaporate their solvent a bit to get it saturated enough to do a freeze precipitation, or to use the method you used to let the overly saturated naphtha drop the crystals at room temperature. Some people use way to much solvent and it needs to be evaporated by 1/2 or more before it can be freeze precipitated. A good rule of thumb is to allow it to be cloudy at room temperature, or at the very least clear at room temperature but it gets cloudy when you blow on it.

What OP is concerned about is letting your solvent evaporate 100% to get the goodies out of the solution possibly leaving contaminates behind.


 
dreamer042
#17 Posted : 11/15/2013 5:37:38 PM

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Big Inhale wrote:
Well where do you think it comes from? Naptha is a naturally occurring substance


Not so much, oil is a naturally occurring substance, that oil is then refined and distilled to yield naphtha. You aren't going to find any naphtha deposits naturally occurring in the environment. Wink
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starway6
#18 Posted : 11/16/2013 5:22:30 PM

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Infundibulum wrote:
Naphtha is indeed the most solvent used. As for evaporating solvent, there is really no need to do that at all. As I have argued here, there is no need whatsoever to discard/evaporate your NP solvent and that a solvent can be used practically for ever.



This makes me wonder?....Wut?
The photo i posted above was acacia DMT crystals [i asume?...
They look just like [nn dmt crystals].. but may be a blend of ..[two kinds of dmt?
They look clean and fairly pure and ere very active...
But if I was to have totaly evaporated ..[that same napatha].. instead of using the method i spoke of.. letting it sit for 15 hours at 50 degrees geting crystals..
I know I know the results would have been mostly goo maybe a few soggy crystals..

I seems that the crystalizing process should reject and seperate most of the waxes and oils leaving them .[behind in the napatha]??.. that I pour out.. and away from the crystals..
[again a theory]Wink

So yes.. I agree that napatha can be re used.. but It may contain waxes and oils from previous extractions??

If the natural seperation of waxes and oils ..doesnt occure durring crystalization..then that means that my nice white pure looking crystals arent so pure and are instead crystals of pure spectrum goo???? IS THIS EVEN POSIBLE??
Anyone with more chemistry background is ver welcome to coment on this question!.....
 
alert
#19 Posted : 11/16/2013 7:13:13 PM
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Quote:
If the natural seperation of waxes and oils ..doesnt occure durring crystalization..then that means that my nice white pure looking crystals arent so pure and are instead crystals of pure spectrum goo???? IS THIS EVEN POSIBLE??


They are likely crystals of full spectrum goo. When I freeze precipitate confusa I get pretty white crystals that look just like that, they just melt at room temperature. There is no reason to think that full spectrum goo isn't very pure as well, it just doesn't like to stay solid sometimes. Someone posted a picture of some oil they got from an acacia extraction (not confusa) and they yielded a very dark oily substance. When tested, it was something like 92% DMT, so you can't judge a book by it's cover. Then again I don't know how you are using the word purity... the crystals you have likely aren't nearly pure DMT, however they probably a mixture of relatively pure DMT/NMT mix.

Quote:
So yes.. I agree that napatha can be re used.. but It may contain waxes and oils from previous extractions??


This was discussed in the thread that you linked to. Basically, yes. A solvent can absorb different things though, so even if you old solvent is completely saturated with various plant oils that doesn't mean it still can't pull DMT.

To clarify, think of water. You can saturate water with so much salt that it cannot absorb anymore. However, even though it can dissolve any more salt it can easily dissolve another solute such as lye.
 
misterpip
#20 Posted : 11/23/2013 5:10:34 PM

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Uh!
Massive recrystalizations on the cards at this end then Surprised

Actually Nexians, could anyone provide me with some advice on how to proceed from the point I'm at, which is:

I've a bunch of Spice that has been harvested from just evaporating the naphtha, & now I'm reallllllllly spooked about trying it out.
Any help is super appreciated.
 
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