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2nd Metabolism to produce LSD in Plants? Is it possible??? Options
 
Entropymancer
#21 Posted : 5/26/2008 12:24:15 AM

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No, it's not. Stereochemsitry is pretty critical to functionality for virtually everything.
 

Live plants. Sustainable, ethically sourced, native American owned.
 
imachavel
#22 Posted : 5/26/2008 11:23:27 AM
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what do you mean when you say no it's not? not it's not active? or no, it's not rare to find the steroisomer and the exact molecule of something?

I thought I read that all the steroisomers of lsd are active, but not at the same dose or exact psychoactive effect that lsd is.

is it normal to find stereoisomers of chemicals like vitamins or amino acids or whatever has a steroisomer in plants?

or when you say not it's not do you mean no it's not crazy that it's inactive? but still, what do you mean when you say the stereochemistry is pretty critical to functionality of virtually everything.
 
imachavel
#23 Posted : 5/26/2008 11:24:48 AM
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I'm still questioning if you could alter a plants dna by doing that technique where you take a few cells, put them in a culture, and grow an entirely new plant from it, there isn't radical dna mutation from that?
 
imachavel
#24 Posted : 5/26/2008 11:34:11 AM
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I thought an isomer was more rare than the molecule it was found to be an isomer, hence the name isomer(being that the stable molecule was not an isomer, since it's popularity determined it's stability)
 
Entropymancer
#25 Posted : 5/26/2008 3:40:57 PM

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Imachavel, most of your questions can be answered by a quick search of google and wikipedia. Asking questions with substance makes for a more informative thread.

You said "wow, that's crazy huh?" when told iso-LSD was inactive. I'm saying no, that's not crazy. Stereochemistry is critical to function. Take carvone for example. S-(+)-carvone smells like caraway; R-(-)-carvone smells like spearmint.

When you're talking about something as bulky as LSD fitting into a receptors site, stereochemistry is absolutely critical. If this doesn't make sense, then wikipedia "stereochemistry". Think about trying to fit your right hand in a lefthanded glove.

Quote:
I thought I read that all the steroisomers of lsd are active, but not at the same dose or exact psychoactive effect that lsd is.

What gave you that idea?

Quote:
is it normal to find stereoisomers of chemicals like vitamins or amino acids or whatever has a steroisomer in plants?


Except in certain contexts where the peptide has been chemically modified, you'll never find a d-amino acid in nature; due to the nature of enzyme active sites, virtually all natural products are produced unerringly in their correct stereochemical form. It's concievable there are cases where a single plant makes multiple stereoisomers of a compound, but to do so would require seperate synthase enzymes.


Quote:
I thought an isomer was more rare than the molecule it was found to be an isomer, hence the name isomer(being that the stable molecule was not an isomer, since it's popularity determined it's stability)


No. They're both isomers of each other. There isn't the stable non-isomer and a less stable isomer. It might help if you look up basic vocab before asking a question.

 
benzyme
#26 Posted : 5/26/2008 4:15:23 PM

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imachavel wrote:

I thought an isomer was more rare than the molecule it was found to be an isomer, hence the name isomer(being that the stable molecule was not an isomer, since it's popularity determined it's stability)


you're thinking of isotope.

isomers are molecules which have different spacial molecular configuration, as opposed to linear molecules which typically have one configuration. they do not decay.

receptors recognize certain configurations and ignore others (thank goodness for that).
it's like trying to fit cubes through a hole designed to accept pyramids
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
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benzyme
#27 Posted : 5/26/2008 4:18:31 PM

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imachavel wrote:

I'm still questioning if you could alter a plants dna by doing that technique where you take a few cells, put them in a culture, and grow an entirely new plant from it, there isn't radical dna mutation from that?


no, that's cloning

a radical dna mutation be introducing a new gene via transformation.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
imachavel
#28 Posted : 5/27/2008 10:29:04 AM
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Entropymancer wrote:
Imachavel, most of your questions can be answered by a quick search of google and wikipedia. Asking questions with substance makes for a more informative thread.

You said "wow, that's crazy huh?" when told iso-LSD was inactive. I'm saying no, that's not crazy. Stereochemistry is critical to function. Take carvone for example. S-(+)-carvone smells like caraway; R-(-)-carvone smells like spearmint.

When you're talking about something as bulky as LSD fitting into a receptors site, stereochemistry is absolutely critical. If this doesn't make sense, then wikipedia "stereochemistry". Think about trying to fit your right hand in a lefthanded glove.

Quote:
I thought I read that all the steroisomers of lsd are active, but not at the same dose or exact psychoactive effect that lsd is.

What gave you that idea?

Quote:
is it normal to find stereoisomers of chemicals like vitamins or amino acids or whatever has a steroisomer in plants?


Except in certain contexts where the peptide has been chemically modified, you'll never find a d-amino acid in nature; due to the nature of enzyme active sites, virtually all natural products are produced unerringly in their correct stereochemical form. It's concievable there are cases where a single plant makes multiple stereoisomers of a compound, but to do so would require seperate synthase enzymes.


Quote:
I thought an isomer was more rare than the molecule it was found to be an isomer, hence the name isomer(being that the stable molecule was not an isomer, since it's popularity determined it's stability)


No. They're both isomers of each other. There isn't the stable non-isomer and a less stable isomer. It might help if you look up basic vocab before asking a question.



damn, still the same old asshole, look up basic vocabulary, huh? I forgot when i was a kid, and I learned to speak, and I had to ask my mom for a glass of milk, I needed to know what the steroisomer of calcium ascorbate or whatever was before she could give me a glass.

thanks for the information, it's very helpful on a serious note.


benzyme, does the steroisomerization of a molecule effect all psychoactives? are all psychoactives generally not isomers? and are the ones that are isomers if so not as potent as non-isomer psychoactives?


as for cloning, when you use radical cloning methods like taking cells and growing a plant from it, you can't pressure the process of cell growth into new plants to undergo enhanced evolutionary changes?

it would seem that a plant evolving it's genetics from a seed, wouldn't be as prone to change as a plant undergoing the stress of growing completely new from a few cells. I know a clone doesn't undergo genetic changes, but what about seeds from clones grown from severe stresses. it is a severely stressful situation to grow a plant entirely from a clone of plant cells, right?

can you tell me the name of this process?
 
benzyme
#29 Posted : 5/27/2008 2:11:33 PM

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imachavel wrote:
benzyme, does the steroisomerization of a molecule effect all psychoactives? are all psychoactives generally not isomers? and are the ones that are isomers if so not as potent as non-isomer psychoactives?


not all but many. like I mentioned, linear molecules do not necessarily have stereo orientation. binding specificity (due to stereo-config.) usually affects qualitative effects. consider: the enzymes which metabolize are tertiary (3-D) structures

imachavel wrote:
as for cloning, when you use radical cloning methods like taking cells and growing a plant from it, you can't pressure the process of cell growth into new plants to undergo enhanced evolutionary changes?

not sure what the exact term is, but that is a process of acclimation. a gene(s) may mutate to respond to environmental
stressors, but the genetic makeup is largely unchanged.


imachavel wrote:
it would seem that a plant evolving it's genetics from a seed, wouldn't be as prone to change as a plant undergoing the stress of growing completely new from a few cells. I know a clone doesn't undergo genetic changes, but what about seeds from clones grown from severe stresses. it is a severely stressful situation to grow a plant entirely from a clone of plant cells, right?

can you tell me the name of this process?


acclimation.
individuals acclimate, populations evolve.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
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