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Pharmahuasca Options
 
69ron
#41 Posted : 9/3/2008 2:29:32 AM

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I think these 'mystery jungle alkaloïds' also play a big part in it.

Also, I've always read that the harmala alkaloids work better when taken together than when taken as isolated compounds. For example, 100 mg of harmaline is about as potent as 200 mg of harmine, but 50 mg of harmaline taken with 100 mg of harmine is stronger than 100 mg of harmaline or 200 mg of harmine. Also, I’ve heard that THH is many times stronger when taken with harmine than if taken alone. So all the harmala alkaloids present could be making a big impact on the experience. Harmaline is the strongest MAOI of the bunch if taken alone, but if mixed with harmine, harmalol, and THH, it’s MAOI potency may very well jump through the roof requiring only minute amounts to be effective.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
burnt
#42 Posted : 10/24/2008 10:44:37 AM

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I have a dose question:

SWIM seeks low dose experience with pharmahuasca as it would be first time. Would about 150 mg of harmine extracted from rue and about 30mg DMT work for this? I think 150mg harmine was reported for maximum MAOI effect? SWIM checked the stuff analytically and its mostly harmine although SWIM is sure some harmaline is there too so according to what people say 100mg harmaline is enough and 200mg harmine is enough so would in the middle work 150mg?

How does the nausea compare with that of ayahuasca? SWIM has sensitive stomach when it comes to alkaloids.
 
lorax
#43 Posted : 10/24/2008 10:58:46 AM

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the key to minimal nausea is to keep the MAOi at threshhold level so that it does its job as a MAOi but doesnt produce any unwanted side effects. try 50mg harmine with 50mg DMT. be sure to use fumarate or citrate forms of dmt as the freebase comes on much too fast. salt forms are just nicer for ingestion. take the harmine capsule half an hour before the dmt capsule.

bon voyage
I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
 
lorax
#44 Posted : 10/24/2008 11:01:31 AM

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i've heard from quite a lot of people who use 50mg harmine with 100mg dmt for a very heavy trip. harmine just helps getting into the dreamworld.
I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues. And I'm asking you, sir, at the top if my lungs.. (all posts are fictional and are intended for entertainment purpose only)
 
burnt
#45 Posted : 10/24/2008 12:59:15 PM

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Thanks for advise but SWIM was under the impression that the doses needed for max MAOI for harmine are closer to about 150mg level not 50mg level.

SWIM doesn't want too strong DMT effect is the only difference between freebase and salts in the onset or the digestion?
 
Infundibulum
#46 Posted : 10/24/2008 1:45:22 PM

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Someone would advise 200mg of harmala alkaloids just to be sure.

SWIM never gets nausea even with 400-500mg, but that is just him. As far as dmt is concerned, the only time this guy did pharmahyasca it was with 400mg harmala alkaloids followed by 100mg freebase spice 40min later. The onset was after 2 hours (!) with extremely mild hallucinations (barely noticeable actually) which ended 30min later. So to speak, he could have been to work while on this pharmahuasca session and nobody would notice it nor anything would slow him down at all. But again, that's him.

SWIM has this weird feeling that salted dmt comes on faster than freebase but he still needs to try that out.


Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
burnt
#47 Posted : 10/24/2008 1:49:44 PM

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Ok SWIM will prepare 200mg doses of the MAOI and then start with low spice like 30-40mg about a half hour into the MAOI and work up a second dose later just to be safe if necessary. SWIM doesn't have time material to prepare salts at the moment will try next time and SWIM would prefer a slow onset. Sounds like a reasonable dose no?
 
Infundibulum
#48 Posted : 10/24/2008 2:30:23 PM

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Si!

Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
69ron
#49 Posted : 10/25/2008 4:06:26 AM

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DMT doses very a lot from person to person.

SWIM likes harmine. He normally uses 200 mg of freebase harmine, and he never gets nausea. He uses about 30 mg of DMT usually. For him that’s a very visionary dose without being too intense.

SWIM likes the effect harmine adds at 200 mg. 150 mg usually works as just an MAOI without adding too much to the trip.

It’s SWIM’s opinion that the oral DMT experience simply activated by MAOI is not nearly as nice. It’s like an acid trip, and is lacking in the spiritual department. For the best effects SWIM likes enough harmine to feel the harmine. Harmine adds a dreamy spiritual component that makes the DMT experience more like a mescaline experience and less like an acid trip. Harmine also does the same thing to acid, giving it a richer, deeper, more spiritual feel.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
burnt
#50 Posted : 10/27/2008 10:00:37 AM

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well two thumbs up for pharmahuasca Smile

200mg harmine HCl + 38mg DMT oral = very strong trip. Although next time SWIM would try less DMT found this a bit overwhelming but still very beautiful overall experience. SWIM got a little sick but SWIMs stomach is just like that no real vomit just a few urges too (thinks SWIM brain was thinking he was on ayahuasca again or something). thanks for all the advise!
 
amor_fati
#51 Posted : 11/2/2008 9:22:27 PM

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So SWIM wondering if anyone here has any good recommendations for DMT/Harmaline/Harmine/THH dosage ratios? This could be for oral/sublingual administration of salt forms or smoked freebase forms (apart from THH). How jungle-spice? In what ways would one implement that for pharmahuasca? SWIM's asking because he's had a lot of hit or miss experiences with it, though has yet to try THH or freebase harmala.
 
acolon_5
#52 Posted : 11/2/2008 10:56:11 PM

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69ron wrote:
DMT doses very a lot from person to person.

SWIM likes harmine. He normally uses 200 mg of freebase harmine, and he never gets nausea. He uses about 30 mg of DMT usually. For him that’s a very visionary dose without being too intense.



Wow, I don't get much of anything until about 100mgs, and for a fully visonairy experience I have had to push it up to 250mgs DMT.

This is with 300mgs of Manske extracted rue. People really do vary quite a bit on the oral DMT needed.
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I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.

I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
 
Otiliya
#53 Posted : 2/13/2009 1:40:49 AM

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69ron wrote:
I think these 'mystery jungle alkaloïds' also play a big part in it.

Also, I've always read that the harmala alkaloids work better when taken together than when taken as isolated compounds. For example, 100 mg of harmaline is about as potent as 200 mg of harmine, but 50 mg of harmaline taken with 100 mg of harmine is stronger than 100 mg of harmaline or 200 mg of harmine. Also, I’ve heard that THH is many times stronger when taken with harmine than if taken alone. So all the harmala alkaloids present could be making a big impact on the experience. Harmaline is the strongest MAOI of the bunch if taken alone, but if mixed with harmine, harmalol, and THH, it’s MAOI potency may very well jump through the roof requiring only minute amounts to be effective.

That's what i've read somewhere too, the synergy of all the MAOIs is more potent overall than seperate alkaloid. Wouldn't be better to make a rue tea then(pulverized seeds, cooked and drunk entirely), instead of extracting harmine? Or does tea make the brewer noticeably nauseous compared to extracted harmine?
 
Dwhitty76
#54 Posted : 2/13/2009 3:25:35 AM

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any recomedations on swims dosage.... He wants to capsule Harmaline,harmaline $ Thh and then wait till the maoi's kick in and smoke the dmt.

He still hasnt had the opportunity to mix maoi's w/dmt and is waiting for the rigt time.

He doesnt really want to injest the dmt....just because i've heard it can be a little unsettleing on the stomache but he wants to know a good ratio for the harmine,thh & harmaline...then the dosage on the smoked dmt.

Swim weighs about 170lbs.

I know dosages seem to vary fro person to person but any feedback on this method of injestion would be most helpful.
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coz42
#55 Posted : 2/13/2009 3:57:01 AM

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SWIM weighs about 180lb But doesn't really think weight really matters. He had different tests with harmine:harmaline:THH ratio completing visionary threshold at 50:50:120mg, give or take. Even with pure caapi extract, 250mg was all that was needed poured in a glass of boiled water along with a gram of citric acid, most likely wasn't neccessary. Possibly even less was necessary, but SWIM likes the body load for some reason or another..

You could lower the dose of harmine and ingest theobromine nibs or extracts to increase onset but cannot account for it (Don't know why he hasn't tried it yet.. its only chocolate.. Razz). But definitely could just capsulate them and down them or mix in a glass of water then follow up with smoking your less than normal 'breakthrough'... stuff.

"letsmokealotofdmt" wrote:
That's what i've read somewhere too, the synergy of all the MAOIs is more potent overall than seperate alkaloid. Wouldn't be better to make a rue tea then(pulverized seeds, cooked and drunk entirely), instead of extracting harmine? Or does tea make the brewer noticeably nauseous compared to extracted harmine?

Rue tea makes me personally vomit.

I do have a quick question about tribulus terrestris though. I'm aware of the fruits being widely available, but I have also have run into dietary supplements labeled "Tribulus" at the vitamin shoppe and over the web as well. Would anyone know what exactly is in these supplements and if it would inhibit MAOI-A? I already have enough testosterone to kick a mule halfway across a soccer field so I'm not looking for a libido enhancement.
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Dwhitty76
#56 Posted : 2/13/2009 4:18:30 AM

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coz42 wrote:
SWIM weighs about 180lb But doesn't really think weight really matters. He had different tests with harmine:harmaline:THH ratio completing visionary threshold at 50:50:120mg, give or take. Even with pure caapi extract, 250mg was all that was needed poured in a glass of boiled water along with a gram of citric acid, most likely wasn't neccessary. Possibly even less was necessary, but SWIM likes the body load for some reason or another..


Thanx, i got a couple more questions for you,if you dont mind.

So...swiy did 50/50mg harmine/harmaline w/ 120mg of THH, in boiling water?

How long did he wait to blast of 30 - 45min?

How much spice was smoked and what were the effects like (duration/intensity)?
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69ron
#57 Posted : 2/13/2009 6:00:39 AM

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coz42 wrote:
"letsmokealotofdmt" wrote:
That's what i've read somewhere too, the synergy of all the MAOIs is more potent overall than seperate alkaloid. Wouldn't be better to make a rue tea then(pulverized seeds, cooked and drunk entirely), instead of extracting harmine? Or does tea make the brewer noticeably nauseous compared to extracted harmine?

Rue tea makes me personally vomit.


Keep in mind that rue contains some undesirable alkaloids in addition to the harmala alkaloids. It’s also hard to digest. An extract is definitely much better on the stomach. You’re far less likely to get stomach problems from the pure alkaloids. I think the best approach is to mix harmaline, harmine, and THH in varying amounts to get the mix just right. I think each person will have their own mix that they find best.

For SWIM, he usually likes it very high in THH and uses harmine and harmaline as boosters only.

SWIM would also like to try adding harmalol to the mix but can’t find a supplier for it anymore. The one time SWIM tried harmalol, he got mild psilocybin like effects from it and was quite impressed.

Also, SWIM has gotten visuals from JUST THH. At 300 mg orally, during the peak, it was like a mild ayahuasca experience. There were very mild DMT-like visual presents, mostly seen in the dark, and a lot of sparkly visuals seen in the dark. I think it might be possible to have visions on a high dose of THH alone.
PLEASE DO NOT PM ME.
I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
amor_fati
#58 Posted : 2/13/2009 6:15:59 AM

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Ground up rue almost always sends SWIM to a very uncomfortable place.
 
soulfood
#59 Posted : 2/14/2009 6:00:20 PM

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SWIM is currently doing a simultaneous harmala hcl and a dmt fumerate extraction in the hope of having a pharmahuasca session with a friend in a week or so. His only problem is that he doesnt have any scales to weigh the substances. SWIM knows that eye-balling such substances could go very wrong, so he was wondering what the saturation limits of these substances were in water?

One issue however is that SWIM has done a none discriminate rue extraction and all the alkaloids will be present in the final batch.

So is SWIM's water idea feasible or should he wait a little longer until he has the relevant equipment?
 
Garulfo
#60 Posted : 2/14/2009 10:08:58 PM

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Quote:
So is SWIM's water idea feasible or should he wait a little longer until he has the relevant equipment?


For a pharmauasca, I would say yes, you need a small scale. It's quite cheap on the well known online auction site.
Eyeballing stuff that will stay active for hours in your system is not something SWIM would do.
 
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